Drop out of A levels - start working at PPL?

[MikadoTrident]

I'm really considering dropping out of 6th form to carry on at the PPL having more frequent lessons with a part time job. I'm really not enjoying college and am struggling with my subjects and it's too late to change. There's a big chance that i'm going to fail my modules next week and this would result in me being thrown out. If that's the case should i just "start young" (17) and find a good part-time job to fund for my training. (i'm doing modular btw).

Are A levels really important for being an airline pilot?

(sorry if i sound naive i just need help).

Thanks.

[student88]

You'll get a lot of people on here telling you that it'd be a wise idea to get your A Levels under your belt because it makes for better competition on the CV pile. Well, the CV pile is out the window at the moment as there are big boys on it with thousands and thousands of hours of heavy jet experience.

I can sympathise with you - I hated college and didn't want to be there. I am useless at studying for something when I have no interest in doing it. I'm not going to patronise you, but I'm sure you're aware that this is possibly the worse time for wannabe pilots.

It's a decision only you can make. You're obviously young so you're in no rush to get committed to a training programme - although you've already made a good choice as you've indicated you're going to pursue the modular route!

What A Levels are you doing? What sort of job is it you have?

[Grass strip basher]

Key question is where are you going to get the money from to train?
Only quit your A-levels if you have a trade to go to to generate cash.... e.g. plumber, electrician, armed services etc etc.
Personally if I were recruiting and had a pile of CVs yes the fact that you didn't complete you A-levels would mean that your application would be filed in the round filing cabinet next to the desk.... why would an airline hire you rather than someone with the same little blue book but a better track record at sticking with things and an ability to learn?.... but hey thats just my opinion... many on hear will say it doesn't matter.

[student88]

Let's put it this way - you won't go through your career as a pilot never getting a job because you don't have A Levels. A Levels or not, you'll probably end up applying for lots and lots of positions before you get big break. A Levels don't show anything about your flying ability or what you're like to work with.

Unfortunately the recruiters don't know that.

GSB speaks wise words. You'll be taking a big gamble.

[student88]

Don't get me wrong Callum, I totally agree with you; but it's important to establish what sort of employment he'd be leaving college for. As GSB says, some jobs justify the move more than others.

[Aerouk]

What type of job are you expecting to get without any A-Levels? A number of my fellow University graduates are getting sweet all, not even basic jobs.

Even becoming a plumber, joiner etc. requires you to do a college course.

Will A-levels make you a better pilot? Hell no, I'm sure there are a number of pilots out there with no qualifications at all. The problem is that there are very few jobs these days that require little to no qualifications. Most people have at least a couple of A-Levels these days so you're going to end up putting yourself to a disadvantage.

Work hard and you won't fail, sit and moan about failing and you will fail.

I worked two jobs (one of which was voluntary) while studying my degree and got my PPL completed, so it is possible.

[Whirlygig]

I decided to study apllied science and geography, didnt realisde how booring they were

If you think Applied Science and Geography are boring, wait until you get to Air Law and Ops Procedures.

If your attitude is that Air Law and Ops are necessary evils to be studied and passed in order to achieve your goals, then great. Apply that attitude to your A Levels.

Cheers

Whirls

[TheBeak]

DO NOT DROP OUT OF YOUR A LEVELS. If you are finding school and A levels tough and boring, you genuinely stand no chance with flying - training or the job. You wont like the academia of ATPLs and you wont like the timetabling of your job. Your current mindset and attitude is not going to lead you to big things pal, stick with your A Levels. It's the best place to be in the current economic climate, I would swap with you every day of the next 2 years.

I don't believe the plan you are putting forward is to become a plumber or a builder or a whatever and earn and learn - I think you think you're going to get a job as a baggage handler or a dispatcher or something around the airport and it's all going to be interesting and exciting. I have news for you, you stand no chance. There are 20 applicants to 1 job.

And a PPL in your position? Very expensive to maintain and doesn't even scratch the surface of what is required. Once you have it where are you going to get the 5K for the CPL? The 11K for the IR? The 3K for the ATPLs? The 5K for the hour building? The 5K for living? The sufficient knowledge to pass the ATPLs?

Sure getting a PPL is a great idea and getting it as young as possible and paying for it yourself is admirable. But your post, as shallow as it is, displays worrying signs of failure. I am not trying to be rude and there is no reason you can not achieve your ambition of being a paid pilot but walk before you can run, be patient, don't throw away your current timing advantage and stay focussed.

Winners never quit and quitters never win. Never forget that and you'll be fine.

[buzzc152]

If you can't apply yourself to work in a highly structured and supported environment like college (and A levels aren't exactly hard) then you've no chance of passing the ATPL's and beyond.

