Is there a career now as a pilot
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,114
Likes: 0
From: UK
Amen to that. The sad thing is most wannabes forget that it is just a job at the end of the day. After a few years of early morning starts wandering from a distant airport carpark in torrential rain on yet another weekend the glamour (if there ever was any) has certainly run out. On that long walk into flight ops you can remind yourself of the long time to command, the companys new policy to recruit lower paid pilots into overseas bases that will now fly in and do your work and its reduction in fleet size and all the knock on effects that will have onto your career.
But hey why listen to us when you can go and blow 100k on an integrated course, pay another 30k to Michael O'Leary and then look forward to lots of unpaid leave once your deemed to expensive to fly. But never fear there will be command opportunities should you so wish to upsticks and move to whichever new base he requires cheap labour for. Sealed bids into a box please - just name your price.
But hey why listen to us when you can go and blow 100k on an integrated course, pay another 30k to Michael O'Leary and then look forward to lots of unpaid leave once your deemed to expensive to fly. But never fear there will be command opportunities should you so wish to upsticks and move to whichever new base he requires cheap labour for. Sealed bids into a box please - just name your price.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: London
The hardly seems any point now. Pay a lot of money to get a badly (or negatively) paid job.
I often wonder, with all these terrible contracts airlines offer what type of people this job actually attracts. Having no self-respect seems must be one of the biggest peronsality traits now.
I love flying but i'm not going prepared to be a slave.
I often wonder, with all these terrible contracts airlines offer what type of people this job actually attracts. Having no self-respect seems must be one of the biggest peronsality traits now.
I love flying but i'm not going prepared to be a slave.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: Not far from the airport
jimbuckleybarrett - if your son is really that keen on becoming a pilot when he leaves school, then really, we should be seeing him on here, asking the same questions you're asking.
I'm assuming he's around 14/15/16 years old? If he's that keen on getting into aviation I'd recommend he considers it as a second career rather than his first. Leave school, go to college, get some A-Levels, get a job or go to university (or do both).
In 8-10 years time he'll have developed a wealth of understanding about the pilot training situation and the aviation industry. He'll appreciate what's expected of him, what it's going to cost and his realistic chances of securing employment once he's completed his training. He'll have several years of solid "life" experience under his belt, perhaps maybe even a degree to go with it.
I can only reflect on my experience, but jumping into flight training at 24 after a decent education and a few years of working put me in a good position to deal with, and complete to a good standard, my course of flight training.
I was fortunate to secure a job too, but I certainly didn't just walk into it! Looking back, just like WWW said, timing was everything. I was very very lucky to get a job. Had my flight training been delayed a week longer, I can guarantee I would have missed my opportunity.
I'm assuming he's around 14/15/16 years old? If he's that keen on getting into aviation I'd recommend he considers it as a second career rather than his first. Leave school, go to college, get some A-Levels, get a job or go to university (or do both).
In 8-10 years time he'll have developed a wealth of understanding about the pilot training situation and the aviation industry. He'll appreciate what's expected of him, what it's going to cost and his realistic chances of securing employment once he's completed his training. He'll have several years of solid "life" experience under his belt, perhaps maybe even a degree to go with it.
I can only reflect on my experience, but jumping into flight training at 24 after a decent education and a few years of working put me in a good position to deal with, and complete to a good standard, my course of flight training.
I was fortunate to secure a job too, but I certainly didn't just walk into it! Looking back, just like WWW said, timing was everything. I was very very lucky to get a job. Had my flight training been delayed a week longer, I can guarantee I would have missed my opportunity.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 375
Likes: 31
From: UK
Jim, as others have commented on here timing is key to securing a job as a low hours pilot and no one can predict when the next upturn in recruitment will occur.
However, NOW is the time to apply for the JN Somers ATPL scholarship, as it is likely that this year's scholarship could be the last.
The JN Somers scholarship is the UK's only indpendent, fully-funded ATPL scholarship and I find it extraordinary that so few individuals apply each year, often as few as 100.
It isn't easy to win, but it would be foolish in the extreme, IMHO, not to apply for a scholarship that is worth in excess of £80,000.
The Guild of Air Pilots and Navigators (GAPAN) administer the scholarship: www.gapan.org
Alternatively, your son could look at the modular training route, and again GAPAN offer a number of scholarships from PPL upwards. They're not the only ones either. Have a look on the Air League's website as well: www.airleague.co.uk
Regards, jez
However, NOW is the time to apply for the JN Somers ATPL scholarship, as it is likely that this year's scholarship could be the last.
The JN Somers scholarship is the UK's only indpendent, fully-funded ATPL scholarship and I find it extraordinary that so few individuals apply each year, often as few as 100.
