Am I kidding myself..?
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Am I kidding myself? (Beware: Perpetual am I too old Thread)
Right, i've just turned 30 and am about 20hrs into my ppl course.
I love it, seriously love it, becoming quite obsessed actually. When i'm not working i'm on here and other various sites, reading my training books or flight simmin' (just to keep the momentum going)! I am, of course, hoping to pursue it full-time, in any employed capacity.
The whole 'boyhood dream' thing lingered for years and thanks to recent eye-surgery it has/could become reality.
I run a business that, so far, has avoided the teeth of the recession, so with a bit of luck will be able to continue financing this for the foreseeable future. I am married, and we're expecting baby 'Sully' (lol) later in the year.
Based on these factors I am planning/hoping to gain my fATPL in around 3 years (2012).
By the time I get my wings i'll be 33/34. I am hoping the industry will be looking up a little by then and there will be a few more jobs around. However, I see Fo's and Cpt's that are early twenties, with fewer commitments, bight-eyed and bushy-tailed, with more 'service life' in them and I have to ask myself; 'if I was recruiting for an airline, would I want the younger, more energetic and adaptable candidate or the father-of-xx who fancied a career-change in his mid-30s!?'
Are there any people a similar situation to myself, or any that have been there and decided against it or even achieved it? If so am very interested to hear your thoughts!
Thanks in advance.
I love it, seriously love it, becoming quite obsessed actually. When i'm not working i'm on here and other various sites, reading my training books or flight simmin' (just to keep the momentum going)! I am, of course, hoping to pursue it full-time, in any employed capacity.
The whole 'boyhood dream' thing lingered for years and thanks to recent eye-surgery it has/could become reality.
I run a business that, so far, has avoided the teeth of the recession, so with a bit of luck will be able to continue financing this for the foreseeable future. I am married, and we're expecting baby 'Sully' (lol) later in the year.
Based on these factors I am planning/hoping to gain my fATPL in around 3 years (2012).
By the time I get my wings i'll be 33/34. I am hoping the industry will be looking up a little by then and there will be a few more jobs around. However, I see Fo's and Cpt's that are early twenties, with fewer commitments, bight-eyed and bushy-tailed, with more 'service life' in them and I have to ask myself; 'if I was recruiting for an airline, would I want the younger, more energetic and adaptable candidate or the father-of-xx who fancied a career-change in his mid-30s!?'
Are there any people a similar situation to myself, or any that have been there and decided against it or even achieved it? If so am very interested to hear your thoughts!
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by DB777; 8th Mar 2009 at 18:34.
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Mate this sounds very much like "The Perpetual am I too old "Thread which is perhaps why you havent receieved any responses . I would have look at that matey , it will save you getting very sarcastic and sometimes uncalled for abuse
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Good evening DB777,
Well, I am your early twenties (20, to be precise), with fewer commitments, bight-eyed and bushy-tailed FO, so perhaps I can offer some insight based on what I've seen.
I have seen people your age nurture their ambition out of its shell and take the plunge into flight training. I have then watched them fail, due to financial, personal, family, or generally circumstantial issues.
I have seen people aged 17 nurture their ambition out of its shell and take the plunge into flight training. I have then watched them fail, due to financial, personal, family, or generally circumstantial issues.
Now re-write those two sentences in ANY way you wish, and they still hold truth. You can take any mix of people involved in this industry (or looking to get involved) and there will be those who make it and those who don't, whatever their age.
To give you a short concise answer to your question, no, you are not kidding yourself.
Your age is no problem whatsoever, so you can stop worrying about that.
As a businessman, I'm sure you keep a sharp watch on what the Economic phugoid is up to, and THAT is what you want to be watching.
2012 - personally, I think if you qualify then the situation may be marginally better than it is now, but not a great deal. I think a more realistic time to plan on finishing is 2013/2014, especially as you have a family, which is something else to watch! There are countless horror stories about how training for this profession can seriously screw up your home life, and it's really up to you how you deal with that. For this reason, I would suggest modular training (which is also cheaper and can be spread out), but again, that's a personal decision for you.
Remember, even if the economy is on the rise when you qualify, there is still a large influx of qualified pilots to soak back into the game before the new guys get a look in. You may be offered a job by us (Ryanair), but that's another 30k euros out your pocket.
Sure, there are plenty of other flying jobs dotted around - aerial work, glider towing, bush flying/air taxi so on so forth, but I'm going on the basis that you have a family and a business to support.
So to summarise my opinion to you - Train modular because it's cheaper, can be spread out over a longer time period and allows you to plan around your work/family lives. Aim for late 2012 at the EARLIEST to qualify, unless you could comfortably finance licence renewals out of your own pocket until you find a job. And to reiterate, your age is absolutely not a problem. I know people who started in their late 40s flying the big iron these days!
I suppose the most important point to make, is have fun!
ta, ad
Well, I am your early twenties (20, to be precise), with fewer commitments, bight-eyed and bushy-tailed FO, so perhaps I can offer some insight based on what I've seen.
