Flyer Show Feedback
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Flyer Show Feedback
Ok... let’s hear the bull
from the flyer show. Particular what schools recommended you to start your training now and what reasoning did they give for this?
Also any feedback worth mentioning regarding the seminars or in general? Any positive news?
What was the general mood (regarding jobs, the current economic climate etc) like amongst fellow wannabes versus what the F.O are saying?
Any honest feedback appreciated
from the flyer show. Particular what schools recommended you to start your training now and what reasoning did they give for this?Also any feedback worth mentioning regarding the seminars or in general? Any positive news?
What was the general mood (regarding jobs, the current economic climate etc) like amongst fellow wannabes versus what the F.O are saying?
Any honest feedback appreciated
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Personally the only useful thing I found was talking to a bloke from Nat West Private Banking. The rest was painful and I really did feel that I could have set up my own stand and answered questions because the majority of people there were clueless about the whole thing. I wanted to ask FTO's some very specific questions and I was waiting for the 4 people in front of me to ask if they can get sponsorship 
Overall good to have representatives from a range of FTO's and also GAPAN, Flybe and some universities etc. Didnt bother with the seminars at all and everything seemed pushed back by an hour from the start.
It seemed all the FTO's supplied handfuls of 18 year old integrated students to walk around with that "yes, both my parents are earning within the highest tax band" persona. Disapointed with the young female representatives or should I say, complete lack of.
Overall good to have representatives from a range of FTO's and also GAPAN, Flybe and some universities etc. Didnt bother with the seminars at all and everything seemed pushed back by an hour from the start.
It seemed all the FTO's supplied handfuls of 18 year old integrated students to walk around with that "yes, both my parents are earning within the highest tax band" persona. Disapointed with the young female representatives or should I say, complete lack of.
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Pilotpieces - The Natwest stand was the one stand I left without visiting. Did I miss any opportunities with them regarding finance?
My feedback: Kinda what I thought it would be. Gives you a brief look at the type of set up people involved. I was using it as a filter to try and decide which one's I would visit. Funny though - I was recommended a certain organisation by a friend of mine who flies for Jet2 and trained with these. Talk about underwhelmed, the owner of said company pretty much blanked me as I was enquiring - I was half way to commiting to them but walked away from their stand drawing a line through their name.
Definately worth the visit though, put one company in the frame who weren't before and as said previously - ruled a couple out.
My feedback: Kinda what I thought it would be. Gives you a brief look at the type of set up people involved. I was using it as a filter to try and decide which one's I would visit. Funny though - I was recommended a certain organisation by a friend of mine who flies for Jet2 and trained with these. Talk about underwhelmed, the owner of said company pretty much blanked me as I was enquiring - I was half way to commiting to them but walked away from their stand drawing a line through their name.
Definately worth the visit though, put one company in the frame who weren't before and as said previously - ruled a couple out.
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Nothing groundbreaking...
This was the third Flyer exhibition i've visited in as many years. Firstly, I can't believe they still haven't learned their lesson about the numbers of people they get through the doors - every year the facilities, especially seminar and 'briefing' rooms have been pitifully inadequate for the number of people trying to get in. Yesterday some people were grabbing seats in there a whole two hours before the first 20-minute talk!! . And every year they give the same old apologies claiming they didn't expect so many people; I'm not quite sure why at every show they keep expecting so few compared to the previous one! Get a grip please!!!
Anyway, rant aside, it was again worth the visit, though I think after three shows there's not much more I could gain from a fourth. Sure, there weren't any absolute answers about whether its right to start training now, but I wasn't expecting any - mainly because there is nobody in the world who could possibly say for sure! The overall feeling from the schools and presentations was that the economy is predicted to start recovering in around 18-24 months, and with it pilot recruitment drives. Its nothing more than a guess, but its the best anyone can offer at this time.
So there's no getting away from the fact its a gamble. A £70,000+ gamble (if you go integrated). But so it has always been; the students who are graduating now, at the worst possible time, all went into training during the boom times when the 'better' FTOs struggled to train enough pilots to meet demand. Who knows, people who start in the next few months could be the first to hit the anticipated wave of airline recruitment. Or maybe not. I don't think the exhibition was the place to go for anyone looking for answers to this question. In my view it comes down to personal opinion, and whether the individual feels the time is right for them to start training. And if they do then it would be foolish to not expect the worst case scenario and have some form of contingency plan in case they don't find that elusive job within a few months of graduating.
