Hours building in Florida..visa

[irishpilot1990]

Ok firstly I know there is treads about this, but things have changed recently..(visa weiver)

I just want to hours build...not train...I am been told by most this doesn't require a visa?!?! I am going for 2 weeks!

I checked out the embassy website and it appears ESTA form is only thing I have to fill out, correct?

Also on entry I will be asked purpose of visit etc, when I say a flying holiday will they know I don’t need visa etc, or will alarms start ringing and I will get dragged into some room for ages like when training on an m1 visa.

One pilot recommended I say nothing about flying! But if they ask me about my business or something this could get tricky…so I want to stay honest!

[A and C]

other options

Why the expensive option that will not equipe you for flying in europe?

Why Florida one of the most expensive places in the USA?

It would seem to me that if it is hoursbuilding that you want then you would be better off in Europe or in one of the less popular places in the USA, try Detroit. Michigan is a great place to fly in the summer and the prices are not inflated by the tourist trade.

Or look at this guys website and get a veiw on another way of doing things.

index

What ever you do don't follow the crowd to Florida without taking a look at the other options............. unless what you want is a holiday with a bit of flying attached.

[davey147]

Hi IrishPilot

Florida is a great place to do your hour building im sure ull enjoy it.

Dont worry about the US immigration, unless uve done something wrong in the past, they wont deny you access.

They will chat to you, and ask you why you are going to xxxxx (they already know where you are staying, its on the computer) just tell them you have a private pilots license and you are there on a flying holiday.

Ive met loads of people who get worried about going through immigration. Really there is nothing to worry about, ull be through in a couple of mins!

One bit of advise is, DO NOT LIE, if you are there for hour building, then tell them.

Enjoy your time there.

[tigermagicjohn]

Having considerd hour building in the USA, I have done all the FAA and CAA stuff, however it turns out I need a course there to be allowed to fly there with my UK PPL JAR license, flight review before or after picking up the “restricted” license, and this I have been quoted will cost me around $1.900.

With todays exchange rate that's around £1.400 - add travel to Florid around £350 - and hotel prices/food of around £50 a day - your average hour price is not really that great anymore. For 1 month of hour building that will cost you around £3250. So for the package of hours, good idea to add this to the average price.
Yes of course the flight review is a 1 off outlay - however most likely you will want to hour build for no more than 1 to 3 months. Presented with these facts, it's not that big difference, or?

You can hour build on visa waiver, don't need visa for this.

[Paris Dakar]

irishpilot1990,

You don't need a visa for hour-bulding.

Immigration will ask you the purpose of your visit (business/vacation) they don't want/need chapter and verse but they will want to know where you're stopping whilst you're there - the hotel/motel you are spending your first night will suffice if you're travelling around.

I always carry my headset, logbook and licences in my hand luggage and never once has this been queried or questioned when either arriving or departing the US.

Shop around for deals, many organisations don't bother responding to e-mails (in my experience of the last few months, anyway) so be prepared to pick up the phone and see what the best rate you can get is. I've flown in Florida & California and can't say that one is more expensive than t'other - can't comment on Michigan I'm afraid.

Enjoy the flying

[selfin]

The Visa Waiver Program for certain nationals (Irish included) is acceptable, as stated, for persons wishing to enter the US for hour building. Under certain circumstances a B-class visa is acceptable.

The VWP is also acceptable for persons wishing to undertake FAA night rating training or JAR-FCL night qualification training.

Remember to give yourself about 3 to 4 weeks for the FAA to supply a US-airman certificated based upon your IAA-issued JAR flight crew licence.

FAA Part 91 rules available here. FAA's School Locator database [link] gives you an abundance of options. AirNav maintains an up-to-date fuel price database [link].

Best of luck.

[tigermagicjohn]

Does anybody have any more information regarding the flight review required?