Do yourself a large favour.....accept that right now you are niave and inexperienced and listen to the advice of your elders, parents, teachers etc etc. Dropping out of college at such an early stage is madness.

[Capt Pit Bull]

The big conceptual difference between GCSEs and A levels is that at GCSE you are totally spoon fed everything but A levels, to an extent, require you to be more involved in your own development. In otherwords it not just about what you learn, but also learning how to learn.

And trust me, if you don't know how to learn before you start the ATPLs you will do by the end. Really, A levels are pretty small fry compared to the ATPL sylabus, so frankly you need to learn to stick with your nose to the grind stone until you figure out what your conceptual problem is with theoretical learning.

But, ultimately, the factual knowledge within many A levels is not that relevant to an ATPL (although some science will be).

One thing I would caution though is if you do decide to stop your A levels, stop refering to it as 'dropping out'. That phrase has quite a negative association with it. It sounds very much like "I couldn't be bothered", so I would steer away from those particular words if I were you.

pb

[Journey Man]

Originally Posted by callum

That is true, but whats the point in him being there if hes not enjoying himself. He could be earning money to pay for training?

@MikadoTrident

Whilst the above is a reasonable assertion however any qualification represents a commitment to something and also an ability to study, as has been mentioned. Academic study is a large part of aviation, principally in passing your CPL/ATPL theory examinations and as you move to different types, etc... Airlines will assess you on whatever you have, and if you have dropped out of your A-Levels, they'll will draw conclusions from that - whether right or wrong.

It has been said here that you don't need A-Levels to fly, and that is certainly true. It doesn't answer the question of whether it's beneficial or not. In some job flying positions you definitely do need technical knowledge of systems, engines, etc... The ATPL theoretical learning is the bare minimum of knowledge and a healthy level of further knowledge is never detrimental.

I think you're on the right track doing your A-levels, especially considering the current market conditions. If you are going to leave, then look at an apprenticeship in the aviation world. Some people suit a more hands on approach, and I think many jobs would be better served by a learnig process involving apprentices rather than colleges and universities producing graduates with no practical or real world experience. Before anyone gets offended, I have a degree in engineering and wholeheartedly feel there should have been a lot more practical experience - or a year placement in industry, which wasn't offered even though the university I attended was considered to be in the top five for engineering. Now I'm starting to digress.

Final point. It appears to me that you're looking for a reasons to get out of your A-levels because you're concerned about your future performance. I would say this to you - rise to the challenge. Find out what it is you need to do to recoup a decent grade. Maybe that means restarting a module? You must have some career guidance personnel who can advise you, so find out know what you need to do to have a decent run at your A-levels and then get your head down for two years. A year or two of your life now could save you many years off your career path in the future. Whilst things may all be golden without A-levels, considering the current climate you haven't got too much to lose by sticking them out and getting the qualifications. If you do decide to stick them out, which I'm sure you are capable of, really commit to them and give them your all as they will be a yardstick of your academic prowess.

All the best in whatever you decide. As has also been said, only you know can know ultimately decide. Good luck!

[JohnRayner]

When I did my A-levels back in the day when pocket watches and OUTRAGEOUS mosschops where the order of the day, there were always people who'd ended up on the A-level courses who shouldn't have been there. With a bit of decent careers advice a lot of these ended up on more vocational type courses, and went on to do very well.

To the OP. Don't carry on with something if it's making you genuinely miserable. It's never worth it, unless you're fixated on the gain at the end (sports cars, page 3 models. whatever)

The flip side is that you you DO need to do something with your time. What's your definition of "a good part time job" at 17 with no qualifications? I did some WITH A levels, and none of them were remotely "good". Mind numbingly painful with only the weekend to look forward to, yes. Good, no. And how many years of this sort of work will you need to do to fund the £40k (minimum I'd have thought) costs of training. Not to mention that little thing called having any sort of life. More than one or two. Way more.

In fact, I took a year out between A-levels and Uni to see what there was, because I wasn't convinced Uni was for me. Couldn't afford to wander round the world scratching myself in the modern idiom, so did said part time jobs instead. Biggest kick up the erse to get me to do something, ANYTHING that I needed to avoid working long term in the sort of places that would have me with the qualifications I had. Turns out my brother-in-law had the same epiphany.

At 17 you could e.g. dump the A-levels if they're really that bad, train up in something else in a year or two, find some better paid work off the back of that, work and train side by side (training rate and intensity to suit you), come out the other end minimally indebted, fATPLed up, with an alternative career and ONLY IN YOUR EARLY TWENTIES!!

Or you could suck the A-levels up, get them done, and use them for whatever you want to use them for. Am I still right in thinking that they're basically pre-Uni qualifications?

