Cabair Integrated Foundation degree with CPL
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but if 2 identical candidates performed identically in an interview and were exactly the same in all ways except one had the degree
You say it makes you the jack of all trades and the master of none??? Well would that not mean that you are the jack of SOME trades, and still the master of NONE?
To finish, I have been to 3 interviews with different companies, and all 3 have questioned a fair bit on the degree course.
There are many ways to skin a cat, the degree way is and is becoming ever more a more useless way IN MY OPINION.
ProPwannabe take command of life before you take command of an aircraft mate. Decion making is a vital tool of the trade and you need to make one and stick to it. Assimilate the information you have and just go for it, they'll all lead you to the same point more or less but at different costs and with different stress.
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Yes, I agree it is a weak thing to be used as a deciding factor. I am talking extreme situations but at the end of the day. The degree is a qualification and if candidate A has one and B doesn't, everything else being identical, A would have the minute advantage.
Yes, all three interviews were with airlines.
You said, the doing one of these courses makes you the jack of all trades, but master of none. The courses involve all the ATPL training and a further knowledge past that. That would mean that anyone who has done one of these degree course would have done exactly the same as anyone who hasn't, plus a lot more.
Yes, all three interviews were with airlines.
You said, the doing one of these courses makes you the jack of all trades, but master of none. The courses involve all the ATPL training and a further knowledge past that. That would mean that anyone who has done one of these degree course would have done exactly the same as anyone who hasn't, plus a lot more.
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Yes, all three interviews were with airlines.
the ATPL training and a further knowledge past that
That would mean that anyone who has done one of these degree course would have done exactly the same as anyone who hasn't, plus a lot more.
As always it's horses for courses.
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ProPwannabe I am in a similar position as yourself (however a tad younger at 18). I have researched the options relentlessly over this past year. I took an assessment at OAA and was surprised/pleased to pass first time. The reason in which I am not deciding to pursue the OAA APP route is because I got talking to a trainee on the Integrated route and he told me if he were me, he would choose CTC or FTE. The reasons were mainly of bad weather Oxford gets but he also said the school give preference to some pupils and ‘look after’ them better. Reasons I am not aware of and am in no position to comment on, but that’s what he said.
I recently attended the Bucks’ open day and got talking to the course leader. He really sold the course but described it as a ‘Managed Modular’ rather than an Integrated which is displayed on the Cabair website.
However comments from The Beak are making me reconsider the option of an aviation related degree. (I know a FO and he assured me not to listen to people on pprune because many of them are here to put people of from the profession and if he had of listened to advice he was given over pprune, he wouldn’t be flying for a living).
I’m not saying that The Beaks advice is in anyway malicious as I am aware the guy has experience I can only dream of having one day and he has previousaly gave me valuable advice on a previous thread, but it’s just a thought.
If your intention is to go Integrated, my advice would be to book an assessment for CTC or FTE and decide from there. On the other hand I am hearing good things about Cabair’s USA option. Just don’t make any rash decisions as if this is a career you are set upon and will happily serve for the rest of your time, I don’t believe I’m wrong in saying that it deserves a bit of thought.
P.S. The course leader assured me many of the graduates secured jobs soon after graduation and airlines were impressed with their degrees also.
I recently attended the Bucks’ open day and got talking to the course leader. He really sold the course but described it as a ‘Managed Modular’ rather than an Integrated which is displayed on the Cabair website.
However comments from The Beak are making me reconsider the option of an aviation related degree. (I know a FO and he assured me not to listen to people on pprune because many of them are here to put people of from the profession and if he had of listened to advice he was given over pprune, he wouldn’t be flying for a living).
I’m not saying that The Beaks advice is in anyway malicious as I am aware the guy has experience I can only dream of having one day and he has previousaly gave me valuable advice on a previous thread, but it’s just a thought.
If your intention is to go Integrated, my advice would be to book an assessment for CTC or FTE and decide from there. On the other hand I am hearing good things about Cabair’s USA option. Just don’t make any rash decisions as if this is a career you are set upon and will happily serve for the rest of your time, I don’t believe I’m wrong in saying that it deserves a bit of thought.
P.S. The course leader assured me many of the graduates secured jobs soon after graduation and airlines were impressed with their degrees also.
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I am not saying don't be a pilot, if it is what you want to do, I for one know that one will throw away every other opportunity to do it. If you want to be a pilot then you almost MUST do it or else live a life of regret unless you have a very strong mind. But it's the way you do it that is important. Your first way must be to try and get selected, be it military or sponsorship. Your second, unless you have very rich and generous parents, should be the modualr route - earn and learn - but plan it and work to it. The route I descrbed previously on this thread would, I believe, stand you in good sted. I just really don't agree with roping parents in on the debt. There ARE ways around it. It is your parents and your choice though and it is their money/ property/ investments to do what they like with.