Honestly do not see there to be to much saving flying in the US just now, I have found eg. in Norway I can rent C-172 or PA28 for £90 - £105 wet - UK a little more - (I do not fly the C-152)

I might be wrong - but not really seen prices in the USA that are that great anymore - specially because the UK Pound now is pretty worthless around the world!
Not sure if flying in other "areas" like Detroit is going to be cheaper, because you will be more dependant on the weather, or lack of good weather.
For the cost of sorting out the flight review and travel/expenses to the US, I could get around 26 - 30 hours in the UK in a PA28.

As an example I looked at sunstateaviation website, and they offer 50 hours incl. accom. for $8179 - (Does not include the flight review for JAR PPL, which I have been quoted approx. $1900 by another flight school)

This price is $8179 is in a C-172, in UK pounds this will be approx. £5842 + £1400 flight review + travel £350 = £7592 (not including food and drinks for a month), for that price you could get around 61 hours in the UK.

Naples air, offer the C-172 at $125 and the PA 28 at $105, however does not confirm if this is wet or dry hour price, still useing the cheapest option, the PA 28 it works out $5250 for 50 hours + flight review and travel/living expenses (cheap hotel probably around ££600). This works out around £6100, and is marginally cheaper then the UK options available which I have found, if the price is wet rental. Also I am not sure if the conditions they require are feasable, all 50 hours within 14 days.

Difference will be around 1.2 hours, which you will probably spend on extra burgers on chips anyway when you are there!

So unless you are buying around 150 -200 hours, I can't really see where the great savings are going to be!

However with more and more student pilots seeing and understanding this, I can see US flight schools struggling now in these next couple of years and going to the wall, because striceter Visa requirements (death of J-1 visa), extremly poor exchange rate for UK students, and a more or less useless FAA license for anyone who wants to fly in europe, with conversions etc. - there is no more great savings, mainly because of the UK Pound exchange rate and less possibilites to instruct in the US in the future!

[irishpilot1990]

"Naples air, offer the C-172 at $125 and the PA 28 at $105, however does not confirm if this is wet or dry hour price, still using the cheapest option, the PA 28 it works out $5250 for 50 hours + flight review and travel/living expenses (cheap hotel probably around ££600). This works out around £6100, and is marginally cheaper then the UK options available which I have found, if the price is wet rental. Also I am not sure if the conditions they require are feasible, all 50 hours within 14 days.

Difference will be around 1.2 hours, which you will probably spend on extra burgers on chips anyway when you are there!"

Naples is wet by the way. Exactly why I am going...same price, fraction of the time. A and C constantly makes posts against people going abroad. same price/fraction of the time...cant argue against that.
And I have flown there before so yes I know Thunderstorms daily, its still better then looking outside a European window and seeing drizzle from morning till evening.or cloud metars with bkn 900 feet.

If any one who disagrees with America can they PM me if they can rent me an aircraft in the Mediterranean for 100 dollars an hour please PM me

also i stand to be corrected. no biannual review is needed. Just get your license validated,get letter of authencitity,meet FSDO official, rental school checks you out. Off you go.. that’s for an IAA PPL anyways.

[tigermagicjohn]

Yes agree with the weather - but but but!

I would not prepay to much to any US flight school at the moment, some of the "BIG" ones are going to go bust/ bang / hit the wall very soon.

An example here:

http://www.naiasc.com/

North American Institute of Aviation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know this was school which many Norwegians used to use, and guess what? International students have not been refunded!

Who will be next?

[irishpilot1990]

and back to topic...

Il lose a few minutes in airport explaining my visit..but it will be better in the long run.dont want hassle.

so just fill out by ESTA form and off i go?

[mcgoo]

tigermajicjohn, if you have ben quoted $1900 for a flight review you are getting ripped off, it only consists of 1 hour ground school and a 1 hour flight, you should have change from $200.

[GBB]

Hey,
Prices for Christiansen Aviation in Tulsa.


