Aerobatics!
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Aerobatics!
Hi, i am nearing the end of the ATPL exams and will be looking to go hours building either at the end of this year or the start of next. I am contemplating the idea of doing an aerobatics course for some enjoyment after the hard slog of the written exams. Basically i was wondering what the general consensus of an aerobatics rating is in the airline industry? Ie. do they look favourably on it as an extra qualification?
Also, if anyone has any previous experience of this course could they gave me a heads-up as to what it entails and suggets a possible school for it?
Many Thanks in advance!
Also, if anyone has any previous experience of this course could they gave me a heads-up as to what it entails and suggets a possible school for it?
Many Thanks in advance!
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I may be completely off the mark here, but I'm pretty sure I read something a couple of years ago that said private jet firms send a lot of their pilots off to do aerobatic training.
I'm pretty sure Leading Edge (at Cumbernauld and Perth) done an aerobatic course, I would also check with Prestwick Flight Centre/Flying club because a number of their members are part of display teams flying aircraft like Chipmunks, Yaks etc.
I'm pretty sure Leading Edge (at Cumbernauld and Perth) done an aerobatic course, I would also check with Prestwick Flight Centre/Flying club because a number of their members are part of display teams flying aircraft like Chipmunks, Yaks etc.
G'day 757_wannabe,
I live on the other side of the planet to you and so don't really know what the employment scene is where you are but I can make a few general comments.
Aeros are fun though also hard work, any sort of advanced manouvre training will give you confidence in your ability to fly an aeroplane in all aspects of flight including recovery from unusual situations and so is valuable experience.
Make sure that when you do your aerobatics course that some sort of advanced manouvre training is included. I've just done a quick google search and there appear to be plenty of schools which can give you this sort of training.
I've been in an airline for over 20 years and we have to do unusual attitude recovery (UA) in the simulator, as a regulatory requirement, every so often. Aeros and UAs are something that simulators don't simulate very well at all and to my mind it's a bit farsical teaching and training this stuff in the sim. I have the advantage of having previously been in the RAAF for many years where UA recovery in a real aeroplane was a significant part of the training so anything like this you can do in an aeroplane will have a career long advantage.
Enjoy the ride,
BH.
I live on the other side of the planet to you and so don't really know what the employment scene is where you are but I can make a few general comments.
Aeros are fun though also hard work, any sort of advanced manouvre training will give you confidence in your ability to fly an aeroplane in all aspects of flight including recovery from unusual situations and so is valuable experience.
Make sure that when you do your aerobatics course that some sort of advanced manouvre training is included. I've just done a quick google search and there appear to be plenty of schools which can give you this sort of training.
I've been in an airline for over 20 years and we have to do unusual attitude recovery (UA) in the simulator, as a regulatory requirement, every so often. Aeros and UAs are something that simulators don't simulate very well at all and to my mind it's a bit farsical teaching and training this stuff in the sim. I have the advantage of having previously been in the RAAF for many years where UA recovery in a real aeroplane was a significant part of the training so anything like this you can do in an aeroplane will have a career long advantage.
Enjoy the ride,
BH.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Do the airlines in the UK desire aerobatics?
Not really.
However, what'll it do for your confidence and skills is incredible. Also, it may give you something to talk about in the interview. Especially if you continue to do aerobatic flying once you're flying professionally.
I don't do aerobatics, my husband used to do them in Australia. To be honest, the only flying I would entertain in the UK is something like aerobatics or floats. Doing xcountry flying would feel like work but a lot slower.
NetJets Europe sent their cadets on an aerobatic course.
Not really.
However, what'll it do for your confidence and skills is incredible. Also, it may give you something to talk about in the interview. Especially if you continue to do aerobatic flying once you're flying professionally.
I don't do aerobatics, my husband used to do them in Australia. To be honest, the only flying I would entertain in the UK is something like aerobatics or floats. Doing xcountry flying would feel like work but a lot slower.
NetJets Europe sent their cadets on an aerobatic course.
As an airline pilot with a aerobatic instructors rating and 10 years of aerobatic flying under my belt I can tell you first of all UK airlines don't give a dam, in fact they probably would not know what an aerobatic rating is if it came through their letter box as most airline recruitment is now done by cabin crew on maternity leave or HR people who are more interested in your ability to be shafted by very poor working conditions roster/pay paying for training bla bla bla.
If I were chief pilot of Pizza Express Airlines I would send all my pilots on an aerobatic course! Its fantastic fun and great for flying confidence and general flying skills.
The most important thing is your instructor, chose a guy with a good reputation and proven track record in aerobatics. I would suggest you stay away from cesena aerobats and beagle pups they are just too under powered to be effective IMHO. look for something with at least 180HP as a min or you will spend all your time climbing. In order my ideal trainers would be Pitts S2A/Cap 10/firefly 180/200/260. You will get more done and have more fun 3 25 min pitts flights than 10 flights in something under powered with a crap roll rate. Just my thoughts others may have their own views.
Happy flying
If I were chief pilot of Pizza Express Airlines I would send all my pilots on an aerobatic course! Its fantastic fun and great for flying confidence and general flying skills.
The most important thing is your instructor, chose a guy with a good reputation and proven track record in aerobatics. I would suggest you stay away from cesena aerobats and beagle pups they are just too under powered to be effective IMHO. look for something with at least 180HP as a min or you will spend all your time climbing. In order my ideal trainers would be Pitts S2A/Cap 10/firefly 180/200/260. You will get more done and have more fun 3 25 min pitts flights than 10 flights in something under powered with a crap roll rate. Just my thoughts others may have their own views.
