Check Rides with renting a plane
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Check Rides with renting a plane
Hi everyone,
I was curious as to whether I would need a check ride if I were to rent a plane from a flying club? I have a CPL with 200 hrs flying time and about 80 hrs sim time.
Would be great to hear from both sides of the Atlantic.
Thanks
I was curious as to whether I would need a check ride if I were to rent a plane from a flying club? I have a CPL with 200 hrs flying time and about 80 hrs sim time.
Would be great to hear from both sides of the Atlantic.
Thanks
Put it this way, if you owned an aeroplane, and someone asked you if they could rent it and fly it away, would you just hand over the keys or would you rather satisfy yourself that there was a good chance of getting it back in one piece with the engine undamaged?
I doubt any club/organisaton would let you turn up and take off with no assessment of your abilities, certainly none I have known over the years.
I doubt any club/organisaton would let you turn up and take off with no assessment of your abilities, certainly none I have known over the years.
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my thought was legally you are allowed to as long as you had 3 take offs and 3 landings in the previous 3 months on that type so that should show that you are competent and current.
another one was if you have had a check ride with one company to rent their plane, do u then have to have another check ride if you go to another flying club?
I can understand where you are coming from with your comment though, however if someone has a lot of experience it is a waste of money for that person and puts them off renting. This is something I have found from speaking with numerous people.
another one was if you have had a check ride with one company to rent their plane, do u then have to have another check ride if you go to another flying club?
I can understand where you are coming from with your comment though, however if someone has a lot of experience it is a waste of money for that person and puts them off renting. This is something I have found from speaking with numerous people.
I have a JAA CPL, plus an FAA PPL and have been flying for 21 years.
In that time, I think there have been three occasions where I've been allowed to rent an aeroplane without a checkout. On each of those - all in the UK and since I passed four figures in my logbook, I produced logbook evidence that I was very recent on the same type somewhere else and was known by professional reputation.
Given your minimal experience and hours, I'd not expect any slack at all in your case. This is exaccerbated by the fact that your profile suggests you trained recently by the integrated route, and so probably have limited experience of real light aircraft operations, so rather more than a simple checkout is likely to be required. There's also issues of local airfield / club practices that you need to be familiarised with, and clearly they need to be happy that you can fly as well.
Sorry old chap, but that's just how it is.
G
In that time, I think there have been three occasions where I've been allowed to rent an aeroplane without a checkout. On each of those - all in the UK and since I passed four figures in my logbook, I produced logbook evidence that I was very recent on the same type somewhere else and was known by professional reputation.
Given your minimal experience and hours, I'd not expect any slack at all in your case. This is exaccerbated by the fact that your profile suggests you trained recently by the integrated route, and so probably have limited experience of real light aircraft operations, so rather more than a simple checkout is likely to be required. There's also issues of local airfield / club practices that you need to be familiarised with, and clearly they need to be happy that you can fly as well.
Sorry old chap, but that's just how it is.
G
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Thanks for the response Genghis,
You are right, I did go along the integrated route.
I can understand where the flying clubs come from on this matter as they want to protect their investment. If flying clubs recognised each other though and the checks that each one does then this would save people such as yourself who obviously has done a lot of flying a lot of hassle and expense.
Say if I these flying clubs were part of a membership, a society that if you flew with one of these members then you wouldnt need to do a check ride if you then flew with another member.
I am not however advocating that these clubs let anyone fly a plane solo. We want to keep the skies safe after all!
You are right, I did go along the integrated route.
I can understand where the flying clubs come from on this matter as they want to protect their investment. If flying clubs recognised each other though and the checks that each one does then this would save people such as yourself who obviously has done a lot of flying a lot of hassle and expense.
Say if I these flying clubs were part of a membership, a society that if you flew with one of these members then you wouldnt need to do a check ride if you then flew with another member.
I am not however advocating that these clubs let anyone fly a plane solo. We want to keep the skies safe after all!
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by the way, I wasnt speaking of myself in thinking that I have a lot of experience. I recognise that 200 hours it at the very bottom of the scale and there is a long way to go yet.
