Atpl Theory And Jar 36 Month Limit? Help!!

[MAXTHRUSTV1]

Hi all,

I am a UK pilot with a JAA PPL MEIR and passed the JAR ATPL theory in the UK. Im almost at the end of my 36 month limit stated in Lasors and i only need complete my 15HR SE CPL according to the rules? The problem is im not able to fund my CPL as i have been laid off twice in the past two years due to the companies closing so have been like many others unable to fund my final CPL training.

I have heard a rumor that as long as i passed my IR within the 36 month time frame you do not need to complete the CPL within the limit is this true?

I am desperate to find out because if its not and i must complete the CPL i will most likely have to sit all 14 ATPL exams again!!

Any information will be great news!!

Thanks

MAX

[Curtis E Carr]

From LASORS:

J1.7 JAR-FCL THEORETICAL
KNOWLEDGE EXAMINATION
ACCEPTANCE PERIOD

Potential candidates for the JAR-FCL ATPL theoretical
knowledge examinations should first consider the
implications of JAR-FCL 1.495 or 2.495 that relates to the
Acceptance Period.

A pass in the ATPL theory examinations will be accepted
for the issue of a CPL or IR during the 36 months from
the end of the month of the date of the final pass in the
examinations*. Provided that an IR is obtained during
this period, a pass in the ATPL theoretical knowledge
examinations will remain valid (for the purpose of ATPL
issue) for a period of 7 years from the validity date of the
most recent renewal IR entered in the CPL.

* All requirements for the issue of the CPL and IR must
be met and the applicant required to apply to PLD for
issue within the 36 month validity period of the theoretical
knowledge examination.

Failure to comply with Acceptance Period

If a CPL and IR are not granted within the 36 month
acceptance period then the ATPL theory credit will lapse.
Candidates will be required to re-pass all ATPL theoretical
knowledge examinations to regain ATPL theory credit.
However, it has been agreed that where a candidate
has previously passed all ATPL theoretical knowledge
examinations but were not granted a CPL/IR within the 36
month acceptance period, the amount of ATPL theoretical
knowledge instruction will be at the discretion of the Head
of Training of the Approved FTO.

[Shunter]

True, that's what LASORS says. The latest edition of LASORS is, err, 2008.

Alex from bristol.gs mentioned recently that there were some cases of people doing exactly what you suggest; having their ATPL theory credits frozen by completing the IR (as opposed to IR and CPL). Would be useful to get some clarification on that.

[potkettleblack]

Call the CAA, speak to someone. Get their name and email address. Email them direct as a follow up to your telephone call and ensure you get their written reply. When you write to them make sure it is very factual quoting the relevant sections of LASORS so that there is no room for maneuver at a later date. If you don't have it on paper then it will be worth nought at a later date when you end up in a big stoush with them.

Remember the CAA has a civil service mentality. If something is written down then its gospel and they will be loath to go against it at a later date due to your threat of legal action. Sad but true.

[MAXTHRUSTV1]

Thanks for all the replies! I contacted the CAA today who were no help at all spoke to the advisor who said look at Lasors and the manager said the same thing. I can understand that it is in Lasors but it must have been published some place or in the pipeline that an IR alone will freeze the ATPL credits for people to be talking about it?? I am also unable to get an extension being made redundant does not qualify which i would normally accept but in todays current situation i think it should be reviewed!

Looks like all 14 ATPL again or going the FAA route and then converting to save the trouble?

MAX

[smith]

Not so fast Max

Provided that an IR is obtained during
this period, a pass in the ATPL theoretical knowledge
examinations will remain valid (for the purpose of ATPL
issue) for a period of 7 years from the validity date of the
most recent renewal IR entered in the CPL

I was under the impression that the IR only was needed within three years, thus increasing the validity to seven years. Am I wrong in this?

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Smith,

That is how I understand it also, but stand to be corrected.

[wheelbrace]

Finger out, MaxthrustV1!

'...Provided that an IR is obtained during
this period, a pass in the ATPL theoretical knowledge
examinations will remain valid (for the purpose of ATPL
issue) for a period of 7 years from the validity date of the
most recent renewal IR entered in the CPL.'

This is the most crucial point - the IR is applied to a valid CPL (ie you have already achieved the CP licence) in order to have the privilege of a glittery sub zero ATPL AND a socking great debt.

If you fail to have applied for either IR AND CPL before the 36 months is up, then you must, at best, resit those that the HOT at the FTO deems necessary. At worst? The lot. Oh - and no fATPL AND a socking great debt.

MaxthrustV1 - do what is necessary NOW! Sell your grandmother, neighbours' house, sister's kidney - you name it. You may otherwise despise yourself.

[hughesyd]

just to throw more confusion into the mix!!, i was recently told by a freind of mine that if you gain a CPL but not the IR within the 36 months, you wont have to sit all 14 exams again , but only 7 of them. seems it has been done before. Remember the CPL is a licence and the IR is a rating. Anyone aware of such a ruling deep in the CAA vaults of rules and regs??

[hughesyd]

a red herring then maybe?

i was lead to beleive that once the cpl was passed 7 of those exams were safe and you only had to resit the other 7 to get the frozen ATPL if you went over the 36 months

[RVR800]

Provider Driven Training

The problem is that the IR exams + CPL exams do not = ATPL exams

The whole thing is ridiculous - why these exams expire so quickly is beyond me its really intended to force people who on the modular route to pay up quickly and get the whole thing done

They dont want people all pitching up to do the IR when the airlines start to re-hire - its inconvenient for them...