Failing IR first series = never becoming a professional pilot

[flyboy1818]

I have just failed my first series IR flight test, I made a few stupid mistakes. I'm gutted about this and I'm now seriously worried about my future in professional aviation, I am not new to flying, I have been flying for over ten years. I'm still young (under 25). Will you always be viewed as a failed pilot for failing an IR flight test? Is my future doomed and should I just accept that I'm not cut out for this and give up now?

I have completed my flight training whilst working shift work and its not been very easy, but I don't want to be in loads of debt like everyone else and I know that nothing in this industry is guaranteed.

Its alot of money to retake an IR flight test and I'm having nightmares about failing this again!

[TopGunGB]

Flyboy,

Don't get down on yourself. Look at the situation this way: It's better to fail the test and learn from it than pass it by sheer luck. You know what your mistakes were. Learn from them and you'll approach your re-test a wiser and more able pilot.

By the way, I know a girl who failed her IR test the first time as well. She was absolutely devastated and questioned her abilities. She's now a captain at a major airline in the UK.

[Halfwayback]

We all have what the doctors call the white coat syndrome and when we are being examined, medically or otherwise, we tend to get wound up. It is then we make mistakes. With good training and by thinking ahead of the game, it is much less likely that you will make them in the real world

I failed my first commercial IR by not correctly using the alternate procedure at Jersey. I re-took it almost immediately and passed. I have been with the same major UK carrier for almost 20 years and have more than 12k hours.

A prospective employer only looks at your licence and if you have a type and a current IR then that is all they are interested in. They will only know you failed your first IR if you tell them and I'm sure you would not wish to do that. I really is inconsequential in the run of things.

I suggest you pick yourself up, save a bit more and when you feel ready have another go but don't leave it too long because you obviously thought you were ready now.

Good luck with the retake!

HWB

[lilflyboy262]

Please go and find some brass nuckles and punch whoever put that thought into your head, in the face.

If your really struggling with your IR, get your hands on a version of flight sim. Preferably version x, then practice your butt off with that.

You said yourself that it was just some stupid mistakes, not huge errors.

Also IFR is not a huge part of flying, unless you are expecting airline jobs straight away, most of your first jobs around the world are single engine piston VFR anyway.
Don't let it get you down!

I failed my PPL first shot and didn't chuck it in then! Nailed the CPL and IFR first go later.

[hollingworthp]

Rubbish

I failed my first IR after getting my kecks in a twist over not getting Standard within minutes of my departure. I should have rescued a partial from it but couldn't get it out of my mind and then porked up the single engine go-around by being so pre-occupied with it.

Fortunately that all happened in the first 25 mins or so, so the examiner took control and flew back which saved quite some time/money.

Got my s**t together and had no worries on the 2nd shot.

[covec]

The best pilots learn from their mistakes.

The experience will make you a better person.

And that is all it is, mate, an experience! Keep going.

[paco]

"Load of tosh. I know several professional pilots who partialed/failed their IR"

Including the one from the Queen's Flight!

Phil

[flyboy1818]

Thanks for the responses everyone, its a hard blow to take but the show must go on. I think most people who get through the flight training system and pass everything first time are either extremley lucky or very talented. I know I'm capable, so fingers crossed for next time!

[G SXTY]

I'd go for lucky. It's so easy to partial or fail the CPL and IR, and there are so many ways of doing so, that I don't think anyone gets a first time pass without some degree of luck. I speak as someone who partialled the CPL (thanks to examitis I couldn't manage timed turns) and somehow squeaked a first time pass in the IR, despite my best efforts to throw it away. A friend also managed a first time IR pass even though he descended a long, long way on 1013 when cleared to an altitude. He spotted it just before the level off, and was fortunate that it was a high QNH. On another day that would have been an alt bust and a partial . . .

Everyone who has been through it knows what a lottery it is, and remember that your CFI wouldn't have signed off the 190A if he didn't think you were capable of passing the test.

Best of luck next time!

