Australian PPL and CPL options...

[RyanSydney]

Hey there,
i am wondering if anyone can help me,
im 23 years old and wanting a career as a commercial pilot, i have done some flying and want to persue it as a career, BUT, i have two worries, cost and age.

first, am i too old to start my training now to have a chance of getting a job in the airlines?

and second, what do u think is the best path?

is it the 80K track through a flight school, complete with intrument ratings, instructor ratings, dual endorsment etc?

or maybe casually flying on the weekend and home study at a leisurely pace?

or as someone told me last week,
TAFE full time study for PPL CPL and even ATPL then once completed, pump out the flying hours?

im thinking of starting tafe next yr (jan) for 6 months full time then spending maybe 20-30K in gaining ppl/cpl/single engine and trying to get in the workforce in northan australia?

sorry for the lengthy post but im really stressed i may have left this career change too late and that maybe my 20-25K will realisticly not be enough?

any help much appreciated

Thank you

Ryan Sydney

[tmpffisch]

RyanSydney, 20-25k is definatly not nearly enough. In reality, not even half!

You will however got a PPL for that and maybe 30 additional hours solo.

Probably worth checking the other million or so threads asking the same thing.

Oh, and you're not too old either. 23 is a good age to start.

[RyanSydney]

thanks for ur reply.

what do you think the bare essentials would be to get a start flying as a job? anything? crop dusting? scenic? hearding? the bottom on the rock pool?

money and endorsement wise?

thanks again!

[tmpffisch]

Bare essentials? CPL. However a multi endorsement and NVFR are preferable (and are my info is based on)

At current prices here in Melbourne:

For a PPL, expect around $16,000.
For a CPL with multi endorsement in a PA44 (complex aircraft which is required for CPL), and NVFR expect about another $24,000. You should easily be able to accumulate $9000 in other costs such as AirServices publications, theory books and/or lessons, uniform, CASA fees, medical, ASIC.

Even at the bottom of the rockpool, most would have multi & NVFR, as it's normally incorporated in the 150hr syllabus.

[RyanSydney]

has anyone done their theory through tafe college then funded your own flying?

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Crop dusting and Hearding (sic) do you mean mustering? aren't really starter jobs and certianly not the bottom of the rock pool, don't let any of those very skilled guys who do that kind of work for a living hear you say that!

I once had someone ask could they fly for the RFDS while building hours for the CPL...

Realistically your first job would be day VFR single engine work, such as scenics, fish spotting etc. Unlikely to get any multi IFR type work with less than 500 hours and I advise people to get a bit of experience up before doing those courses.

We all have to work our way to where we want to go with our flying, and whether you are flying tourists around in a C210 or captain of an A380, you are a professional pilot. Enjoy every step of the way.

Good luck!

[ReverseFlight]

RyanSydney, it really depends on whether you are funding your proposed training yourself (i.e. not from parents/banks). If that were the case, then you may consider working and earning money on your present job and conducting your training part-time - being only 23, you have the luxury of time on your side. Once you've completed all your training, that would be a good time to jump into the industry full-time (assuming the economy has recovered by that time). If you have parents to support you, by all means train full-time. I don't think adding uni or tafe on top of that will gain you any advantage in the aviation industry unless you're going into management (a non-flying role) but that's not usual at your age.

[RyanSydney]

Thanks,

I will be funding my own training out of my own pocket. I am a builder and earn approx 60k a year, I have moved home and intend to start training next jan, with approx 30k in my pocket. Also taking a 60k paycut.

To save money, i was exploring the options of doing my theory subjects through TAFE and was wondering if anyone has done this.

Im trying to find the best way to get from today, to some stage down the track working as a pilot. Flying anywhere, flying anything.

Also my apologies to anyone who i upset , as a newbie, i am still learning the ins and outs of the industry!

Thanks once again for any suggestions or replys, each and every opinion and experience is great to hear.. My brain is like a sponge at the moment!

[tmpffisch]

If you're wanting to save money, why not self-study instead of going to TAFE for groundschooling.

[MikeTangoEcho]

Gday Ryan,

I am 23 too and doing my flight training off my own back (wish I started earlier mind you, when the folks were happy to pay for anything educational). Only problem I have found is that it is taking me FOREVER. I can only fly weekends and obviously if the weather is no good then you don't fly at all. Then if it's 2 or 3+ weeks between flights you lose time and 'currency' getting familiar with the plane again. Full time is something I would definitely look into for CPL because the more often you can do it the easier it is to retain info.

TAFE and uni is an option and I'm not speaking from any experience here but personally I would prefer to do ground school at a dedicated aero club. Obviously thats for you to decide and who knows it might work for you.

I self study, and find I can get the results I want doing it this way. It will save you money, just as long as you are motivated.

This flying business gets very expensive so if your parents are willing to chip in for your training I'd say jump at it. If you do have 30k handy I'm sure they wouldn't mind you paying for some as well.

So thats my 2c, good luck with whatever you decide to do





.