I can see where you're coming from, but a lot of it is about locality, and there's no minimum length of checkout.
I've done checkouts which were essential a wide circuit, and others that went to a couple of hours. Standards are not universal, but equally aeroplanes vary a lot, and so do airfields. I recall a very long checkout for example at Long Beach - which was about 10 minutes to see if I could handle the aeroplane, and a couple of hours teaching me to deal with the local (and horrible) procedures and airspace. It might also cover some unusual instruments in the aeroplane, local noise avoidance rules, refuelling practices and suchlike.
So, to be honest, no I can't see checkout-free rental happening very often, in any club or at any airfield.
G
I've done checkouts which were essential a wide circuit, and others that went to a couple of hours. Standards are not universal, but equally aeroplanes vary a lot, and so do airfields. I recall a very long checkout for example at Long Beach - which was about 10 minutes to see if I could handle the aeroplane, and a couple of hours teaching me to deal with the local (and horrible) procedures and airspace. It might also cover some unusual instruments in the aeroplane, local noise avoidance rules, refuelling practices and suchlike.
So, to be honest, no I can't see checkout-free rental happening very often, in any club or at any airfield.
G
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If for the UK something was able to happen, would it be something you and your colleagues would be interested in?
Ie paying an annual membership where you would be able to rent the planes in the UK subject to certain conditions?
1: you are legally current on the aircraft
2: you flew with another member of this group in those 3 months as a check
3: you provide logbook evidence to the flying club
Ie paying an annual membership where you would be able to rent the planes in the UK subject to certain conditions?
1: you are legally current on the aircraft
2: you flew with another member of this group in those 3 months as a check
3: you provide logbook evidence to the flying club
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It may also depend on the stipulations under the school's insurance policy.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
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Thats very true on the rule for passengers, but I am also thinking of the minimums of what flying clubs will want and what many peope rent planes for, enjoyment to share with their friends and family.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Cloud, as you've gathered, you'll need to do a check ride.
So, rather than "fight" the process just make sure you know as much as you can about the a/c.
You'll enjoy it and definitely use it as a chance to learn stuff.
So, rather than "fight" the process just make sure you know as much as you can about the a/c.
You'll enjoy it and definitely use it as a chance to learn stuff.
I have done a lot of renter check outs over the years. Some of the least fun have been with new CPL's from College programs ( the Canadian equivalent of UK integrated programs) who have drunk the school cool aid and think they know everything because they are a product of the XXXXXX school program. I remember one young sky god that was horrified that he was actually required to fuel the aircraft himself and just could not just tell the dispatcher what fuel load he required 
My experience is the length (and therefore the cost) of the checkout was directly related to the amount of preparation the person put in. Those that made an effort to learn the club procedures, review the airspace, had a good handle on the POH and kept their ears open and their mouth shut usually had a pretty quick check. I, however had no problem putting the boots to those who kept on saying "but that's not the way we did it at XXXX"
My experience is the length (and therefore the cost) of the checkout was directly related to the amount of preparation the person put in. Those that made an effort to learn the club procedures, review the airspace, had a good handle on the POH and kept their ears open and their mouth shut usually had a pretty quick check. I, however had no problem putting the boots to those who kept on saying "but that's not the way we did it at XXXX"
Last edited by Big Pistons Forever; 17th Jan 2011 at 04:31.
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some valid points there.
Personally after going through the integrated route, I cannot afford to do fly for enjoyment at the moment, I need to save up to pay back the loan. Is it ideal, no, but its a choice I made to get into the airlines and I dont regret it for one minute. Fingers crossed come the summer my log book will be used again.
This thread was to find out what others thought about this idea as I was thinking of putting together a proposal for the flying clubs. One very valid point that was mentioned was that no two aerodromes are the same and of course there are danger areas around that people need to made aware of which is what the check rides are for.
You are very right though, you get out what you put in, and I have trained with enough people to realise that if you dont work hard, you dont get the results, that comes to both flying and everything.