Hourly Rates for Aircraft
C152------------------$70
C172P/Warrior ----$88
C172R---------------$98
C172S/SP---------$110
C172S (G1000)--$124
C172RG-----------$115
Duchess-----------$170
10 Hour Block Rates:
Cessna 152------------$62 = $620
Cessna 172/Warrior $82 = $820
Cessna 172R----------$93 = $930
Cessna 172RG-----$100 = $1000
$1000 Block Rates:
Cessna 152--------------$59
Cessna 172/Warrior---$78
Plane Rental Rates DO NOT include Tax/Instructor Fees. (they are wet tho)

Yeah i know its not Florida and theres not much to do around, but cost of living is not as high as FL.

[tigermagicjohn]

$200 ???

Please can someone confirm more details of this, because this is what I recieved in email from EAA-fly.com.

And to be honest, that put me off the whole hour building project in the US.


"
Cost of the flight review is difficult to predict.
It ultimately depends on how many hrs ground and flight instruction you require.
Preparation will obviously reduce the cost.
If, just for the sake of the discussion, we assume:

• 6 hrs ground ( 2 hrs G1000, 4 hrs Flight review) $420
• 6 hrs flight ( DA 40 FP/CS) $1,476
• For a total of $1,896"

[BelArgUSA]

Florida...?
My opinion, I think you Brits have only one thing in your head - Orlando...
Probably the most expensive area in Florida, Disneyworld, Universal Studios.
By far, MIA, FLL and W Palm Beach are much less expensive. Food/hotel.
Same situation in Tampa/St.Pete/Ft.Meyers... Much better than Orlando.
xxx
There are seasonal differences too. The "Snowbirds" in winter.
December to Easter, Canadians invade cheap motels/rentals.
Outside that season (summer) - prices go sometimes down to one/half.
Orlando remains high through the year, due to amusement parks...
Many more airplane operators in MIA/FLL etc. More competition, lower prices.
xxx
And the weather North or Central Florida can be cold in winter.
MIA/FLL has generally much warmer weather.
Airplane rental is not the only expense. Meals and motels are too.
xxx

Happy contrails

[davey147]

$200 ???

Please can someone confirm more details of this, because this is what I recieved in email from EAA-fly.com.

And to be honest, that put me off the whole hour building project in the US.


"
Cost of the flight review is difficult to predict.
It ultimately depends on how many hrs ground and flight instruction you require.
Preparation will obviously reduce the cost.
If, just for the sake of the discussion, we assume:

•6 hrs ground ( 2 hrs G1000, 4 hrs Flight review) $420
•6 hrs flight ( DA 40 FP/CS) $1,476
•For a total of $1,896"

If this is the quote from EAA-Fly then stay away from them. They are ripping you off !!

For a biannual review, it consists of 1 hour flight and 1 hour ground school (most schools dont even do the ground school, but they should) -- Pay no more than $200 MAXIMUM.

Go next door to NAC and do it, they wont rip you off, ive done many reviews there. Also REX AIR is upstairs, and London Aviation up the street. EAA-Fly is very expensive, the aeroplanes are very nice though! but in my opinion not worth the extra cash.

I agree with with the hour building in the USA, ive met tons of people who slag pilots off who do flying in the States, and I honestly dont know why. I find it harder to fly in America than I do in the UK, I personally took a 1 hour checkout flight at Multiflight after I did my PPL in the USA, and had no problems whatsoever, been flying over here for years, its boring compared to the USA but its flying . Each to their own I guess!

[Paris Dakar]

so just fill out by ESTA form and off i go?

In short yes! I was in Florida several weeks back and you still had to fill out the visa waiver forms manually prior to arrival despite completing the info on-line.

[selfin]

Originally Posted by tigermagicjohn

Does anybody have any more information regarding the flight review required?

14 CFR 61.56 (Flight review). Requirements at 61.57 (Recent flight experience) and JAR-FCL 1.026 (Amdt 2 - latest amdt)
can be met with during the one-hour flight requirement under 61.56. Does not require a TSA-Assessment.

Follow instructions at FAA foreign license (sic) verification webpage if not already in possession of a 61.75-certificate.
Ensure any existing 61.75-certificate states "English Proficient" in section XIII.

