ME CPL - How viable?
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Joined: May 2008
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From: UK
ME CPL - How viable?
Originally I was considering doing a SE CPL, with all 25hrs on a complex single. However, I think I might go for the 28hr ME CPL and some places I've looked at do 20hrs on a 152 followed by 8hrs ME. Do people think this is enough preparation to be able to pass the test or is it likely to need more multi time?
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Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
Most expert advice seems to be that it's cheaper and easier to go SE/CPL then do the ME separately. You'll need to demonstrate the highest standards in the relatively simple and inexpensive complex SEP, then just do an MEP conversion within the school.
G
G
Joined: Jun 1999
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From: In the SIM
Be a bit careful with this mate. I am not sure what PA28 Nearly There used, if it was a complex, like an arrow, there is an advantage in this.
Depending on how much complex experience you have will dictate on how well you get on with the twin. I must admit, I have not flown the Twinstar, but I have heard from people who have flown it, it is a little more straight forward that a conventional complex, due to the fact is as a FADEC etc.
From my own experience, I would look at doing as much time in a single complex as possible, 10 to 15 hours seems to work quite well. If you have no complex time at all, going straight from a C152 onto a twin is a big jump, and if you start to require any additional hours in the twin, it will put a big dent in the bank balance, as most twin hire these days is £300 plus per hour.
Just something to think about. Enjoy the course.
Depending on how much complex experience you have will dictate on how well you get on with the twin. I must admit, I have not flown the Twinstar, but I have heard from people who have flown it, it is a little more straight forward that a conventional complex, due to the fact is as a FADEC etc.
From my own experience, I would look at doing as much time in a single complex as possible, 10 to 15 hours seems to work quite well. If you have no complex time at all, going straight from a C152 onto a twin is a big jump, and if you start to require any additional hours in the twin, it will put a big dent in the bank balance, as most twin hire these days is £300 plus per hour.
Just something to think about. Enjoy the course.
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: EGYD
Too add my 2p:
Completing a ME CPL with only 8 hours in a multi requires a well above ability and you'd have to be in the top 10-15% of ability to do so.
Imagine the course like this:
You have to learn the commerical course in the single.
You then have to learnto fly the multi
You then have to learn to fly the multi commercially.
The ME(P) class rating alone is 6 hours so that oinly leaves 2 hours of Commercial ME training - which normally is just a 170 (pre-test stage check)
That's just not enough time for an everage or even slightly above average student to learn the required skills then be able to apply and correlate them.
I would recommend any student considering the ME CPL to do more multi engine hours. Ask the school if they will do a discount for a all in the multi engine CPL course - some schools will reduce the price a little if you do.
Completing a ME CPL with only 8 hours in a multi requires a well above ability and you'd have to be in the top 10-15% of ability to do so.
Imagine the course like this:
You have to learn the commerical course in the single.
You then have to learnto fly the multi
You then have to learn to fly the multi commercially.
The ME(P) class rating alone is 6 hours so that oinly leaves 2 hours of Commercial ME training - which normally is just a 170 (pre-test stage check)
That's just not enough time for an everage or even slightly above average student to learn the required skills then be able to apply and correlate them.
I would recommend any student considering the ME CPL to do more multi engine hours. Ask the school if they will do a discount for a all in the multi engine CPL course - some schools will reduce the price a little if you do.
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Twickenham
BigGrecian, good points - speaking as someone about to do their CPL and ME/IR, how is that different to doing a SE CPL and then ME/IR? Surely that's 6 hours MEP training and then the joys of the IR, which if stories are to be believed is tougher than the CPL?
Is it just that 50-55 hours of flying on the IR gets you familiar with flying ME whereas 25 hours on the CPL doesn't?
I have a feeling I'm asking the bloody obvious!
Is it just that 50-55 hours of flying on the IR gets you familiar with flying ME whereas 25 hours on the CPL doesn't?
I have a feeling I'm asking the bloody obvious!
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: Hoylake
Cat3c is was a diesel pa28 that was used for the initial 20hours, fadec again.
Big Grecian,thanks for putting me in the top 10% but I do wonder regarding your figures there!
The school I went to (Halfpenny Green Flight Centre) for the CPL/ME had around 6 others also doing the same course, everyone passed no problems in min time, the DA42 helps though, although having said that I have just renewed my IR/ME 1hr25min in an Aztec, never flown one before and not flown ME/IR since the initial test 3 years ago.
The aztec was nice to fly, but if you have the option of one or a DA42, then personaly I would pick the DA42 for this course.
Big Grecian,thanks for putting me in the top 10% but I do wonder regarding your figures there!
The school I went to (Halfpenny Green Flight Centre) for the CPL/ME had around 6 others also doing the same course, everyone passed no problems in min time, the DA42 helps though, although having said that I have just renewed my IR/ME 1hr25min in an Aztec, never flown one before and not flown ME/IR since the initial test 3 years ago.
The aztec was nice to fly, but if you have the option of one or a DA42, then personaly I would pick the DA42 for this course.
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: UK, mainly
Having done a ME-CPL myself and now a CPL & ME instructor: it's not that big a challenge as long as you've got the right mindset. 20 hours in a simple single is about teaching you to operate commercially - so being able to navigate expeditiously (the speed isn't really that relevant, by the end of that phase you should have a sound technique that works at any speed), get your instrument flying skills up to scratch, and practice things like stall setups to remove any uncertainties before flying the twin. That way 8 hours on the ME aircraft is indeed a 6 hour MEP course + 170A, and should be achievable in that timescale.
Perhaps the best way to judge this is to ask your chosen FTO how many of their students complete the course in minimum hours with first time passes? The organisation I trained at and started instructing at would have viewed any overrun on course hours as signs of a potential issue, either with instructional technique or with the candidate's own standards. Please don't do the course part time and expect to cover it in minimum hours, currency is a vital part...
Perhaps the best way to judge this is to ask your chosen FTO how many of their students complete the course in minimum hours with first time passes? The organisation I trained at and started instructing at would have viewed any overrun on course hours as signs of a potential issue, either with instructional technique or with the candidate's own standards. Please don't do the course part time and expect to cover it in minimum hours, currency is a vital part...