It isn't easy to win, but it would be foolish in the extreme, IMHO, not to apply for a scholarship that is worth in excess of £80,000.
The Guild of Air Pilots and Navigators (GAPAN) administer the scholarship: www.gapan.org
Alternatively, your son could look at the modular training route, and again GAPAN offer a number of scholarships from PPL upwards. They're not the only ones either. Have a look on the Air League's website as well: www.airleague.co.uk
Regards, jez
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 2,033
Likes: 14
From: London, UK
To the posters on here talking about A-levels and increased applications to university - didn't you notice that Jim is Irish (hence probably the interest in PTC and Waterford College)? Before giving advice take a little time to look at the details of the original poster. This happens so many times on PPRuNe with people firing off opinions which are completely irrelevant to the situation of the poster. It can end up confusing the questioner instead of helping them!
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: uk
answer to my questions
how many pilots have no jobs?
problem solved...don't become a pilot!
career? it's not a career anymore, since P2F is now here...
since anyone can sit his ass on an airbus after paying 100k, who will employ and pay you to fly?
you have to be a total retard to go in a flight training!
how many pilots have no jobs?
problem solved...don't become a pilot!
career? it's not a career anymore, since P2F is now here...
since anyone can sit his ass on an airbus after paying 100k, who will employ and pay you to fly?
you have to be a total retard to go in a flight training!
Last edited by flyprototype; 13th February 2010 at 07:32.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3
Likes: 5
From: Wor Yerm
Jim - It's a damn good question. I'll give you the simplest answer I can. No, it's not a good idea for your son to fly for a living. There is absolutely no guarantee of a job. The only certainty is that you'll be forever paying for one course after another and that your son will not be receiving an income for three years or so. And you'll be down at least €100,000 and your son may be unemployable.
Join the airforce and get the government to pay would be a wiser idea or spending the money on a house so he doesn't have to have such a large salary to live might be even better. Or do a law degree, become a plumber, an architect - anything but flying. The reason I'm so negative is that the job market is flooded with idiots who will pay for a job and work for nothing. Not until the market has expanded to the point where we have run out of cretins will terms and conditions improve to the point where a flying career becomes viable again.
So what to do? If flying is that important to your son, trade flying lessons or gliding instruction (I'd suggest the latter) for scholastic study performance. Encourage him to get a worthwhile university degree and become employable in another activity. Then he'll be in a position to pay for his own flying training and if he makes it, he'll be a better person to be with, more employable by an airline and if that doesn't work out, well there will be in aviation terms, an Alternate.
PM
Join the airforce and get the government to pay would be a wiser idea or spending the money on a house so he doesn't have to have such a large salary to live might be even better. Or do a law degree, become a plumber, an architect - anything but flying. The reason I'm so negative is that the job market is flooded with idiots who will pay for a job and work for nothing. Not until the market has expanded to the point where we have run out of cretins will terms and conditions improve to the point where a flying career becomes viable again.
So what to do? If flying is that important to your son, trade flying lessons or gliding instruction (I'd suggest the latter) for scholastic study performance. Encourage him to get a worthwhile university degree and become employable in another activity. Then he'll be in a position to pay for his own flying training and if he makes it, he'll be a better person to be with, more employable by an airline and if that doesn't work out, well there will be in aviation terms, an Alternate.
PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Qatar
If he really loves it, do it.
Don't listen to the negativity here, most the posters are basing their opinions purely on the UK, which admittedly is in a bad way, but there are other places in the world to go if he really wants it, but it wont be easy.
And if he's out of training in say 5 years, there's no guarantee there'll be tons of jobs, but there will definitely be more than there is now.
Don't listen to the negativity here, most the posters are basing their opinions purely on the UK, which admittedly is in a bad way, but there are other places in the world to go if he really wants it, but it wont be easy.
And if he's out of training in say 5 years, there's no guarantee there'll be tons of jobs, but there will definitely be more than there is now.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: ireland
Encourage him to get a worthwhile university degree and become employable in another activity. Then he'll be in a position to pay for his own flying training
University and flight training? That's got to be racking up the sterling!
It's a good idea if you can afford it, but personally I wouldn't want to be studying/training towards the ATPLs etc with the additional stress of a student loan hanging over my head. Of course you could wait until you've saved up the money from working in your university graduate job, paid off said loan and go from there, but it's likely by this point age is starting to show a wry smile.
There's no way I'm saying age is not on your side in your late twenties/thirties! What I'm saying is that for somebody with the dream to fly from an early age, I believe it's possible to break into this industry a lot younger than that.