As for the NatWest stand, that was for me also one of the most interesting I visited. They say they look at each person individually, tailor a loan to suit that person, their family, circumstances etc, and there also seemed to be flexibility over the commencement of repayments giving you a bit of breathing space to find a job after coming out of an FTO. I can't speak for all of the FTOs there but a lot seemed to use some Spanish bank (the name was an acronym that escapes me now) which it turnes out demands repayments only 2 months after course completion! However I don't think any FTO would care where the money came from, and I think I would certainly choose a NatWest or any other loan that was tailored to me rather than tailored to a specific FTO course.
They were among the main things I got out of the day anyway, please put me right on anything I've missed or got the wrong idea about. I appreciate that most of the people you speak to at these shows are effectively salesmen, so obviously you have to keep that in mind and not get blinded by the sales talk. But overall I found that most of the people I spoke to, when probed hard enough so to speak, were very open and honest about the situation.
Did anyone see any of the airline seminars? I unfortunately missed out on tickets for them due to a combination of woeful handling by Flyer and the fact I had to travel down from the Manchester area by train. What did they have to say?
Mike.
. And every year they give the same old apologies claiming they didn't expect so many people; I'm not quite sure why at every show they keep expecting so few compared to the previous one! Get a grip please!!!Anyway, rant aside, it was again worth the visit, though I think after three shows there's not much more I could gain from a fourth. Sure, there weren't any absolute answers about whether its right to start training now, but I wasn't expecting any - mainly because there is nobody in the world who could possibly say for sure! The overall feeling from the schools and presentations was that the economy is predicted to start recovering in around 18-24 months, and with it pilot recruitment drives. Its nothing more than a guess, but its the best anyone can offer at this time.
So there's no getting away from the fact its a gamble. A £70,000+ gamble (if you go integrated). But so it has always been; the students who are graduating now, at the worst possible time, all went into training during the boom times when the 'better' FTOs struggled to train enough pilots to meet demand. Who knows, people who start in the next few months could be the first to hit the anticipated wave of airline recruitment. Or maybe not. I don't think the exhibition was the place to go for anyone looking for answers to this question. In my view it comes down to personal opinion, and whether the individual feels the time is right for them to start training. And if they do then it would be foolish to not expect the worst case scenario and have some form of contingency plan in case they don't find that elusive job within a few months of graduating.
As for the NatWest stand, that was for me also one of the most interesting I visited. They say they look at each person individually, tailor a loan to suit that person, their family, circumstances etc, and there also seemed to be flexibility over the commencement of repayments giving you a bit of breathing space to find a job after coming out of an FTO. I can't speak for all of the FTOs there but a lot seemed to use some Spanish bank (the name was an acronym that escapes me now) which it turnes out demands repayments only 2 months after course completion! However I don't think any FTO would care where the money came from, and I think I would certainly choose a NatWest or any other loan that was tailored to me rather than tailored to a specific FTO course.
They were among the main things I got out of the day anyway, please put me right on anything I've missed or got the wrong idea about. I appreciate that most of the people you speak to at these shows are effectively salesmen, so obviously you have to keep that in mind and not get blinded by the sales talk. But overall I found that most of the people I spoke to, when probed hard enough so to speak, were very open and honest about the situation.
Did anyone see any of the airline seminars? I unfortunately missed out on tickets for them due to a combination of woeful handling by Flyer and the fact I had to travel down from the Manchester area by train. What did they have to say?
Mike.
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Event was great, very useful, about 3rd or 4th time I've been along over the years. Made new contacts, found out some critial information for me and my future and the best way forward, so all in all, top marks.
I also got the impression lots were new to aviation i.e. only had a PPL/Gliding licence and were seeking info, but good for everyone.
I nearly didn't go, but I'm glad I did!!!!! I walked away with more useful information now than anytime previously.
Btw, the Flybe Seminar was useful! If only we all had a crystal ball to read the future eh, but be sensible and not stupid with your decisions and you'll be amazed what can happen over time.
I also got the impression lots were new to aviation i.e. only had a PPL/Gliding licence and were seeking info, but good for everyone.
I nearly didn't go, but I'm glad I did!!!!! I walked away with more useful information now than anytime previously.
Btw, the Flybe Seminar was useful! If only we all had a crystal ball to read the future eh, but be sensible and not stupid with your decisions and you'll be amazed what can happen over time.
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Yeah I'm glad I visited Flyer. Overall it was a pretty good experience. That place was packed!! Arrived home today, as I took the day off yesterday for a walk around town. Some beautiful weather in London yesterday!
