ATPL GS recognition between UK and Germany
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ATPL GS recognition between UK and Germany
Hi Everyone,
I was wondering if someone had an experience of doing ATPL GS as Distance learning in UK schools and then doing the actual flying school and practical tests in Germany.
I've got my PPL in Germany and had done all the GS tests successfully in German (as that was the only option). However, the study was an uphill struggle, as I'm not a native speaker there. Now comes the time to progress to ATPL and I find myself in a conundrum:
All the schools I've asked over here would only provide theory GS in German, while the actual examinations are to be in English. I find it funny having to struggle through German only to revert back to English for the exams.
Trouble is - flight schools in Germany seem to be notorious for not recognizing other's training, not even other schools within the country.
Any thoughts/links will be greatly appreciated!
I was wondering if someone had an experience of doing ATPL GS as Distance learning in UK schools and then doing the actual flying school and practical tests in Germany.
I've got my PPL in Germany and had done all the GS tests successfully in German (as that was the only option). However, the study was an uphill struggle, as I'm not a native speaker there. Now comes the time to progress to ATPL and I find myself in a conundrum:
All the schools I've asked over here would only provide theory GS in German, while the actual examinations are to be in English. I find it funny having to struggle through German only to revert back to English for the exams.
Trouble is - flight schools in Germany seem to be notorious for not recognizing other's training, not even other schools within the country.
Any thoughts/links will be greatly appreciated!
All training and testing should be completed under the auspices of one State; the State of Licence Issue.
JAR–FCL 1.065 State of licence issue
(See JAR–FCL 1.010(c))
(a) An applicant shall demonstrate the
satisfactory completion of all requirements for
licence issue to the Authority of the ‘State of
licence issue’ (see JAR–FCL 1.010(c)).
(See JAR–FCL 1.010(c))
(a) An applicant shall demonstrate the
satisfactory completion of all requirements for
licence issue to the Authority of the ‘State of
licence issue’ (see JAR–FCL 1.010(c)).
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Solaris, you will probably get a better discussion (although it might not lead to a better answer than the one Whopity gave you 
) if you ask this in the Professional Studies forum.
) if you ask this in the Professional Studies forum.
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Thank you Whopity and BackPacker.
Whopity, I was checking the reference from you and the document mentioned goes on to say:
"In circumstances agreed by both authorities, an applicant who has commenced training under the responsibility of one authority may be permitted to complete the requirements under the responsibility of the other authority" further specifying that it allows for theory, medical and flying to be part of this 'agreement'.
Perhaps, however owing to all the red tape, I might be better off completing a course at Bristol or OAT just for the knowledge and then applying and sitting through the course at some German school just for the sake of 'procedure'. It sounds like a waste of time, but as with my PPL I actually went through an English self-study course first.
BackPacker, would you know how to move the thread to Professional Studies forum? I'm very new to this site.
Whopity, I was checking the reference from you and the document mentioned goes on to say:
"In circumstances agreed by both authorities, an applicant who has commenced training under the responsibility of one authority may be permitted to complete the requirements under the responsibility of the other authority" further specifying that it allows for theory, medical and flying to be part of this 'agreement'.
Perhaps, however owing to all the red tape, I might be better off completing a course at Bristol or OAT just for the knowledge and then applying and sitting through the course at some German school just for the sake of 'procedure'. It sounds like a waste of time, but as with my PPL I actually went through an English self-study course first.
BackPacker, would you know how to move the thread to Professional Studies forum? I'm very new to this site.
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If you wish to do the ATPL GS studies and exams in one JAA country, then carry out the flight training in another JAA country, you must first obtain the written consent of the authorities in both countries.
To avoid problems with the getting your licence issued it is essential that you get the agreements IN WRITING. Individual staff members in the UK CAA often change jobs, and when they do so they rarely leave a trail for their successors to follow.
This has been discussed on numerous occasions in the Wanabees forum. A quick search should reveal the past threads.
To avoid problems with the getting your licence issued it is essential that you get the agreements IN WRITING. Individual staff members in the UK CAA often change jobs, and when they do so they rarely leave a trail for their successors to follow.
This has been discussed on numerous occasions in the Wanabees forum. A quick search should reveal the past threads.
