Stapleford & Flying Time
Stapleford & Flying Time
Hi
I have been looking for somewhere to do my JAA ME/IR then later CPL and all this will be part time. I have narrowed it down to either Stapleford or Flying Time Aviation at Shoreham. I have read lots of comments on Stapleford but there doesn't appear to be much on Flying Time.
As people usually just comment on the negatives and not the positives this may not be a bad thing but I would be interested in hearing of anyones experiences with either of them, especially people that have done their training part time.
Regards
I have been looking for somewhere to do my JAA ME/IR then later CPL and all this will be part time. I have narrowed it down to either Stapleford or Flying Time Aviation at Shoreham. I have read lots of comments on Stapleford but there doesn't appear to be much on Flying Time.
As people usually just comment on the negatives and not the positives this may not be a bad thing but I would be interested in hearing of anyones experiences with either of them, especially people that have done their training part time.
Regards
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I'm starting with Flying Time part time end of the month for the ME/IR. You probably won't hear as much about it as Stapleford because it's a lot newer FTO and from the research i did, you are right, there isn't as many reviews but the ones that there have been aren't negative. Its a name thats getting bigger.
I chose FT as I live closer to Shoreham, the training schedule is entirely customed around my shift roster at work and i've trained out of Shoreham for most of my training. The simulator is next to brand new, DA42s are in good condition, they make sure to match you with the right instructor, first impressions are professional and any questions you have they answer open, honestly and realistically. A lot of big names are down Shoreham in the GA world, its more about who you know these days it seems and thats the place to meet them.
Flying wise, from experiences of others, they've got done what needs to be done from them, you get out of it what you put in.
I chose FT as I live closer to Shoreham, the training schedule is entirely customed around my shift roster at work and i've trained out of Shoreham for most of my training. The simulator is next to brand new, DA42s are in good condition, they make sure to match you with the right instructor, first impressions are professional and any questions you have they answer open, honestly and realistically. A lot of big names are down Shoreham in the GA world, its more about who you know these days it seems and thats the place to meet them.
Flying wise, from experiences of others, they've got done what needs to be done from them, you get out of it what you put in.
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Hi felixflyer, if your training part time I would also consider how long it takes you to travel to either Shoreham or Stapleford in making your decision. You will be making the journey a lot.
Thankls for the replies.
To be honest they are both about the same distance from me and are both top of my list of schools. I just cannot decide between the two. I will be visiting both in the near future but am interested in any comments.
Regards
To be honest they are both about the same distance from me and are both top of my list of schools. I just cannot decide between the two. I will be visiting both in the near future but am interested in any comments.
Regards
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Currently looking at Flying Time and BCFT for CPL onwards. Similarly placed with regards to price but I quite like FT more modern fleet of DA40/42 aircraft. Lack of nav aids at Shoreham however could prove costly during the IR having to go elsewhere.
Has anyone recently been to the above organization? If so what are your thoughts?
Has anyone recently been to the above organization? If so what are your thoughts?
I'd be asking what their First Time and First Series pass rates are like too.
Depending on your timescale, it's worth noting that Shoreham are potentially losing their ATC (and with it the GPS and NDB approaches) which may colour your choice.
Depending on your timescale, it's worth noting that Shoreham are potentially losing their ATC (and with it the GPS and NDB approaches) which may colour your choice.
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I know for a fact Flying Time have pretty poor first time pass rates... However this isn't helped by the fact they attract a lot of foreign students who have the obvious language barrier, so for an English speaking chap this shouldn't be a problem.
Certainly things to consider are Shoreham charges for landing fee's, approaches, touch and go's on top of your flying training which over time will certainly add up. With Stapleford this are all included. Also the test centre being Bournemouth (EGHH) is 30 minutes flying away so each trip will be £300 at least! As said previously, losing the navaids and approaches at Shm will somewhat affect IR training, however Stapleford do not have any approaches or navaids either.