Didn't go to NatWest though. Private banks are all alike: they always say they would tailor u this and that, but in the end it's pretty much the same crap.
I did talk to quite some schools. I was interested in the ones from Aus and Greece. Kinda like the Greek school in Rhodes though. It sure looks great, but don't they all?? Anyways I'm gonna do some serious research on that one. Really surprised to see Orlando Flight Training there though.
I wasn't too keen on the seminars also. I was amazed with all the ppl standing in line for the BA one!
It's homework time for me now, as I want to answer a lot of unanswered questions here.
Cheers!
Didn't go to NatWest though. Private banks are all alike: they always say they would tailor u this and that, but in the end it's pretty much the same crap.
I did talk to quite some schools. I was interested in the ones from Aus and Greece. Kinda like the Greek school in Rhodes though. It sure looks great, but don't they all?? Anyways I'm gonna do some serious research on that one. Really surprised to see Orlando Flight Training there though.
I wasn't too keen on the seminars also. I was amazed with all the ppl standing in line for the BA one!
It's homework time for me now, as I want to answer a lot of unanswered questions here.
Cheers!
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I was amazed with all the ppl standing in line for the BA one!
I bet they all went home smiling when they were told that 6K has gone down the toilet as BA don't take 250hr mods!
I'm surprised BA bother to tell the truth with these shows. Then again I suppose the national legacy carrier should be there
I bet they all went home smiling when they were told that 6K has gone down the toilet as BA don't take 250hr mods!
I'm surprised BA bother to tell the truth with these shows. Then again I suppose the national legacy carrier should be there
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Let's just be clear regarding the banks, they will tailor anything for you - as long as you have property to put up as security.
No property, no loan - that is something that is GURANTEED!
No property, no loan - that is something that is GURANTEED!
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Thats right tigermagicjohn, Natwest said they will only lend up to 60% of the value of the property put up for security and I imagine others are pretty similar.
Incidentally, and this may be a topic for a different discussion, but does anyone have any idea whether unsecured loans for training will reappear after the crunch or are they likely to remain a thing of the past??
Incidentally, and this may be a topic for a different discussion, but does anyone have any idea whether unsecured loans for training will reappear after the crunch or are they likely to remain a thing of the past??
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You got it Tiger!
Mikey, 60% is reasonable at this point in time as the banks are trying not to engage in too many risk. Over here in Portugal is easy to reach 75/80% though. Good thing for me that I work as a financial consultant so I'm used to all this stuff and going to use it to my advantage.
Natwest is just taking an oportunity to reach more clients there as they're probably not the best choice for those kinds of loans and mortages.
Can't really answer that one regarding unsecured loans, but it's looking pretty bleak still. Really don't see those banking institutions risking anything anytime soon.
Mikey, 60% is reasonable at this point in time as the banks are trying not to engage in too many risk. Over here in Portugal is easy to reach 75/80% though. Good thing for me that I work as a financial consultant so I'm used to all this stuff and going to use it to my advantage.
Natwest is just taking an oportunity to reach more clients there as they're probably not the best choice for those kinds of loans and mortages.
Can't really answer that one regarding unsecured loans, but it's looking pretty bleak still. Really don't see those banking institutions risking anything anytime soon.
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If it was Nat West’s Private Banking arm that was there, they were NOT there to lend you money!!
They would be there because Flyer’s events sales people convinced Nat West’s marketing bods that they would be meeting future high net worth customers (£100k pa pilots) in large numbers.
Unless you earn £80k plus or have liquid assets of 1/4m, you are of NO interest to them.
Those manning the stand will have gone home bemused given that they will have met only potentially debt ridden wannabes. with little chance of being high net worth customers in the medium term!
I’ll bet that they were simply honoring a long standing commitment to space at the show as, under the new RBS regime (they/we own Nat West), this sort of long term marketing activity will have been slashed!
It’s a very long time since I went to one of these shows, but I remember meeting a lot of people on stands who came across as being, there because they were told to be, or only because their competitors were there, and ,…would rather be at home!
These shows make a FORTUNE for the publishers of Flyer. Indeed, for many publishers, it’s the events and awards ceremonies that make them the money these days, not the magazines!
Shows are not put on for the good of Flyers readers, a LOT of money is in it for exhibitors and organizers….your money!
That said they are worth a visit (with a very open and perhaps cynical mind!!), as, in this business, you need to gain as much knowledge as you can, and to make as many contacts as possible.
