Training for non-airline jobs...
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: ca
Training for non-airline jobs...
Hello all,
I'm looking for some thoughts on good schools to train with / where to train for a CPL, with an aim of jobs outside the airline industry. I've always wanted to fly and currently have a PPL with a little over 200 hours. I have an opportunity to get to a CPL now and head for the dream of flying. But I have no intention of wanting to work for big airlines. My joy is small(er) aircraft and ideally flight instructing / back country charter work. And yes, I am aware that these jobs are lower income.
Does anyone have any tips for getting into this. With 200 hours and quite a bit of x-country P1 time, I'm hoping that I can bypass a lot of the "hour building" work for the CPL?
One complication is that my astigmatism is outside JAA class 1 initial limits, but within renewal limits. So I'm thinking FAA or South Africa CAA for training?
Cheers!
I'm looking for some thoughts on good schools to train with / where to train for a CPL, with an aim of jobs outside the airline industry. I've always wanted to fly and currently have a PPL with a little over 200 hours. I have an opportunity to get to a CPL now and head for the dream of flying. But I have no intention of wanting to work for big airlines. My joy is small(er) aircraft and ideally flight instructing / back country charter work. And yes, I am aware that these jobs are lower income.
Does anyone have any tips for getting into this. With 200 hours and quite a bit of x-country P1 time, I'm hoping that I can bypass a lot of the "hour building" work for the CPL?
One complication is that my astigmatism is outside JAA class 1 initial limits, but within renewal limits. So I'm thinking FAA or South Africa CAA for training?
Cheers!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: UK
Similar situation to you 200+ hours, IMC etc. bored with expensive cups of coffee flying A to B to A. I too am considering CPL then FIC but wondering if realistically there will be any demand for P/T FI's in the UK. As for other commercial work I did talk with a Easy Jet Cpt. and BMI Baby FO who are also FI's whom I did my IMC with, they advised that for Air Taxi, the min. requirement can be 2,000+ hours and that there are lots of former airline Cpt. and FO's job hunting after the demise of various airlines.
I would be interested to hear from FI's or CFI's here who can shed light on the current FI jobs situation especially. To go to the next step for me will be approx £7k for CPL and £8K for FI, that's a lot of wonga if no realistic prospect of P/T FI as I have a job anyway and could elect to keep the cash and use it to fly something more interesting for PPL stuff. I see instructing as an enjoyable P/T role as I like teaching in general and as a means to fly regularly.
I would be interested to hear from FI's or CFI's here who can shed light on the current FI jobs situation especially. To go to the next step for me will be approx £7k for CPL and £8K for FI, that's a lot of wonga if no realistic prospect of P/T FI as I have a job anyway and could elect to keep the cash and use it to fly something more interesting for PPL stuff. I see instructing as an enjoyable P/T role as I like teaching in general and as a means to fly regularly.
Educated Hillbilly
Joined: Dec 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 13
From: From the Hills
Legal minimum for air taxi work (single pilot ops) 700tt with 40 p1 multi.
Realistic minimum 1000 hours tt, with 200 p1 multi.
Someone who has flown an automated multi crew jet for the last five years will not be a suitable candidate for single pilot Air Taxi work in a piston twin. So the ex-airline bods will in general not be in the running for Air Taxi work. The trouble at the moment is no one is moving up the chain to free up vacancies in the Air Taxi companies. Revalidated my FI rating last summer and still haven't found any part time instructing work.
Realistic minimum 1000 hours tt, with 200 p1 multi.
Someone who has flown an automated multi crew jet for the last five years will not be a suitable candidate for single pilot Air Taxi work in a piston twin. So the ex-airline bods will in general not be in the running for Air Taxi work. The trouble at the moment is no one is moving up the chain to free up vacancies in the Air Taxi companies. Revalidated my FI rating last summer and still haven't found any part time instructing work.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
From: London & Los Angeles
Hello, I posted a thread on the interviews forum about other work other than just the airlines. I agree there is a lot more to be had out of flying other than just pushing a large jet from A to B. I'm looking for ideas other than being a flight instructor like the guys who stand by to spray the oil slicks off our coasts or the coast guard islander you see buzzing the guys on the top gear title.
There are loads of non airline flying jobs to be had but what are they?
Muddy Boots
There are loads of non airline flying jobs to be had but what are they?
Muddy Boots
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
From: Dry bar
Someone who has flown an automated multi crew jet for the last five years will not be a suitable candidate for single pilot Air Taxi work in a piston twin.