As for the degrees, I know guys with Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Engineering, Accountancy and Medicine degrees (all who trained to be pilots) and none have jobs as a pilot and none have jobs that are even remotely well paid or within the respective fields. Well done Gordon Brown
. If I was going to get a degree it would be in one of the above as I personally still find them impressive to have if from a proper uni. An aviation degree is not going to detract from your C.V. or standing but it will from your time and money. It is your life to fit whatever you want in to, and, if an aviation degree is one of those things then that's the right reason to go for it. If you want to do it because you want to be a pilot then forget it and use your time and money more effectively.
It really isn't and good on you for not thinking so - being able to constructively take on board things that aren't what you want to hear is a strong quality, something alot of people in this part of PPRUNE do not have. It is given with the best of intentions because I too was beside myself trying to decide how to go about training.
As for the degrees, I know guys with Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Engineering, Accountancy and Medicine degrees (all who trained to be pilots) and none have jobs as a pilot and none have jobs that are even remotely well paid or within the respective fields. Well done Gordon Brown
. If I was going to get a degree it would be in one of the above as I personally still find them impressive to have if from a proper uni. An aviation degree is not going to detract from your C.V. or standing but it will from your time and money. It is your life to fit whatever you want in to, and, if an aviation degree is one of those things then that's the right reason to go for it. If you want to do it because you want to be a pilot then forget it and use your time and money more effectively.
I’m not saying that The Beaks advice is in anyway malicious
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sorry taken a week to reply, been on my hols.
All three were for cadet pilot jobs,
I agree that you are just expressing your opinion on this, not tryin to be malicious. In my opinion, I think the course is great, as do many others, but I know its not for everybody and some people will obviously have differing opinions. What a boring world if we all conformed to the same opinions and beliefs.
Best advice I could give is, go check out the course, its open days etc, and decide if the course is for you.
C89
All three were for cadet pilot jobs,
I agree that you are just expressing your opinion on this, not tryin to be malicious. In my opinion, I think the course is great, as do many others, but I know its not for everybody and some people will obviously have differing opinions. What a boring world if we all conformed to the same opinions and beliefs.
Best advice I could give is, go check out the course, its open days etc, and decide if the course is for you.
C89
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hi
ive just finished my degree at Bucks on the Air transport course.
ive just turned 21 (42minutes ago actually) have the degree 200 hours my PPL, CPL, Atpl theory and am starting my instrument rating in a couple of weeks.
The degree at bucks is ok. it gives you alot of background knowledge on the aviation industry from alot of different aspects. One positive for you going to bucks this year is they are currently building brand new halls accomodation and high wycombe campus. It luks like its going to be good! basically they are making a huge effort!
I cant tell you if the degree is worth doing with the pilot licenses as i havent been able to apply for a job. all i think is it cant hurt to have the degree as an extra!
if you want any more info email me
James
ive just finished my degree at Bucks on the Air transport course.
ive just turned 21 (42minutes ago actually) have the degree 200 hours my PPL, CPL, Atpl theory and am starting my instrument rating in a couple of weeks.
The degree at bucks is ok. it gives you alot of background knowledge on the aviation industry from alot of different aspects. One positive for you going to bucks this year is they are currently building brand new halls accomodation and high wycombe campus. It luks like its going to be good! basically they are making a huge effort!
I cant tell you if the degree is worth doing with the pilot licenses as i havent been able to apply for a job. all i think is it cant hurt to have the degree as an extra!
if you want any more info email me
James
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Hi,
I am 18 years old just finished my A2's, im taking a gap year and want to become a pilot.
The problem is my parents cannot afford the courses at new bucks, kingston or london city unis for a degree in air transport operations + ATPL. I am planning to obtain my PPL in my gap year.
Is it worth it to get a degree in Air transport operations and management 3 year course without a an ATPL and hopefully to build up the money in the 3 years so that i can apply to organisations such as CTC FTE etc.
Im good with computer programming should i instead get a degree in computer science from a good uni which is about 4 years then just work for an ATPL.
So in a way i can have a back up career if i still can't afford for an ATPL lisence.
Does anyone know organisations that provide ATPL's the most cheapest, i looked at the cabair website for Bournmouth and it said which i couldnt believe £2995 for an ATPL course. Is that just for ground school training. What area of gaining an ATPL is most expensive is it the practical i.e. flying side of it later on.
Also does it matter if build up the hours + training in a different country and then do the ATPL exams back here in the UK. Since training and fllying hours are a lot cheaper abroad places such as the USA, middle east.
Do u beleive it will be more easy to get full sponsorship with airline academy's after i have a degree in computer science?
thanks for any advice,
eclipse91.
I am 18 years old just finished my A2's, im taking a gap year and want to become a pilot.
The problem is my parents cannot afford the courses at new bucks, kingston or london city unis for a degree in air transport operations + ATPL. I am planning to obtain my PPL in my gap year.
Is it worth it to get a degree in Air transport operations and management 3 year course without a an ATPL and hopefully to build up the money in the 3 years so that i can apply to organisations such as CTC FTE etc.
Im good with computer programming should i instead get a degree in computer science from a good uni which is about 4 years then just work for an ATPL.
So in a way i can have a back up career if i still can't afford for an ATPL lisence.
Does anyone know organisations that provide ATPL's the most cheapest, i looked at the cabair website for Bournmouth and it said which i couldnt believe £2995 for an ATPL course. Is that just for ground school training. What area of gaining an ATPL is most expensive is it the practical i.e. flying side of it later on.