They would be there because Flyer’s events sales people convinced Nat West’s marketing bods that they would be meeting future high net worth customers (£100k pa pilots) in large numbers.
Unless you earn £80k plus or have liquid assets of 1/4m, you are of NO interest to them.
Those manning the stand will have gone home bemused given that they will have met only potentially debt ridden wannabes. with little chance of being high net worth customers in the medium term!
I’ll bet that they were simply honoring a long standing commitment to space at the show as, under the new RBS regime (they/we own Nat West), this sort of long term marketing activity will have been slashed!
It’s a very long time since I went to one of these shows, but I remember meeting a lot of people on stands who came across as being, there because they were told to be, or only because their competitors were there, and ,…would rather be at home!
These shows make a FORTUNE for the publishers of Flyer. Indeed, for many publishers, it’s the events and awards ceremonies that make them the money these days, not the magazines!
Shows are not put on for the good of Flyers readers, a LOT of money is in it for exhibitors and organizers….your money!
That said they are worth a visit (with a very open and perhaps cynical mind!!), as, in this business, you need to gain as much knowledge as you can, and to make as many contacts as possible.
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On the finance side - I would expect the loan value to be no more than 60% of the EQUITY in the secured property. Sounds like a slight technicality, but in actual fact a huge difference.
If you try and use a property which has just been purchased with a 100% mortgage (unlikely I know) they will laugh you out of the branch. It is your equity they are after. Property value is almost incidental.
Also, as mentioned earlier, Nat West are by no means a market leader. Anyone will offer you a secured loan with enough security even today. A 'taylored loan' is management speak for 'it depends how rich your mum and dad are'.
These open days are good - but you do need to go armed with some industrial strength gloss remover to get the most out of them.
If you try and use a property which has just been purchased with a 100% mortgage (unlikely I know) they will laugh you out of the branch. It is your equity they are after. Property value is almost incidental.
Also, as mentioned earlier, Nat West are by no means a market leader. Anyone will offer you a secured loan with enough security even today. A 'taylored loan' is management speak for 'it depends how rich your mum and dad are'.
These open days are good - but you do need to go armed with some industrial strength gloss remover to get the most out of them.
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Yes the point regarding why Nat West Private Banking was there is correct. They are after your business later in the long run, when you have that decent paid job. I can't help but agree that perhaps they were a little misguided as to who they are dealing with and how long it will actually be for any of these people to be earning big money.
Never the less, they were still very helpful in explaining what is currently on offer and with what terms and rates. (although I was enquiring about a figure considerably less than most).
Never the less, they were still very helpful in explaining what is currently on offer and with what terms and rates. (although I was enquiring about a figure considerably less than most).
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PP,
I don't think they were misguided. Remember, they are not just throwing money at you, it will all be secured. So the worst case for the banks is that they do not get your business in the long run because you don't earn "the big money" but they still have got your mum and dad's house or something like that.
Best case scenario is you pay them back with interest, and earn the big money and stay with them.
Remember, Banks are like the casino owner. There is ONLY 1 WINNER
I don't think they were misguided. Remember, they are not just throwing money at you, it will all be secured. So the worst case for the banks is that they do not get your business in the long run because you don't earn "the big money" but they still have got your mum and dad's house or something like that.
Best case scenario is you pay them back with interest, and earn the big money and stay with them.
Remember, Banks are like the casino owner. There is ONLY 1 WINNER
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I read the criteria for the Natwest Private banking, they seem to want to have a massive income, I guess to cover the likes of flight training, BUT luckerly for me, I've done quite a bit of the training now, so I don't need a massive loan.
For those looking to do flight training full time at an Integrated college, then this massive security will apply and it's those who they are interested in, they want your ££££££££££££!!!
For those looking to do flight training full time at an Integrated college, then this massive security will apply and it's those who they are interested in, they want your ££££££££££££!!!
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I could not go much though I wanted too
did anyone video the presentations ???
Given the over run nature that it seems to have got maybe they could think about doing one later in the year in Manchester sure the FTO's would be happy to reel in more potential customers and it for sure sounds like Flyer has make a good packet out of it.
did anyone video the presentations ???
Given the over run nature that it seems to have got maybe they could think about doing one later in the year in Manchester sure the FTO's would be happy to reel in more potential customers and it for sure sounds like Flyer has make a good packet out of it.
Given the over run nature that it seems to have got maybe they could think about doing one later in the year in Manchester sure the FTO's would be happy to reel in more potential customers and it for sure sounds like Flyer has make a good packet out of it.