[desert goat]

Just something to think about here- Under the aussie rules, only 100 out of the 200 hours needed for the CPL have to be in an aeroplane. If you aren't looking to get into serious training until January, you might consider joining a gliding club in the meantime and fly every other weekend, thus getting some basic ab-initio stuff out of the way between now and the end of the year? It'll give you a head start towards the GFPT when you convert onto powered aircraft, plus you might enjoy the gliding for it's own sake. I'd imagine that you should be able to get solo before the years out if you turn up at least every other weekend, and you'll then spend less dough learning basic flying skills in a GA aircraft before you start your navs.
I'm in a similar position as yourself-24, PPL done, trying to scrape the cash together to finish the CPL and head bush- and in hindsight I think it would have been smarter to get solo in gliders and then attack the GFPT/PPL from a cost point of view.
Some flying schools will try to say that the gliding hours hours won't count, but the CARS and Day VFR syllabus say they do, unless you intend doing an integrated 150 hour course. Just an idea.

[DoNotTurnBack]

gday all

ryan for a second i thought that was my post as im 23 and have just began my training, i too want to get my cpl and want to be an ag pilot and will be enrolling at tafe first semester nxt year to do cpl theory course.

my piece of advise will follow through the same as desert goatmentioned.
start on gliding and then move your way into ga, (dont bother with RA and i dont mean it in any disrepect, but the cost equal the same as ga) so i start with gliding mainly for:
1. its cheaper and as he mentioned you get a head start on learing the basic of flight.
2. it will count towars tt
3. imagine have an engine fail when in a powered aircraft and had to do a f.l, well you kinda have that training anyway from your gliding days.
4. it will build your confidence.

and its great fun and just another safe way of getting up in the air.


good luck with it ryan
Where about from sydney you from?

DNTB

[tmpffisch]

I don't want to discredit gliding in anyway, nor the skills in gliding pilots, but when you're looking at the gliding option in terms of a CPL licence, consider this:

• In a forced landing, you have 2 options. Fly at the best glide speed, or don't fly at the best glide speed. The ONLY option you have to gain maximum range in a forced landing is to glide at the best glide speed, and nothing else. Gliding skills do not come into it at all...just ask Sully....experienced glider pilot, and he made it very clear that gliding experience didn't particularly help a 40,000kg+ airplane. Throughout your studies, from pre-area solo to ATPL, this gets reinforced over and over again.
• Think about the way an employer will look upon experience in something other than a powered airplane, when trying to get a job with minimum experience. Would the employer prefer the guy with 150 hours experience in an actual aircraft similar to what his employment would entail, or the pilot without? Command experience, flying with pax, decision making about weather etc is crucial when you have a licence to fly pax for $, but little actual experience doing so.
• Keep in mind experience in anything other than a powered aircraft on the VH register can not be counted towards the 150hr syllabus, thus meaning you also are required to pay GST (aka another 10%) ontop of your training costs.

[RyanSydney]

Thanks for all the responses. There is definately no right or wrong answers, these are all just various ppls opinions which is in this case exactly what im after!

At the moment im thinking i will have a spare 30k up my sleeve plus another 10 from the bank, ready to enrol in a 150hr CPL full time course which will give me some bare qualifications and will at least make me employeabe to someone. If a job in the bush doesnt come my way, so be it, back to the old job and saving for various other endorsments to make me more empoyable.

So late december i will be sniffing around for the best school, DNTB i live in sydney but have accommodation available to me near newcastle and bas air in cessnock offer a CPL 150hr course for about 36K so thats something i think i will be further investigating, unless anyone else has any other ideas?

feel free, throw any comments/ideas/suggestions up.. I can say that PPRUNE and everyone on here with their opinions have been probably my most valuable asset so far in searching for information on training..!

[desert goat]

Hey Ryan-
If you havent already, don't forget to have a browse around the downunder forums-quite a few threads in there from people in the same boat.
Cheers

[Diversion90]

Ryan, you are able to self study the CPL course yourself I highly recommend Bob Taits set of books.

I agree with what MikeTangoEcho has written about doing the big sections like CPL in a bit hit. Training up to GFPT you can get away with flying a couple of times a week, however when doing PPL navs doing 3 a week till they are done is a great way to get through it and then you could drop it back whilst you build command hours for CPL this is what ive done. Before you ramp up the flying for the CPL flights.

[bournebourne]

Crop dusting and Hearding (sic) do you mean mustering? aren't really starter jobs and certianly not the bottom of the rock pool, don't let any of those very skilled guys who do that kind of work for a living hear you say that!

Well said Charlie Foxtrot India... Mustering and or Ag I think is thee hardest flying in the world!

[rit]

I am doing opposite way to you Ryansydney.
I am now B737 pilot but consider change to a builder as I am still after Australian license and waiting for a pilot job in Melbourne.haha

[RyanSydney]

Ah rit..
please don't do it!

Stay up in the air!!!