Also does it matter if build up the hours + training in a different country and then do the ATPL exams back here in the UK. Since training and fllying hours are a lot cheaper abroad places such as the USA, middle east.
Do u beleive it will be more easy to get full sponsorship with airline academy's after i have a degree in computer science?
thanks for any advice,
eclipse91.
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Hi eclipse91,
I'll start with my opinions on your comments and ideas.
Nor should your parents have to afford it, sorry buddy, welcome to the real world.
Not a bad one but not a great one.
In my opinion no, that would be a waste of your time, if you want a degree get A DEGREE, if you want to be a pilot TRAIN TO BE A PILOT. I've said a thousand times.
The course cost you quoted for the ATPLs is the ground study. You'll need a PPL and 100 hours PIC I think to start it as a minimum. Flying training i.e. flying the aeroplane is the expensive bit and plan to go 20% over your minimum cost.
My advice? Go and work in industry for 3-5 years, save, save, save and then if you still want to do it - GO FOR IT.
Good luck.
I'll start with my opinions on your comments and ideas.
The problem is my parents cannot afford the courses at new bucks, kingston or london city unis for a degree in air transport operations + ATPL.
I am planning to obtain my PPL in my gap year.
Is it worth it to get a degree in Air transport operations and management 3 year course without a an ATPL and hopefully to build up the money in the 3 years so that i can apply to organisations such as CTC FTE etc.
The course cost you quoted for the ATPLs is the ground study. You'll need a PPL and 100 hours PIC I think to start it as a minimum. Flying training i.e. flying the aeroplane is the expensive bit and plan to go 20% over your minimum cost.
My advice? Go and work in industry for 3-5 years, save, save, save and then if you still want to do it - GO FOR IT.
Good luck.
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TheBeak thankds for your advice,
your a pilot right?
do airlines care what degree u have in what subject, also is it possible to gain an ATPL in another country will it be valid in the UK?, i mean are there any restrictions / conversions that have to be made or once u have an ATPL liscence or once u have it, it means u can use it anywhere?
Im thinking of getting ATPL training abroad + building up the hours after i get a degree and doing the ATPL exams in the UK because its cheaper
your a pilot right?
do airlines care what degree u have in what subject, also is it possible to gain an ATPL in another country will it be valid in the UK?, i mean are there any restrictions / conversions that have to be made or once u have an ATPL liscence or once u have it, it means u can use it anywhere?
Im thinking of getting ATPL training abroad + building up the hours after i get a degree and doing the ATPL exams in the UK because its cheaper
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For the ATPL ground study you only need a PPL to start it, and your most expensive part of the training is the Instrument Rating. If it is done in another country, not JAA, you will need to do a conversion on this. All other training can be done in a none JAA state, such as the USA, as they offer JAA approved courses. Therefore, a conversion wouldn't be needed for a PPL/CPL/ME done abroad, as long as it followed the JAA course of training.
Personally, in my opinion, you are best to do as much of your training in the UK as possible, even if it costs a bit more. The difference in cost is getting smaller now with the poorer exchange rate, and once you have factored in flights, visas etc, you don't save a great deal. The only bit of flying that I would recommend doing some of abroad is the hours building as the weather is generally better, so you will get more hours done sooner.
I agree with the Beak on getting experience in the Industry, saving and making sure it is what you want to do. It will not come cheap, and if you are spending that amount of money on training, I would reccommend saving a little bit more and going with the best training you can get for your money, not the cheapest.
Also, you mention doing your ATPL training abroad, then building hours after the degree. To start your CPL, you need 150 hours, and 200 hours including 100PIC for it to be issued. Therefore, your hour building would need to be done before your ATPL training.
What subject you have a degree in or if you have one will not play any significant part in your selection for a job. After all, you are not required to have a degree to apply and most applicants won't have one. The main advantage of having a degree, especially for young applicants, is the skills that you will gain from it.
Any more questions just ask, and best of luck with whatever you decide
C89
Personally, in my opinion, you are best to do as much of your training in the UK as possible, even if it costs a bit more. The difference in cost is getting smaller now with the poorer exchange rate, and once you have factored in flights, visas etc, you don't save a great deal. The only bit of flying that I would recommend doing some of abroad is the hours building as the weather is generally better, so you will get more hours done sooner.
I agree with the Beak on getting experience in the Industry, saving and making sure it is what you want to do. It will not come cheap, and if you are spending that amount of money on training, I would reccommend saving a little bit more and going with the best training you can get for your money, not the cheapest.
Also, you mention doing your ATPL training abroad, then building hours after the degree. To start your CPL, you need 150 hours, and 200 hours including 100PIC for it to be issued. Therefore, your hour building would need to be done before your ATPL training.
What subject you have a degree in or if you have one will not play any significant part in your selection for a job. After all, you are not required to have a degree to apply and most applicants won't have one. The main advantage of having a degree, especially for young applicants, is the skills that you will gain from it.
Any more questions just ask, and best of luck with whatever you decide
C89