Happy flying
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Recently had an areo's taster at Kemble,in a bulldog, it was great!
I will be doing their advanced ppl, you can customise the course to suit what you want, although it will still cover their core skills. Basically it covers some aero's, upset training, low level work and emergencies, matz crossing if you want, all with the aim of tidying up your flying and getting you organised.
You can also add the aero's course to it.The instructors are mostly ex-mil, all are very experienced and do it because they enjoy it. The guy that took me up was Dave Jones, ex cfi at Bristol flying school, current IRE, etc, corperate jet pilot and aerbatics competion flyer. He was great.
They are a bit dearer than some but after trying them thats where i'm going. You get what you pay for.
Happy flying.
I will be doing their advanced ppl, you can customise the course to suit what you want, although it will still cover their core skills. Basically it covers some aero's, upset training, low level work and emergencies, matz crossing if you want, all with the aim of tidying up your flying and getting you organised.
You can also add the aero's course to it.The instructors are mostly ex-mil, all are very experienced and do it because they enjoy it. The guy that took me up was Dave Jones, ex cfi at Bristol flying school, current IRE, etc, corperate jet pilot and aerbatics competion flyer. He was great.
They are a bit dearer than some but after trying them thats where i'm going. You get what you pay for.
Happy flying.
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If you're in/around Yorkshire, try Sherburn Aero club as they have a Robin 2160 and teach basic aeros. I did a conversion onto the 2160 many (many) years ago and did a few hours of aeros (missed them from my UAS days).
According to their website you can train for the AOPA Aerobatic Certificate.
All those years ago club members did go to aerobatic competitions.
According to their website you can train for the AOPA Aerobatic Certificate.
All those years ago club members did go to aerobatic competitions.
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Bear in mind that it's not actually an aerobatics rating you'll be getting - there is no such thing in the UK. Most schools offer the AOPA aeros syllabus as their aerobatic training schedule - do a search for AOPA Basic Aerobatics and you should be able to dig up a copy. If not send a pm and I will send you one.
Not a concern for most airlines I would say, but probably the best way to improve your handling skills bar none. Closest to you will probably be Prestwick but not sure about instructor availability. Ask at Carlisle as well, problem is you need reasonable weather so continuity can be difficult if you want to do it intensively. Further afield Tayside do the AOPA aeros course at Dundee as well, 5 fully aerobatic Grobs so aircraft availability good. Good luck - you won't regret it.
Not a concern for most airlines I would say, but probably the best way to improve your handling skills bar none. Closest to you will probably be Prestwick but not sure about instructor availability. Ask at Carlisle as well, problem is you need reasonable weather so continuity can be difficult if you want to do it intensively. Further afield Tayside do the AOPA aeros course at Dundee as well, 5 fully aerobatic Grobs so aircraft availability good. Good luck - you won't regret it.
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Further to DB6's comments although we're closest to you, instructor availability will be an issue. Also we've only got Chipmunks available for aero hire and hence there's concern with tailwheels as well and it's not to everyone's taste.
If I were you I'd go to Dundee. The Grob is a lovely aeroplane for this kind of thing and will build your confidence in all aspects of unusual attitude recovery, spinning and aerobatics in general. Excellent value for money.
If I were you I'd go to Dundee. The Grob is a lovely aeroplane for this kind of thing and will build your confidence in all aspects of unusual attitude recovery, spinning and aerobatics in general. Excellent value for money.
DB6
For your information there is a UK aerobatic rating for your licence, it's for instructors to teach aerobatics, there is a course for it and it removes the restriction not to teach aerobatics from your licence, if that makes sense.
For your information there is a UK aerobatic rating for your licence, it's for instructors to teach aerobatics, there is a course for it and it removes the restriction not to teach aerobatics from your licence, if that makes sense.
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Aha, well since you mention it Pizza.....as you say yourself it's not a rating, it's a removal of a restriction from one (instructor's) however it won't be appropriate to 757-wannabe as he hasn't finished his ATPLs so probably won't be an instructor. For a PPL there is no aerobatics rating nor any restrictions on flying aeros - apart from self-preservation of course. As you say it's not that easy to make sense of, or as I prefer to say it's a load of JAR/EASA European crap! N.B. Not having a go, but if you check my profile and insert 'aerobatics' between 'Tayside' and 'FI' you'll get my drift 
.
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Agree with Bullethead
From aus here as well.
Currently completing airline cadetship.
We do unusual attitude recovery, and also aerobatics endos for a few manouevres (forgive me if spelt incorrectly, never get this word right).
DOES help with aircraft handling ability.
CAN save your life one day.
A lot of incidents these days involve the pilot either:
NIN
edit: oh, and it was in a Citabria - ripper little aircraft!! about 700kgs with 180hp i think.
Currently completing airline cadetship.
We do unusual attitude recovery, and also aerobatics endos for a few manouevres (forgive me if spelt incorrectly, never get this word right).
DOES help with aircraft handling ability.
CAN save your life one day.
A lot of incidents these days involve the pilot either:
- Being unaware of the aircraft energy state/attitude
- Being aware of this, but failing to regain control
- Using the wrong techniques to regain aircraft control
NIN
edit: oh, and it was in a Citabria - ripper little aircraft!! about 700kgs with 180hp i think.
Last edited by Nine_Inch__Wings; 30th May 2010 at 02:54. Reason: additional info
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Any advise to get an oportunity in this wonderful world, and how participate in championships and get sponsored?
The best way? Buy an extra 200?
Any schools near florida with a good reputation in respect aerobatics?
JL
The best way? Buy an extra 200?
Any schools near florida with a good reputation in respect aerobatics?
JL