IR (multi or single engine)
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
From: everywhere
If you want to fly airliners or jets then you'll need and MEIR. If you do the SEIR you'll still need to do an MEIR. If you do the MEIR you can fly SEIR.
I would do the MEIR. If you want to instruct etc for a bit wait until you are ready for multi engine stuff before you do it, it is expensive and a bitch to renew every year.
I would do the MEIR. If you want to instruct etc for a bit wait until you are ready for multi engine stuff before you do it, it is expensive and a bitch to renew every year.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
From: everywhere
Ok well go for it but without wishing to reiterate the same thing time and time again, wait to do it, there is no point having an IR you can't use and then spend £1200 a year to revalidate it and not use it.
I would recommend a DA42 operator for the IR, it is an awesome plane to fly and allows you to focus on the instrument side of things. Atlantic perhaps. Price is going to be much the same everywhere in the UK, pick soemwhere that can give you good consistency and try and have it put in some form of contract that it'll be assured within reasonable means.
I would recommend a DA42 operator for the IR, it is an awesome plane to fly and allows you to focus on the instrument side of things. Atlantic perhaps. Price is going to be much the same everywhere in the UK, pick soemwhere that can give you good consistency and try and have it put in some form of contract that it'll be assured within reasonable means.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 0
From: Yellow Brick Road
I believe in UK-based ICAO countries, IR is usually done ME because there's a lot of emphasis put on practising OEIs on approach. I just found out the FAA has a different approach in that many students actually complete SECIR before doing CPL with an ME endorsement added afterwards - after that they go straight on to the airlines (or whatever).
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 6
From: Escapee from Ultima Thule
Some misinformation here. The US situation is not that different to the UK (or anywhere else, for that matter) w.r.t. what IR is necessary. It all depends on what type of aircraft you will be flying.
If you will be flying a single engine aircraft then only a single engine IR is required under the rules however a multi IR will also cover it. If flying a multi then only a multi IR will suffice. A single IR does not cover multi engine aircraft**.
In the US a lot more people hold IRs, expecially at PPL level. It's also a requirement for a flight instructor to hold an IR *and* for a commercial pilot to hold an IR to fly charter/air taxi/public transport flights beyond a certain distance. The required IR has to be appropriate to the aircraft type flown ie single or multi but apart from that there's no rule that specifies a single or multi IR.
Career progression in the US nearly always involves flying other jobs before a major airline job is gained. One of the common precursor jobs is flying freight for cargo companies who often use single engine aircraft eg C210, Bonanza & Caravan. No need for a multi IR in those cases *however* a company may specify a multi IR for selection to allow for progression within the organisation.
There are other significant differences between the job markets but that's the nub of the IR stuff.
**With an exception in some jurisdictions eg Australia: A single IR will cover multi engine types that do not have single engine asymmetric handling qualities eg Cessna's C337. But this is a particular exception to the general rule.
If you will be flying a single engine aircraft then only a single engine IR is required under the rules however a multi IR will also cover it. If flying a multi then only a multi IR will suffice. A single IR does not cover multi engine aircraft**.
In the US a lot more people hold IRs, expecially at PPL level. It's also a requirement for a flight instructor to hold an IR *and* for a commercial pilot to hold an IR to fly charter/air taxi/public transport flights beyond a certain distance. The required IR has to be appropriate to the aircraft type flown ie single or multi but apart from that there's no rule that specifies a single or multi IR.
Career progression in the US nearly always involves flying other jobs before a major airline job is gained. One of the common precursor jobs is flying freight for cargo companies who often use single engine aircraft eg C210, Bonanza & Caravan. No need for a multi IR in those cases *however* a company may specify a multi IR for selection to allow for progression within the organisation.
There are other significant differences between the job markets but that's the nub of the IR stuff.