Stapleford have been going a long time, and have a very good reputation and also links with possible recruiters. Their instructors are very experienced too. I think you'll find with Flying Time, certainly 2 of the younger instructors have relatively low hours and haven't ever operated commercially, having only completed their training in the last few years. Questions you must ask!
If you want reliable training and reputation PAT at Bournemouth have a very good reputation with the CAA with excellent pass marks, the training is done on the conventional Duchess which many employers rate a pilots ability to operate a conventional twin with many levers and dials, it's a lot easier to do a DA42 check out later than the other way round to get glass experience.
Good luck with your decision.
S.
Certainly things to consider are Shoreham charges for landing fee's, approaches, touch and go's on top of your flying training which over time will certainly add up. With Stapleford this are all included. Also the test centre being Bournemouth (EGHH) is 30 minutes flying away so each trip will be £300 at least! As said previously, losing the navaids and approaches at Shm will somewhat affect IR training, however Stapleford do not have any approaches or navaids either.
Stapleford have been going a long time, and have a very good reputation and also links with possible recruiters. Their instructors are very experienced too. I think you'll find with Flying Time, certainly 2 of the younger instructors have relatively low hours and haven't ever operated commercially, having only completed their training in the last few years. Questions you must ask!
If you want reliable training and reputation PAT at Bournemouth have a very good reputation with the CAA with excellent pass marks, the training is done on the conventional Duchess which many employers rate a pilots ability to operate a conventional twin with many levers and dials, it's a lot easier to do a DA42 check out later than the other way round to get glass experience.
Good luck with your decision.
S.
Thanks for all the replies and PM's.
The reason for choosing the DA42 was due to the fact that I am doing it part time and by choosing what many have told me is an easier route, this will hopefully make up for the fact that I will be having longer breaks between sorties.
The reason for choosing the DA42 was due to the fact that I am doing it part time and by choosing what many have told me is an easier route, this will hopefully make up for the fact that I will be having longer breaks between sorties.
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I did MECPL with Flying Time last year and they were excellent. High standard of aircraft and knowledgeable instructors, they looked after me well and always sought to accomodate any requirements even though very busy.
Can't recommend them highly enough.
Can't recommend them highly enough.
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I've heard good things about flying time but honestly would use PAT at Bournemouth anytime as they have, in my opinion, outstanding training and 1st time passes. Personally I hated my time there but on reflection that was my issue and the training was top notch. Not in a glass cockpit though but I think if you can do it in the dials a glass cockpit would be a breeze
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Too be honest it was my state of mind, I was trying to run a business and do my cpl/Ir at the same time and I couldn't give it 100%. It turned out fine because of the quality of the training, nothing to do with anything bad at PAT and I think at any other organization I would have struggled much much more and I take my hat off to them for that. They treat you rough but get you through and that is what really matters which makes them great value for money in my humble opinion
If you are seriously considering doing your cpl, ir or both in my experience you will not be disappointed in the long run if you go there. The stats speak for themselves and as a PAT vet I will vouch for them anytime
If you are seriously considering doing your cpl, ir or both in my experience you will not be disappointed in the long run if you go there. The stats speak for themselves and as a PAT vet I will vouch for them anytime
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Stapleford have been going a long time, and have a very good reputation and also links with possible recruiters.
The only link that they did have was with a chap in recruitment at FR, but he quit that job and did the training himself to be a pilot, and is now flying for FR, so Stapleford no longer have any links what so ever. This is something I found really strange considering I think they are considered one of the Big 4 in the UK. I would like to think that the HOT would out there "selling" the school and the students to airline recruitment managers to try and get people placed, like the bigger more expensive schools, but alas is appears not.
That's probably why they are so much cheaper though, as they have no links, and once you have passed, you're on your own with regards to finding a job.
Whether you think the extra cost saving over one of the bigger schools is worth it though, to potentially be out of a job for longer at the end of training, as opposed to being employed sooner, and being higher up the seniority list, being promoted quicker and earning more for longer is something only you can work out yourself.
Personally, if I were thinking of starting training, these would also be questions I'd be asking a school, as it seems that the only people that are regularly securing employment at the moment are the chaps that have been through CTC or Oxford.
