definition of Cross country flight

[liam548]

To commence your CPL you need a certain number of cross country hours,

what is the definition of a cross country hour?

[wheelbrace]

Cross country. Unsurprising with our MPs.

To commence the CPL(A) training, you have fulfilled the cross country requirement by getting your PPL.

When applying for your CPL(A) (ie you have finished all the other application requirements) you must have completed a 300 nm cross country flight as per LAS D1.2(D).a(ii).

The definition of cross country time, I believe, is time where you are >6 nm from the Airfield Reference Point (ARP). You must check this one with the CAA, however.

The above applies to the modular route. Integrated might be different - different planet!

[liam548]

thanks for clearing that up.

[BillieBob]

There is currently no definition of 'cross-country' for licensing purposes in the UK. People will often quote figures such as 3nm or 6nm but the only published reference is in Section 1 of Part B of Schedule 7 to the Air Navigation Order 2009. This states that a cross country flight means any flight during the course of which the aircraft is more than 3nm from the aerodrome of departure. However, the definition relates specifically and only to Section 1 and, in fact, relates only to the privilege of a restricted FI.

Amendment 7 to JAR-FCL 1 introduces a definition of 'cross-country' as "A flight between a point of departure and a point of arrival following a pre –planned route using standard navigation procedures."The UK CAA, however, have not yet fully implemented Amendment 7 and so this definition does not currently apply in the UK.

Since the UK CAA has failed consistently to define the term, you are pretty much at liberty to place upon it whatever definition you wish and, should they not agree with your interpretation, it is up to the Authority to prove that what you have claimed is not, in fact, valid cross-country flying. Since the only definition, albeit not relevant to licence issue, is 3nm from the airfield, I would claim all of your local area and navigational flying as 'cross-country'. There are, of course, those that could, under this definition, claim 'cross-country' while in the circuit but its probably better not to open that particular discussion.

[liam548]

Do you suggest that log book entires are specifically marked "cross country"? I would suggest most peoples flights fall within this definition and few just fly circuits following training.

If you log the entries with waypoints/towns flown to then this should suffice I presume and is more accurate that simply putting "cross country".

[wheelbrace]

Too much information!

Detailing all the cross country? Nightmare - put nothing extra in your logbook that might hang you later... Please trust this advice - I know from bitter, expensive experience.

Thankyou for the cross country definition BillieBob - would that a few FTOs and instructors read this thread.

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Does this 300nm qualifying X Country have to be done within the same day or can it be spread over 2 days for example?

[wheelbrace]

According to the LAS requirement given before, it has to be done in one day. Don't rely on CAA benevolence - 'rules is rules' is written on the iron gates outside the aquarium in Gatwick.

SoCal App - does visiting the mother in law count as a tech. issue?

[DA-10mm]

let's say one extends downwind, while in the pattern, by 3 or 6 (miles for whatever reason)...this makes makes the flight a cross country?
even without actually landing somewhere else other than the home drome?
seems slighty retarded...yet explains a lot.

[ReverseFlight]

Just to throw a spanner into the works, some interpret cross-country to require at least one full stop landing (not merely a touch-and-go) at an aerodrome away from the original takeoff aerodrome. Any comments ?

[Halfbaked_Boy]

I think you will find it has to be done in the one day unless you can prove that some Tech issue occurred which demanded an overnight stop.

Nope - I believe the key figure here is 24 hours. So long as no more than 24 hours have lapsed since you started up at the original departure aerodrome, and within that time you have flown 300 NM and stopped at two different aerodromes, you're fine.

Technically you could leave somewhere like Southend for example at 1400Z, fly up to Welshpool and stop there for the night. Next morning, fly to Lydd, and that's your CPL qualifier done. Have a sandwich and fly the short leg back to Southend.

Done and dusted.

[IrishJetdriver]

The 300nm X/C can be done in a straight line. I went to the south of France, stayed there a couple of days and my buddy flew back. Just made sure we landed twice in each direction. Dead easy, breakfast, lunch and destination!

[wheelbrace]

In a daze...

Halfbaked_Boy - the LAS regs. do not specify 24 hours. I quote the regulation asterisk in the same section pointed to in my earlier posting:

'* The cross-country flight should be regarded as a single
planned exercise including landings at two intermediate
aerodromes and completed during the course of a single
day. Flights completed over the course of more than one
day will not normally be acceptable towards licence issue.
Should an applicant claim that there were mitigating
circumstances that prevented the flight from being
completed as originally planned, the applicant must send
in a written submission to PLD explaining what happened
together with any relevant supporting documentation/
information for consideration.'

Without fail, the CAA will have a different idea of what constitutes a day from your notion.

Then again, they don't specify locale - a Mercurian day is 176 Earth days, I gather. Try that on the PLD.