**With an exception in some jurisdictions eg Australia: A single IR will cover multi engine types that do not have single engine asymmetric handling qualities eg Cessna's C337. But this is a particular exception to the general rule.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 0
From: Yellow Brick Road
Tinstaafl, thanks for your input as I am getting 2nd hand info from the States. As you said, in the US a lot more people hold IRs, especially at PPL level and this is usually SE.
I appreciate that CFIIs must hold an IR but there's nothing to stop someone only holding CFI and not teaching IR, although that is probably unusual.
As I said they progress onto the airlines or whatever because it is obvious in this economic climate that many are unable to do so, judging from the numbers of instructors holding onto flight school instead of moving up.
I appreciate that CFIIs must hold an IR but there's nothing to stop someone only holding CFI and not teaching IR, although that is probably unusual.
As I said they progress onto the airlines or whatever because it is obvious in this economic climate that many are unable to do so, judging from the numbers of instructors holding onto flight school instead of moving up.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Malaysia
expensive and a bitch to renew every year
Dear Sirs,
Am really new and am in need of your guidance and assistance.
Is the MEIR really that expensive compared to the SEIR? Both in terms of obtaining & renewal each year.
Will the SEIR be more hard to perform compared to the MEIR?
Thanks a million for your answers and thanks for posting this thread sushiking.
God bless :-)
Am really new and am in need of your guidance and assistance.
Is the MEIR really that expensive compared to the SEIR? Both in terms of obtaining & renewal each year.
Will the SEIR be more hard to perform compared to the MEIR?
Thanks a million for your answers and thanks for posting this thread sushiking.
God bless :-)
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
From: North West, UK
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 6
From: Escapee from Ultima Thule
ReverseFlight,
Slight misunderstanding there: In the US it is a prerequisite for all grades of aeroplane flight instructor to hold an IR. No ifs or buts. Doesn't matter if the instructor rating does or does not authorise instrument rating training. BTW, lots people hold 'just' a CFI without holding CFI Instrument or Multi Engine Instructor ratings although many move 'up' and add the other two instructor ratings too.
It's a little different in Oz. The CASA prerequisite is for the instructor to have Night VFR privileges no matter which level of instructor rating s/he holds. NVFR privileges can be achieved in two ways: By holding a NVFR rating or by meeting the NVFR experience requirements specified for a Command Instrument Rating. Similarly to the US, many instructors hold 'just' a Grade 3 but also many move 'up' to Grade 2 and/or add multi instructor. Some even add Instrument Rating instruction to their Gr.2. Fewer move to Grade 1 though which automatically gives the equivalent of the US' CFI Instrument rating
As a side note for Oz, a disadvantage to using the 'NVFR under CIR' method is that NVFR privileges lapse when the CIR lapses whereas the NVFR rating is permanently valid.
Slight misunderstanding there: In the US it is a prerequisite for all grades of aeroplane flight instructor to hold an IR. No ifs or buts. Doesn't matter if the instructor rating does or does not authorise instrument rating training. BTW, lots people hold 'just' a CFI without holding CFI Instrument or Multi Engine Instructor ratings although many move 'up' and add the other two instructor ratings too.
It's a little different in Oz. The CASA prerequisite is for the instructor to have Night VFR privileges no matter which level of instructor rating s/he holds. NVFR privileges can be achieved in two ways: By holding a NVFR rating or by meeting the NVFR experience requirements specified for a Command Instrument Rating. Similarly to the US, many instructors hold 'just' a Grade 3 but also many move 'up' to Grade 2 and/or add multi instructor. Some even add Instrument Rating instruction to their Gr.2. Fewer move to Grade 1 though which automatically gives the equivalent of the US' CFI Instrument rating
As a side note for Oz, a disadvantage to using the 'NVFR under CIR' method is that NVFR privileges lapse when the CIR lapses whereas the NVFR rating is permanently valid.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 0
From: Yellow Brick Road
Thanks Tinstaafl, you've obviously researched the rules more than I have and it all makes sense. While there are slight differences how you get there between FAA and Oz, ultimately the end product is the same. Having an IF rating before doing an FI rating seems to be a useful thing.