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FYI, having been involved in the ATC issue at Shoreham, I've now been personally notified by airport management that the ATC will remain and I assume the IR procedures for the airport too.
The problem with CTC and Oxford is that it's their business to have links with as many airlines/companies as possible, but for a price - therefore leaving little options/difficulty in getting that first job for people like myself doing modular with other FTOs. An MCC at CTC is £7000 from what I've been told and then another £10k for a TR - that's IF you get a first time pass in the IR, otherwise you don't meet their requirements.
Either way if you want to get into an airline, you’re going to have to be extremely lucky to find that right job, or pay ££££ for it. .... and if you don't meet their standard whilst doing an MCC or TR, I bet you won't be supported by CTC/an airline any longer, but I bet they'll quite happily take you're money though.
Don't you just love this world.
Nukehunt, I agree with you totally, but depending on personal circumstances, from day 1 that immediately limits your options of employment after training, depending on how you did it, with what FTO and obviously the health of the industry/economy.
Saying that I've been told some companies aren't bothered and only looking that you have the qualifications, but I guess it's down to who you work for in the end.
All I know is that I've done it the best way I could have done it and given it my best shot and hopefully some light will emerge at the end of the training tunnel.
When considering Flying Time and Stapleford; if you look at Flying Time's website, you'll see that their CPL/ME/IR price "includes" landing fees etc, just not the CAA test/exam fees, which is standard for any college.
Shoreham does have an NDB, which is used for IMC/IR training for holding patterns and approaches. Does Stapleford have any Nav aid?
I believe both Stapleford and Flying Time will require you to fly away to the "test airfield".
Stapleford has more of a history, which seems to be a positive one.
...then Bournemouth, everything on site i.e. Nav aids, professional ATC, test at airfield (something that I prefer). Having trained in an ATC environment I would prefer potentially Bournemouth as my option, I would feel that A/G would be a step back rather than a step forward, but we're all different.
The problem with CTC and Oxford is that it's their business to have links with as many airlines/companies as possible, but for a price - therefore leaving little options/difficulty in getting that first job for people like myself doing modular with other FTOs. An MCC at CTC is £7000 from what I've been told and then another £10k for a TR - that's IF you get a first time pass in the IR, otherwise you don't meet their requirements.
Either way if you want to get into an airline, you’re going to have to be extremely lucky to find that right job, or pay ££££ for it. .... and if you don't meet their standard whilst doing an MCC or TR, I bet you won't be supported by CTC/an airline any longer, but I bet they'll quite happily take you're money though.
Don't you just love this world.
Nukehunt, I agree with you totally, but depending on personal circumstances, from day 1 that immediately limits your options of employment after training, depending on how you did it, with what FTO and obviously the health of the industry/economy.
Saying that I've been told some companies aren't bothered and only looking that you have the qualifications, but I guess it's down to who you work for in the end.
All I know is that I've done it the best way I could have done it and given it my best shot and hopefully some light will emerge at the end of the training tunnel.
When considering Flying Time and Stapleford; if you look at Flying Time's website, you'll see that their CPL/ME/IR price "includes" landing fees etc, just not the CAA test/exam fees, which is standard for any college.
Shoreham does have an NDB, which is used for IMC/IR training for holding patterns and approaches. Does Stapleford have any Nav aid?
I believe both Stapleford and Flying Time will require you to fly away to the "test airfield".
Stapleford has more of a history, which seems to be a positive one.
...then Bournemouth, everything on site i.e. Nav aids, professional ATC, test at airfield (something that I prefer). Having trained in an ATC environment I would prefer potentially Bournemouth as my option, I would feel that A/G would be a step back rather than a step forward, but we're all different.
Last edited by Cirrus_Clouds; 25th Feb 2011 at 17:57.
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I went to Stapleford few months ago and they came across as professional. Simulator can be used as both Boeing or Seneca and instructors were honest and very knowledgeable. I couldn’t start the training due to personal circumstances but they definitely know their job.