[wheelbrace]

Nil Illegitimae Carborundum

Its alot of money to retake an IR flight test and I'm having nightmares about failing this again!

Just think about what you have spent getting to this stage! Keep going and give the nay sayers the bird.

Best of luck with the retake. My thoughts are with you. By the by, I still have the nightmares despite having passed...

By the way, G SXTY, the national lottery has better odds.

[flyhelico]

I was going to fail mine on the NDB approach. by chance I used lot of drift to correct my path before reaching the descent point, if not I would have been over the 5 degrees(lateral deviation) authorized and he would have bust me!

I think in this case I would have go missed and told to the examiner I screwed up my approach and that's my right!I try again!

as you can see, you are the one who decide if you will pass or not.
during this day, I have decided I would be the pilot in command...and I would do everything to be safe.

To get a first time pass, even if you are bad(like me )...accept you are not good(who is good anyway?when stressed), and correct your mistakes.Don't do like if he was not going to see them...( shoot!!!, my altitude, I correct..., any ice?)

this is what the examiner want see.don't bull**** him...don't insist, just fight fight fight!!( fight with you plane!).

there is nothing really hard. Just fly the plane and be consistent iin what you do, and plan ahead.

Don't do like a guy I know when his DH was 1200, he said "DH, I look outside", and in fact, this idiot was at 2200 ft.

the examiner told him are you sure? the guy didn't know anymore.Com'on, read the altimeter like" 2200ft, descending for 1200ft, 2000 ft descending for 1200..."(and it takes up to 2-3 minutes for the descent from the FAF, if you are at the DH after 30 seconds( only 250ft at 500ft/min)...mmmh, something wrong no???)

He was busted...(if you can not read an altimeter and descent to the correct altitude, it would be good to do something else in your life, why not work for the CAA?)


whats about the guy who turn in the wrong direction in the holding???and try to hide it!!!

I think many guys fail their IR because they are not in the proper state of mind.
I think the chief instructor pilot should brief pilots before passing the test.
I think they way of teaching in England is wrong!(the know it, so they can get more money from you). When I pass my ttest, my mind was set FAA and not JAA.

Why do you think pilots in the USA have a better pass rate(90%)?, not because they are better, because they accept they have no experience and they don't mind to go miss.And they don't f...up with 1-2 degrees in the hold...they think to turn in the right direction, more important than counting the 1-2 seconds on your watch.

failing an IR is not a big issue, crashing yes...

[clanger32]

I was on the same course as HollingworthP (who by the way, is the worst blogger on the planet....but I digress!).

I was by no means the most talented pilot on our course, but I somehow managed to walk away with a first time pass, where I'd actually thought I'd get a punch in the face, I thought I'd flown so badly.

The point I'd make is that it IS a lottery. Personally I think the IR is more about how well you can hold your nerve than how good a pilot you are, but you still have to pass.

Your career is definitely not screwed by a lack of first series IR pass....if you get to the tenth series and you still haven't passed, I might take a different view, but give employers some credit...everyone here has recounted how the IR is bloody tough...employers know that and they WILL give you some flex for having a bad day at the office.

and by the way, even the very best fail or partial the IR you know....the guy on our course who told me that "I shouldn't compare myself to the stella pilots like me" managed to partial, despite according to him flying perfectly apart from messing his SE go around up....So it must be true. A stella pilot told me so

[philc1983]

You only fail when you give up.

Flyboy,

Honestly you will be fine. You've said it yourself you made little mistakes. It only takes 2 and you are done, so don't worry too much.

Show your fighting spirit and captaincy potential by coming back with renewed vigour for the retest and passing it outright. That shows much more character.

The very best of luck to you.

Flyhelico,

How on earth can you comment on the UK IR if you haven't taken it? It is widely recognised that it is far tougher than the FAA one so your argument has no basis. Do your research before making such outrageous claims.

[sapperkenno]

@philc1983

How on earth can you comment on the UK IR if you haven't taken it? It is widely recognised that it is far tougher than the FAA one so your argument has no basis.