Personally after going through the integrated route, I cannot afford to do fly for enjoyment at the moment, I need to save up to pay back the loan. Is it ideal, no, but its a choice I made to get into the airlines and I dont regret it for one minute. Fingers crossed come the summer my log book will be used again.
This thread was to find out what others thought about this idea as I was thinking of putting together a proposal for the flying clubs. One very valid point that was mentioned was that no two aerodromes are the same and of course there are danger areas around that people need to made aware of which is what the check rides are for.
You are very right though, you get out what you put in, and I have trained with enough people to realise that if you dont work hard, you dont get the results, that comes to both flying and everything.
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Just check and make sure you have a SEP class rating on your license.
You won't be the first or last to presume you can fly a SEP when you haven't been issued with the class rating on your CPL.
You won't be the first or last to presume you can fly a SEP when you haven't been issued with the class rating on your CPL.
Cloud 9, it may not be loggable, but there's a spare seats sticky at the top of the private flying forum. You could do worse than post your details on there, and then keep monitoring it.
Once you've got a firm operating base for your airline flying however, almost certainly your best long term option is to buy a cheap share nearby. Hunt around and you can, particularly through LAA, get shares under £1k then as little as £45/£45 for a simple SEP.
G
Once you've got a firm operating base for your airline flying however, almost certainly your best long term option is to buy a cheap share nearby. Hunt around and you can, particularly through LAA, get shares under £1k then as little as £45/£45 for a simple SEP.
G
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My club has a 6-week pic rule which is apparently a compromise between those who favoured a 4-week rule and those for an 8-week rule.
The airport lies between two much busier airports and although not complicated really the surrounding airspace is the most complicated north the M6.
Since joining I've flown every month but have twice needed a club check out because of the rule and on both occasions I have spotted significant errors on my part. On one occasion I even "turned-down" my sign-off and the next flight was also with an instructor by my own choice because of poor circuit performance.
As people have said if it isn't your aircraft then who can blame anyone for checking you out!
The airport lies between two much busier airports and although not complicated really the surrounding airspace is the most complicated north the M6.
Since joining I've flown every month but have twice needed a club check out because of the rule and on both occasions I have spotted significant errors on my part. On one occasion I even "turned-down" my sign-off and the next flight was also with an instructor by my own choice because of poor circuit performance.
As people have said if it isn't your aircraft then who can blame anyone for checking you out!
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To be honest though a 200 hour intergrated bod has zero true PIC time everything they do is with someone looking over there shoulder signing them out constantly.
In some ways a home grown PPL student has more of a clue about go/no go PIC skills with 50 hours post PPL under thier belt than a 200 hour Int CPL.
The flying procedures you have been taught alot of them are inapproprate and are used as a stepping stone towards IFR flight and operating. eg always using PAPI's and 3 deg glides.
Most instructors I know give the intergrated pilots more of a going over than a PPL mainly because through experence we know the amount of pish they have been taught in relation to flying a SEP. So I think it will be a cold day in hell before an Intergrated grad will be able to walk up to a flying school and not get checked out and more than likely retrained.
In some ways a home grown PPL student has more of a clue about go/no go PIC skills with 50 hours post PPL under thier belt than a 200 hour Int CPL.
The flying procedures you have been taught alot of them are inapproprate and are used as a stepping stone towards IFR flight and operating. eg always using PAPI's and 3 deg glides.
Most instructors I know give the intergrated pilots more of a going over than a PPL mainly because through experence we know the amount of pish they have been taught in relation to flying a SEP. So I think it will be a cold day in hell before an Intergrated grad will be able to walk up to a flying school and not get checked out and more than likely retrained.
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In some ways a home grown PPL student has more of a clue about go/no go PIC skills with 50 hours post PPL under thier belt than a 200 hour Int CPL.
Integrated students have to remember that their course isn't designed for them to rent an aircraft privately post completion of the course.
To add my 2p : Ex OAA students need the most work out of any school - mainly due to the fact that they have in house examining which has led to a dramatic drop in standards - particuarly the CPL.
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To add my 2p : Ex OAA students need the most work out of any school - mainly due to the fact that they have in house examining which has led to a dramatic drop in standards - particuarly the CPL.