ATPL or just IR
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: lost in Europe
ATPL or just IR
Hi All,
Here is an interesting opinion of several private pilots and instructors I have stumbled upon recently:
I was enquiring about adding IR to the basic PPL. The recommendation was to go for ATPL theory, instead of doing just IR theory. The guys I was talking to (all non-airline pilots) were saying that IR theory alone is a somewhat artificially limited part and that it is worth going for the full-blown ATPL theory straight away, even if one is only planning to fly private in the future. There was also a mention of 'do the real theory study...' - meaning ATPL.
When the discussion was turning to actual flying - only IR has been deemed worthwhile, and CPL only needed for commercial use (fair enough) and definitely no Multi-engine - labeled as 'complete waste of money'.
Now I wonder what this community would think of this whole approach?
Here is an interesting opinion of several private pilots and instructors I have stumbled upon recently:
I was enquiring about adding IR to the basic PPL. The recommendation was to go for ATPL theory, instead of doing just IR theory. The guys I was talking to (all non-airline pilots) were saying that IR theory alone is a somewhat artificially limited part and that it is worth going for the full-blown ATPL theory straight away, even if one is only planning to fly private in the future. There was also a mention of 'do the real theory study...' - meaning ATPL.
When the discussion was turning to actual flying - only IR has been deemed worthwhile, and CPL only needed for commercial use (fair enough) and definitely no Multi-engine - labeled as 'complete waste of money'.
Now I wonder what this community would think of this whole approach?
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: Basingstoke
My initial instructor (and current bizjet pilot) advised me not to do less than ATPL theory, regardless of whether you just want the CPL or just the IR. I am now following his advice!
An MEP is very valuable in my view, but unfortunately very expensive. I think it will take new twins such as the rotax powered Tecnam to see a resurgence in MEP flying.
I don't think anyone would doubt that an IR is worthwhile, but the reality is that the cost of gaining and maintaining even a single engine IR is out of reach of many PPLs, and most PPLs have no interest whatsoever in IFR flying. The IMC rating is a debate in itself!
An MEP is very valuable in my view, but unfortunately very expensive. I think it will take new twins such as the rotax powered Tecnam to see a resurgence in MEP flying.
I don't think anyone would doubt that an IR is worthwhile, but the reality is that the cost of gaining and maintaining even a single engine IR is out of reach of many PPLs, and most PPLs have no interest whatsoever in IFR flying. The IMC rating is a debate in itself!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: Belgium
I can't see the benefit of doing the whole ATPL other than pure interest.
The additional topics are really waaay off topic for the PPL/IR pilot. Unless you can affort turboprops or better...
And after a while you lose all credits for ATPL theory if you didn't obtain a CPL, except the ones you need for...the IR.
IR is certainly fun flying, but finding a capable ACFT for hire is tough...
The additional topics are really waaay off topic for the PPL/IR pilot. Unless you can affort turboprops or better...
And after a while you lose all credits for ATPL theory if you didn't obtain a CPL, except the ones you need for...the IR.
IR is certainly fun flying, but finding a capable ACFT for hire is tough...
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
From: Above & Beyond
Embarking on a 6 month (full time) ATPL course just to get issued an IR is just stupid and waste of time and money. If you want to possibly go into commercial flying later on then yes I would agree in doing the ATPL course.
Quite frankly the IR is the most important rating you can hold and that is what makes you a professional pilot (flying with precision and skill) not the CPL. A CPL is just a PPl but allows you to charge the punters
But staying on topic, if it is soley for private flying then ATPL modules are no use to you, as there only there to set you up for your full ATP license.
The knowledge from them are great but somewhat useless in some areas. If you want to read them then just search them on the internet there is alot of people on there willing to share them
Quite frankly the IR is the most important rating you can hold and that is what makes you a professional pilot (flying with precision and skill) not the CPL. A CPL is just a PPl but allows you to charge the punters
But staying on topic, if it is soley for private flying then ATPL modules are no use to you, as there only there to set you up for your full ATP license.
The knowledge from them are great but somewhat useless in some areas. If you want to read them then just search them on the internet there is alot of people on there willing to share them
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 594
Likes: 1
From: 32°55'22"S 151°46'56"E
Well considering that you have to do 10 of the 14 ATPL exams in order to obtain the IR and that the Distance Learning groundschool such as Bristol give high quality training software, it is something worth considering.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: planet earth
In my opinion an ATPL is very useful. Much more than an IR rating. You can study for your own interest and get much satisfaction from it. You never stop learning in aviation and an ATPL gives you that kick that puts you in front of many others in terms of knowledge.
An IR itself is just useful if you fly either commercialy or with an advanced aircraft : that means a bird which can REALLY fly into known icing conditions. Otherwise is practically useless considering that most GA aircrafts cannot afford to fly "into the weather" .
Just my 2 cents anyway....
An IR itself is just useful if you fly either commercialy or with an advanced aircraft : that means a bird which can REALLY fly into known icing conditions. Otherwise is practically useless considering that most GA aircrafts cannot afford to fly "into the weather" .
Just my 2 cents anyway....
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
From: Above & Beyond
GLAG,
I have to disagree with your comment, an IR is more useful than an ATPL which quite frankly he will not obtain later on in time. The IR improves your flying and RT skills and most importantly it can save your life! Knowing the convergency formula wont.
Obtaining the IR is more useful to have regarding flying wise, for knowledge then he can just read up on it, the jeppesen manuals are lying around the internet if you just search for them.
I have to disagree with your comment, an IR is more useful than an ATPL which quite frankly he will not obtain later on in time. The IR improves your flying and RT skills and most importantly it can save your life! Knowing the convergency formula wont.
Obtaining the IR is more useful to have regarding flying wise, for knowledge then he can just read up on it, the jeppesen manuals are lying around the internet if you just search for them.
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
From: Copenhagen
I did the IR theory first, and then decided that I wanted a CPL so I did the ATPL theory as well.
Lesson learned: If you want a CPL do the ATPL theory ;-)
Besides that, if you are ABSOLUTELY sure you don't want a CPL and "just" want a IR, then go for the IR theroy.
It is correct that it is 9 subjects + comm as opposed to 12+com in ATPL. But some of the subjects are merged, so its only 6 exams (+com).
The vast majority of the ATPL subject is absolutely bullocks. Don't waste you time with it unless you really want to go commercial. With the IR theory its a bit better.
Lesson learned: If you want a CPL do the ATPL theory ;-)
Besides that, if you are ABSOLUTELY sure you don't want a CPL and "just" want a IR, then go for the IR theroy.
It is correct that it is 9 subjects + comm as opposed to 12+com in ATPL. But some of the subjects are merged, so its only 6 exams (+com).
The vast majority of the ATPL subject is absolutely bullocks. Don't waste you time with it unless you really want to go commercial. With the IR theory its a bit better.