Flight review can be circumvented by qualifying for an unrestricted US-Private Pilot Certificate
which does in most cases require a TSA-Assessment (see 61.39(c), 61.41, 61.1(b)(2)(iii) & 61.1(b)(3) and 61-Subpart E.)

[gfunc]

Just for comparison, I had a 7 year hiatus from flying but my combined retraining, BFR, conversion to new type (C172) and club checkout was accomplished in 2 flights of 2 hours 40 minutes total. I'm certainly no superpilot!

I think with the instructor ground time (an hour or so) the total cost was below $300. That $1900 is a rip off! Assuming you are current it really shouldn't be more than a check ride and a little chat to see if you can read the map and know how to make use of the ATC services.

Note that you don't need to do the BFR at the place you rent from, any qualified CFI can do it (I think!), just turn up somewhere else, spend 2 hours and $200 to get the signature in the logbook and other than an organisation specific insurance checkout, you'll good to go.

Hope this helps,

Gareth.

[PA28Viking]

Watch out!

Hour building in the States can be done without visa. The newly chances () only requires you to register for the visa waiver program BEFORE you fly, and during a transition period you will probably still have to fill out the forms in flight anyway.

But you also need a FAA PPL. That is either one you qualified for during training in the US (and kept current) OR a ‘piggy back’ FAA license which is based on your JAR PPL, and is valid as long as your JAR license and medical is valid. It is an up to three – four month process, and you can find the details in one of the sticky posts in the private flying forum, I think. You start by applying in writing to the FAA, and finish by visiting one of the local FAA offices. If you do not have this in place before you go, then forget about any flying.

Then where you rent the plane, the will give you around one hour instruction about US airspace etc. and then one-two hours check-out where you demonstrate that it is likely that you will bring the plane back in one piece. So you will demonstrate slow flight, slow speed stalls, high speed stalls, steep turns and some landings. Where I did it (Bay Air in St. Petersburg), it was all done in a very relaxed atmosphere, with a very friendly instructor.

But remember: No FAA (Piggy back) license – No flying.

[A and C]

Irishpilot1990

Quote

A and C constantly makes posts against people going abroad.

Yes I do! and having flown both GA and for an airline in the USA I think that I might have a better overall view than a number of the people new to aviation who seem to be dazzed by the bright lights of the USA and blinded by the "rip-off" UK syndrome that inhabits these forums.

The USA headline price is undoubtedly attractive but the weather is not all it is cracked up to be with thunderstorms and strong winds being the major enemy of low time pilots in Florida, this is one of the reasons for looking at Michigan in the summer. being mid continent the weather is more stable, the other reason is that Florida is more expensive to live in however I would not recomend it during the winter.

The standard of aircraft is much more variable than in Europe with some very good aircraft but more than a few that I would not tie my dog too! The only way to find out what the company has to offer is to visit.
I did my FAA CPL/IR in the USA and despite thinking that I had it set up from this side of the Atlantic it did not happen as planned due to the compleat inability to organise on the part of the pre booked company. six weeks and two companys later I found a very good place but at about 50% higher cost than the cheapest. I was working in the USA so the delay was not a problem but what would happen to you if you only had three weeks leave?

Flying in the USA did not in any way help me to fly in Europe and for a low time pilot this might require some re-training in Europe and you have to cost that into the total flying bill.

What I want to bring to this debate in not an anti-USA message but one of balance I have seen a lot of people get stung in the USA and come back short of more than a few hours and some very bad habits. On the other hand I know people who have had a great time flying in the USA and achived all that they set out to do................ the split is about 50/50.

I do have a bit of an axe to grind on this issue because I do lease aircraft to hours builders, however this gives me a lot of feedback from my customers and a very current few on the hours building business.

I know that I will have more customers who have had disapointments in the USA but it would be nice to get the business from them from day one rather than see them spend a lot of money for very little more than a disrupted hoilday.