While I know how serious the young potential pilot is about wanting that job, and I know how much effort they want to put into it, your plan as you describe it, will look to someone else pretty much like this:

Reasonably bright chap/ess, doing A levels, couldn't be bothered, quit, now doing crappy dead end job to fund their hobby. Which is all a PPL is to begin with.

Good luck with your choices, make some good ones!

JR

[Halfbaked_Boy]

MikadoTrident,

The replies above regarding how difficult and threatening etc the ATPL ground theory is are absolute rubbish. I found A Levels killer. ATPLs were a breath of fresh air in comparison.

Just thought I'd point it out from somebody who was once in a similar position.

Good luck with your decisions.

[INNflight]

A Levels don't show anything about your flying ability or what you're like to work with.

Unfortunately the recruiters don't know that.

That's nonsense - of course they know that!

What you don't seem to understand is that WHY would a chief pilot / recruiter pick one without A-levels, if there's 500 in line after him who all have them?!?!?

[FliegerTiger]

The UK is unusual in that A-levels are not usually required to become an airline pilot (unless you are doing some kind of sponsorship)....most other countries will need at LEAST A-levels, some a degree.......

[student88]

And a PPL in your position? Very expensive to maintain and doesn't even scratch the surface of what is required.

- couldn't agree with you more, don't get your PPL until you're in a position to maintain it. In the first two years after you pass you need to fly 12 hours with at least 1 hour with an instructor ( 12*120=1440 - and that's assuming a cheap aircraft hire rate, not including the £40 you'll have to bung the instructor with)

What type of job are you expecting to get without any A-Levels? A number of my fellow University graduates are getting sweet all, not even basic jobs.

You can apply to NATS to become an Air Traffic Controller without A Levels.
Eligibility - Jobs and careers at NATS

What you don't seem to understand is that WHY would a chief pilot / recruiter pick one without A-levels, if there's 500 in line after him who all have them?!?!?

- I know exactly what you mean INNflight, however I was making the point regarding getting from having your CV on a desk in HR to being invited to interview - which is commonly the greatest hurdle of all.

[AJ1990]

Stick at it!

I've been in your situation myself. After my first year at Sixth Form my results were far from pretty, CDDE. I understand where you come from but it really is a case of sticking at it. I wanted to leave too and the pressing desire to commence my flight training was always there as well. The grass isn't as green as you mite think though. As mentioned above times are tough in the industry, but every industry is struggling. Finding a part-time job in anything at the moment is difficult, I managed to get myself a job as a barmen after searching for near-on two months for anything

Your A-Level results are dictated by what you put in. After pulling my finger out I managed to up my results to BBB with nothing but hard work. If your still in your first year you have plenty of time to repair any damage already done. If your in your second like I was, it's time to knuckle down!

You will never be disadvantaged for having qualifications, only having too few. All the best in your decision

[Mickey Kaye]

Here is my take – based on my experience.

There is no point it doing anything if you don’t enjoy doing it. This will more than likely mean that you will get crap ‘A’ level results which aren’t worth the paper they are written on.

I started full time employment at 15 and started saving the cash to pay for my flight training. I worked at least two jobs all of them would now be described as minimal wage. Toilet cleaner, warehouse worker, loading the mail at EMA, van driver, baggage handler, ramp work, forklift driver. And I paid for one lesson a fortnight. 18 months later I had my PPL. I then saved 5 grand and which paid for my hour building and multi rating. IMC, CPL and AFI followed all this took my about 7 years and I never got into debt.

A few months into my first instructing job I had health problems and lost my medical.

By this time I learnt how to apply myself and I also realised that minimum wage jobs are pretty ****y. And if I wanted get away from them you had to get qualified.

So back to school it was. This time I was a much more driven. I realised it was good ‘A’ level grades or minimum wage jobs. I aced the ‘A’ levels as well as two degrees. Although I don’t earn huge money I certainly have the potential to do so.

The two positives that I look back on are the fact that I didn’t have any debt and the fact that I hadn’t done ‘A’ levels when I didn’t want to. I would have got crap grades which don’t open many doors. However when you have top grades you really can pick and choose your future career.

Good luck with whatever choice you make.

ps make sure the first thing you do is get a class one medical.

[MikadoTrident]

Thanks all for responses, will take them all into consideration. My real concern now is that i'm REALLY struggling to just get E's/D's and the subjects i'm doing are Bussiness, Geography and Psychology. Just wondering whether these subjects with lowish grades really be something worth having?

[student88]

If you can scrape 3 C's that'd be good. Realistically they don't look at anything below A* - C grade. 3 C's are better than nothing, and show that you can start something and finish it.

Good luck, let us know what you decide to do.