Whatever the intention of the JAA, JAR-FCL 1.065(a) does not require that all training must be completed in a single Member State. All that is required is that an applicant demonstrates to the State of Licence Issue that all of the required training has been satisfactorily completed in accordance with JAR-FCL 1. No statement is made as to the state in which any of that training must be completed.
The provisions of JAR-FCL 1.065(b) to which Keith refers, relates to a different situation where, for example, an applicant, having started training under one State of Licence Issue wishes to change to another part way through, perhaps because of an enforced re-location. It does not prevent a candidate from completing training in multiple countries whilst retaining the same State of Licence Issue.
The only clear restriction on mobility of training is JAR-FCL 1.485(a), which states that the entire set of theoretical knowledge examinations must be taken in one Member State.
Ultimately, it is up to individual Member States to decide what they will and will not accept and the only way to determine whether you can do what you wish to is to consult the Regulator in the State of Licence Issue (presumably the LBA in this case).
This will, unless intentions change, be entirely different under EASA where, it is intended, there will be no restrictions whatever. You will be able, for example, to undergo theoretical knowledge training in one country, take the exams in a second, undergo flight training in a third, take the skill test in a fourth, complete the MCC course in a fifth and have the licence issued in a sixth.
The provisions of JAR-FCL 1.065(b) to which Keith refers, relates to a different situation where, for example, an applicant, having started training under one State of Licence Issue wishes to change to another part way through, perhaps because of an enforced re-location. It does not prevent a candidate from completing training in multiple countries whilst retaining the same State of Licence Issue.
The only clear restriction on mobility of training is JAR-FCL 1.485(a), which states that the entire set of theoretical knowledge examinations must be taken in one Member State.
Ultimately, it is up to individual Member States to decide what they will and will not accept and the only way to determine whether you can do what you wish to is to consult the Regulator in the State of Licence Issue (presumably the LBA in this case).
This will, unless intentions change, be entirely different under EASA where, it is intended, there will be no restrictions whatever. You will be able, for example, to undergo theoretical knowledge training in one country, take the exams in a second, undergo flight training in a third, take the skill test in a fourth, complete the MCC course in a fifth and have the licence issued in a sixth.
) I get an answer from them.
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Frankly, I cannot see what the problem is exactly?
Depending on which country you would like to be your license issuer you are to complete ATPL GS and CPL training in the same country, of which you hold a valid Class 1 medical certificate. Training for your ratings can be undertaken in any other JAA member state. So if you would like the UK CAA to be your license issuer, you must sit your ATPL's there, complete your CPL training either in the UK or at a JAA school in Florida, and hold a valid UK Class 1 medical certificate. The training for your ratings may be undertaken in Germany.
The German CAA do not recognize ATPL GS completed with a UK training provider, the UK CAA, however, do recognize the ATPL GS completed with a German school. I cannot say if the latter really is true so stand to be corrected on that one.
As my previous poster said, do contact the relevant agency beforehand and to protect yourself against all odds get an answer in writing!
Depending on which country you would like to be your license issuer you are to complete ATPL GS and CPL training in the same country, of which you hold a valid Class 1 medical certificate. Training for your ratings can be undertaken in any other JAA member state. So if you would like the UK CAA to be your license issuer, you must sit your ATPL's there, complete your CPL training either in the UK or at a JAA school in Florida, and hold a valid UK Class 1 medical certificate. The training for your ratings may be undertaken in Germany.
The German CAA do not recognize ATPL GS completed with a UK training provider, the UK CAA, however, do recognize the ATPL GS completed with a German school. I cannot say if the latter really is true so stand to be corrected on that one.
As my previous poster said, do contact the relevant agency beforehand and to protect yourself against all odds get an answer in writing!
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Well... I know a friend, he did 2 times the ATPL exams (UK and Dutch). He did the CPL course finished up the CPL. Some years later he did the IR course but the theory was not valid anymore. He got an extension from the dutch caa and finaly the uk caa accepted the dutch theory. Maybe there is a way that they accept the german theory.
Call the uk caa and ask them. They will help you out. Could be that they accept german theoretical exams.
You are right, there is no point of teaching in german and doing the exams in english. But the problem is, the translation of the german question is so bad! All students at my school they do the exams in engish except HPL.
Call the uk caa and ask them. They will help you out. Could be that they accept german theoretical exams.
You are right, there is no point of teaching in german and doing the exams in english. But the problem is, the translation of the german question is so bad! All students at my school they do the exams in engish except HPL.