Have you taken the FAA Instrument Rating?

I've also heard people say that the FAA one isn't as hard... I'd just like to know why you think that is? In what ways is the JAA one tougher? Are we talking tolerances for accuracy with altitudes/headings etc, questions asked during the test!?


I've done the FAA one, and am also an FAA Flight Instructor (and Flight Instructor Instrument) but can't comment on the JAA IR as I haven't done it.

I have, however, discussed the nuances between the FAA/JAA ratings with two of my friends here who have done/are doing their IR's here in the UK.


I would say using a "Hood" instead of screens, could be seen as easier... and possibly that the way in which I took my FAA IR in a single at first, then did my Commercial, then did another test for my Commercial Multi-Engine (with Instrument) might simplify things. Long story short, most of the "airwork" and cross-country stuff is done in the single, including numerous approaches, holding and partial panel... then when you take the Multi-IR, you need not cover everything providing you meet the test standards, as you already have an Instrument Rating (albeit a single engine one)... so basically, a simplified IR flight test in the twin covering OEI approaches (and missed app's) and partial panel again, but not the entire test as previously done in the single.

Hope that makes sense!? You can still do the whole hog straight in the twin (like the UK IR), but many people do things the way I did (single IR, CPL, multi IR). One thing I will say is that I did it all in proper aeroplanes (Warriors, Arrows, Aztec) but don't know whether that's necessarily tougher, and the FAA do allow some instrument sim-hours (only 20) towards the requirements.

NDB's are pretty much defunct out in the States, and they were only covered in the oral (SHOCK!!! ) in my case, but GPS approaches were flown in their place (both "pure" GPS approaches, and "overlays" used for NDB procedures) instead.


So... as far as I'm aware, tougher points for JAA may be seen as;
1) IMC screens used, not hoods/foggles
2) ADF makes up a huge part of the test
3) Cost
4) More simulated/actual instrument hours required
...and aside from the flying portion...
5) Written exams.
...and that's me out of ideas. If you can add to that list with why an ICAO instrument rating taken in the UK far exceeds one done in the States with it's toughness, then I'd appreciate it. I wouldn't say tougher... just different.

[A330ETOPS]

All bollocks mate. I've got friends that trained with me on an integrated course in Jerez who have 3rd series IR's (I got 1st and still no job!) and are flying now with the likes of RYR & TCX. Hardly any airlines will even ask you this on an application or interview. If you've got a licence, you can do the job. Don't let it put you down. It's not the end of the world at all

[philc1983]

With all due respect I never actually said that the UK IR was more difficult and I certainly did not want this thread to descend into a slanging match between FAA and JAA licences, which is better.

I simply wanted clarification for the claim that FAA IR was more difficult than the test sat in the UK, and that the teaching of JAA IR was poorer than that of the States.

Your points listed however may answer the question.

[Jumbo744]

Flyboy,

don't worry mate. My favourite quote is the one from Robert Kiyosaki:

The size of your success is measured by the strength of your desire; the size of your dream; and how you handle disappointment along the way.

Right now you may feel totally depressed, and feel like a loser, but you're not. Just let a few days pass, do whatever you got to do to build yourself up and go try again the flight test. You'll be 100 times more motivated to pass!

Your career is clearly not jeopardized!!

Best of luck and don't worry

[shaun ryder]

the original stellapilot

Clanger, I bet you had no idea that that was me mate!

Hows the job hunting?
Keep the faith.

[hollingworthp]

Shaun,

Unfortunately you would pale into dim insignificance in the supernova-like radiance of the pint-sized little fellow Clanger is referring to.

Still, awesome skills or no, didn't stop daddy having to fund a tasty P2F TR + Line Training package for the wee guy.

[xuejiesandi]

Its okay mate...

Nothing, I repeat nothing prevents you from realizing your dreams...every one who passes or everyone who flunks are human enough to become a pilots...

& If truth comes out, everyone here has failed one thing or another...all in your hand is to try again...so do all you can...if not then again do all you can...