IFR COMM ATPL question
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Here and there
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IFR COMM ATPL question
Just sat the IFR COMM ATPL exam (has anybody failed the COMM exams?) and there was a question I had not seen before and could not find via Google.
Just curious what the answer would be.
Question (as far as I remember correctly): How does one state that the aircraft cannot use 8,33 frequency spacing?
Answer options (as far as I remember correctly):
1: Unable eight point three three
2: Unable eight point three three capability
3: Unable eight decimal three three frequency capability
4: Can't remember
I decided on 3 as it stated "decimal" in the answer rather than "point". Coming from FAA-land this is a small annoyance. Anyone know the answer definitively?
Just curious what the answer would be.
Question (as far as I remember correctly): How does one state that the aircraft cannot use 8,33 frequency spacing?
Answer options (as far as I remember correctly):
1: Unable eight point three three
2: Unable eight point three three capability
3: Unable eight decimal three three frequency capability
4: Can't remember
I decided on 3 as it stated "decimal" in the answer rather than "point". Coming from FAA-land this is a small annoyance. Anyone know the answer definitively?
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Age: 53
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
found this:
4 PHRASEOLOGY TO BE USED IN AIRSPACE WHERE 8.33 kHz CHANNEL
SPACING IS USED
NOTE: The following paragraphs have been extacted from Doc. 7030, Regional Supplementary
Procedures and apply to all aircraft operating above FL 245 in the European region
CIRCUMSTANCES PHRASEOLOGIES (Pilot Transmission in Bold Type)
4.2.1 (Reference Part X, 4.3.1)
...to request the capability of the radio ADVISE EIGHT POINT THREE THREE EQUIPED
equipment
...to indicate 8.33 kHz capability AFFIRM EIGHT POINT THREE THREE
...to indicate lack of 8.33 kHz capability NEGATIVE EIGHT POINT THREE THREE
...to indicate UHF capability UHF EQUIPED
...to request the status ADVISE EIGHT POINT THREE THREE
in respect of exemption EXEMPTED STATUS
...to indicate 8.33 kHz exempted status (aircraft call sign) EXEMPTED EIGHT
POINT THREE THREE
...to indicate that a certain clearance is (clearance / instruction) DUE EIGHT POINT THREE
given because otherwise a THREE REQUIREMENT
non-equipped aircraft would enter
the airspace of mandatory carriage
4 PHRASEOLOGY TO BE USED IN AIRSPACE WHERE 8.33 kHz CHANNEL
SPACING IS USED
NOTE: The following paragraphs have been extacted from Doc. 7030, Regional Supplementary
Procedures and apply to all aircraft operating above FL 245 in the European region
CIRCUMSTANCES PHRASEOLOGIES (Pilot Transmission in Bold Type)
4.2.1 (Reference Part X, 4.3.1)
...to request the capability of the radio ADVISE EIGHT POINT THREE THREE EQUIPED
equipment
...to indicate 8.33 kHz capability AFFIRM EIGHT POINT THREE THREE
...to indicate lack of 8.33 kHz capability NEGATIVE EIGHT POINT THREE THREE
...to indicate UHF capability UHF EQUIPED
...to request the status ADVISE EIGHT POINT THREE THREE
in respect of exemption EXEMPTED STATUS
...to indicate 8.33 kHz exempted status (aircraft call sign) EXEMPTED EIGHT
POINT THREE THREE
...to indicate that a certain clearance is (clearance / instruction) DUE EIGHT POINT THREE
given because otherwise a THREE REQUIREMENT
non-equipped aircraft would enter
the airspace of mandatory carriage
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Here and there
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mad_jock, if you mean that all the possible answers I listed are wrong, then it is merely me that did not remember the specific wording after the exam.
I am sure the text that sion22 found is the correct one.
I am sure the text that sion22 found is the correct one.
Upto The Buffers
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Leeds/Bradford
Age: 48
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mad_jock is correct; they're all wrong. CAP413 states "negative eight point three three", as does the doc quoted above. If I got that question in an exam, I would appeal it.
Don't confuse point/decimal in this instance... Decimal is used when reading back a frequency (one two three decimal seven five zero), whereas point is used when describing a frequency spacing (eight point three three).
Don't confuse point/decimal in this instance... Decimal is used when reading back a frequency (one two three decimal seven five zero), whereas point is used when describing a frequency spacing (eight point three three).
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: ireland
Age: 38
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Errrrr... three.
Phoenetics don't alter the base meaning of words. 'Tree', 'Aight', 'Fower' etc should only be used in training manuals to demonstrate to the student the correct way of speaking the words.
The fact is, somebody reading that document is assumed to understand this already. It'd be like writing French out as... "Bon-jaw mon-sewer..." etc etc in every single text other than French dictionaries!
Although I apologise in advance in case this wasn't your point whatsoever!
Phoenetics don't alter the base meaning of words. 'Tree', 'Aight', 'Fower' etc should only be used in training manuals to demonstrate to the student the correct way of speaking the words.
The fact is, somebody reading that document is assumed to understand this already. It'd be like writing French out as... "Bon-jaw mon-sewer..." etc etc in every single text other than French dictionaries!
Although I apologise in advance in case this wasn't your point whatsoever!
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Still a ****e exam and a waste of bloody money 7 mins sitting at a desk and then out the door for 50 quid. Mind you it gives a wannabie a warm feeling that their average has gone up with a 100% banker of an exam. Makes cock all difference when applying for jobs mind.
And if they did actually use the proper phoenetics in all the examples there might be a danger of people actually using them.
And if they did actually use the proper phoenetics in all the examples there might be a danger of people actually using them.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can safely assume that if this comes up in the exam, tick the one you know is correct, even if you disagree with the answer.
Appealing a question is borderline useless these days.
Appealing a question is borderline useless these days.
"And CAP 413 is also wrong"
The JAA exams are based upon ICAO Communications, not UK.
CAP 413 is not wrong, therefore, for the examinations.
Doc 4444 might help.
LM (JAA ATPL instructor).
The JAA exams are based upon ICAO Communications, not UK.
CAP 413 is not wrong, therefore, for the examinations.
Doc 4444 might help.
LM (JAA ATPL instructor).
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 72
Posts: 4,156
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes
on
14 Posts
"The JAA exams are based upon ICAO Communications, not UK"
Not to be picky, but the ICAO documentation actually follows CAP 413 in practice.
phil
Not to be picky, but the ICAO documentation actually follows CAP 413 in practice.
phil