This may apply to some oxford chump who's never seen a real aeroplane since flight school. Some of us have previous I will let you know. Piston twins fly at a fraction the speed/ altitude of a turbojet aeroplane, sometimes with far more advanced avionics that you will find on the flightdeck of one. Talk about yourself maybe but that is a bit of sweeping statement.
Currently no FI jobs either, keep your money for now.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 200
Likes: 4
From: London, UK
What are some of the non-Airline routes to follow?
I realise now is a bad time, but a few years down the line there should hopefully be options. FI / Air Taxi already mentioned, but what about freight, surveying, what other areas are worth considering? Will a CPL suffice or is training up to FATPL level generally required by companies who can presumably be choosy at the moment?
I really want to fly, but don't think an airline job is right for me. I am happy to work another jobs just so I can fly .. of course being paid for it would be a nice bonus!
I realise now is a bad time, but a few years down the line there should hopefully be options. FI / Air Taxi already mentioned, but what about freight, surveying, what other areas are worth considering? Will a CPL suffice or is training up to FATPL level generally required by companies who can presumably be choosy at the moment?
I really want to fly, but don't think an airline job is right for me. I am happy to work another jobs just so I can fly .. of course being paid for it would be a nice bonus!
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: UK
Guys
Some people make the assumption that freight,bizz jets, air taxi,crop sprayin and other non-airline jobs are easier to come by as they are seen by some to be lower paid and less attractive. Let me tell you that in this current market they most certainly are not!! We got 5000 hr Jet Captains queing to fly piston twins at the mo!! Even instructing jobs have taken a big bashing! Dont kid yourselves that by lowering your sights, you are more likely to get a job!
Maybe in better times...but not as the market is now!
Shaun Ryders comment....and i quote
"This may apply to some oxford chump who's never seen a real aeroplane since flight school. Some of us have previous I will let you know. Piston twins fly at a fraction the speed/ altitude of a turbojet aeroplane, sometimes with far more advanced avionics that you will find on the flightdeck of one. Talk about yourself maybe but that is a bit of sweeping statement."
100% correct....well said!
Some people make the assumption that freight,bizz jets, air taxi,crop sprayin and other non-airline jobs are easier to come by as they are seen by some to be lower paid and less attractive. Let me tell you that in this current market they most certainly are not!! We got 5000 hr Jet Captains queing to fly piston twins at the mo!! Even instructing jobs have taken a big bashing! Dont kid yourselves that by lowering your sights, you are more likely to get a job!
Maybe in better times...but not as the market is now!
Shaun Ryders comment....and i quote
"This may apply to some oxford chump who's never seen a real aeroplane since flight school. Some of us have previous I will let you know. Piston twins fly at a fraction the speed/ altitude of a turbojet aeroplane, sometimes with far more advanced avionics that you will find on the flightdeck of one. Talk about yourself maybe but that is a bit of sweeping statement."
100% correct....well said!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
From: Vigo-Spain
Hi guys!
glad to see I'm not the only one thinking aviation exists beyond airlines as a career choice.
The problem is that usually smaller operators don't offer the same stability and lifestyle that airline flying does.
Nevertheless... if you are fond of instructing, at least as far as I know, the turning point seems to be the "IRI". Once you get "IRI" and CRI ratings pay gets better and especially it's a bit easier to find decent paying jobs, at least in Europe. Apart from money you will log interesting IFR and ME time which could lead you to different kinds of flying, if you are interested.
I enjoy instructing and as I can't afford (or take up the risk, as you might want to see it) of a SSTR I'm leaned towards working my way up instructing, so I can make a living out of it, and eventually, if the opportunity arises, get to fly something different.
In the end might not be very lucrative, but I enjoyed instructing way more than flipping burgers and off-loading trucks.
But please if you instruct, by all means be professional and supportive with students. Hate to see "logbook junkies".
Cheers / Pablo
glad to see I'm not the only one thinking aviation exists beyond airlines as a career choice.
The problem is that usually smaller operators don't offer the same stability and lifestyle that airline flying does.
Nevertheless... if you are fond of instructing, at least as far as I know, the turning point seems to be the "IRI". Once you get "IRI" and CRI ratings pay gets better and especially it's a bit easier to find decent paying jobs, at least in Europe. Apart from money you will log interesting IFR and ME time which could lead you to different kinds of flying, if you are interested.
I enjoy instructing and as I can't afford (or take up the risk, as you might want to see it) of a SSTR I'm leaned towards working my way up instructing, so I can make a living out of it, and eventually, if the opportunity arises, get to fly something different.
In the end might not be very lucrative, but I enjoyed instructing way more than flipping burgers and off-loading trucks.
But please if you instruct, by all means be professional and supportive with students. Hate to see "logbook junkies".
Cheers / Pablo