I have seen people your age nurture their ambition out of its shell and take the plunge into flight training. I have then watched them fail, due to financial, personal, family, or generally circumstantial issues.
I have seen people aged 17 nurture their ambition out of its shell and take the plunge into flight training. I have then watched them fail, due to financial, personal, family, or generally circumstantial issues.
Now re-write those two sentences in ANY way you wish, and they still hold truth. You can take any mix of people involved in this industry (or looking to get involved) and there will be those who make it and those who don't, whatever their age.
To give you a short concise answer to your question, no, you are not kidding yourself.
Your age is no problem whatsoever, so you can stop worrying about that.
As a businessman, I'm sure you keep a sharp watch on what the Economic phugoid is up to, and THAT is what you want to be watching.
2012 - personally, I think if you qualify then the situation may be marginally better than it is now, but not a great deal. I think a more realistic time to plan on finishing is 2013/2014, especially as you have a family, which is something else to watch! There are countless horror stories about how training for this profession can seriously screw up your home life, and it's really up to you how you deal with that. For this reason, I would suggest modular training (which is also cheaper and can be spread out), but again, that's a personal decision for you.
Remember, even if the economy is on the rise when you qualify, there is still a large influx of qualified pilots to soak back into the game before the new guys get a look in. You may be offered a job by us (Ryanair), but that's another 30k euros out your pocket.
Sure, there are plenty of other flying jobs dotted around - aerial work, glider towing, bush flying/air taxi so on so forth, but I'm going on the basis that you have a family and a business to support.
So to summarise my opinion to you - Train modular because it's cheaper, can be spread out over a longer time period and allows you to plan around your work/family lives. Aim for late 2012 at the EARLIEST to qualify, unless you could comfortably finance licence renewals out of your own pocket until you find a job. And to reiterate, your age is absolutely not a problem. I know people who started in their late 40s flying the big iron these days!
I suppose the most important point to make, is have fun!
ta, ad
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That's only my personal opinion, based on the safest bet so to speak.
There are guys out there who would tell you to train now because it'll probably be ok in a year. They may be right, but it's the less likely outcome. See, if you were single, unconnected etc etc I'd probably say crack on with it nice and slowly right away and be done in 12-18 months, because if you're prepared to go out with a backpack and get knocking on 101 doors around the world (i.e. Africa) you'll probably find some fellow who needs somebody to fly an aeroplane somewhere in exchange for some cash, and for him it's first come first serve if he/she likes you.
But then again,
Who knows......
There are guys out there who would tell you to train now because it'll probably be ok in a year. They may be right, but it's the less likely outcome. See, if you were single, unconnected etc etc I'd probably say crack on with it nice and slowly right away and be done in 12-18 months, because if you're prepared to go out with a backpack and get knocking on 101 doors around the world (i.e. Africa) you'll probably find some fellow who needs somebody to fly an aeroplane somewhere in exchange for some cash, and for him it's first come first serve if he/she likes you.
But then again,
Who knows......
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Hmmm yea I suppose your right. Good thing is that I am single and unconnected and minted (ok last bit isn't true). I am not really in a possition to start anthing untill early 2010 anyway. But then again you are right, who knows..... I wish someone did.
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Db77- Good advice from Reluctant 737.
I was 30 when I got my first airline job. Started training at 25. I did it the modular way and did it as I could afford it it was a long hard slog but I love it and still think it was worth it.
However I am now faced with redundancy (round 2) and am looking at working abroad.
In have a very supportive partener. No kids but I have rented my house out as I moved a few hundred miles to accept my first job.
Food for thought if you have a family.
If the job market is good when you qualify you could walk straight into a jet job .I did.
If the job market is poor it could be a rather long wait for anything.
I was 30 when I got my first airline job. Started training at 25. I did it the modular way and did it as I could afford it it was a long hard slog but I love it and still think it was worth it.
However I am now faced with redundancy (round 2) and am looking at working abroad.
In have a very supportive partener. No kids but I have rented my house out as I moved a few hundred miles to accept my first job.
Food for thought if you have a family.
If the job market is good when you qualify you could walk straight into a jet job .I did.
If the job market is poor it could be a rather long wait for anything.
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DB777
I obtained my 1st airline job when I was 34, and that was 18 months ago. If I can do it then trust me anyone can.
PM me if you want some support
D777
I obtained my 1st airline job when I was 34, and that was 18 months ago. If I can do it then trust me anyone can.
PM me if you want some support
D777
Age isn't the barrier it once was. Few airlines now expect to recruit and retain pilots for an entire career and desire a 30 year timeframe as they they once did. Anything under 40 wouldn't be an issue. There's a well trodden path of people in their mid to late 30's leaving the career seeking to start and civil career.
Good luck, but don't rush and manage your debt conservatively.
WWW
Good luck, but don't rush and manage your debt conservatively.
WWW
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Don't worry I will be starting my training in the middle of 2013 (There should be a change in the economy by then !!), I will be 44 (46 when finished), there are jobs available even at this age and older.
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All positive feedback (not always expected on here)
Sometimes a little inspiration is good to hear to help clear the cloud from the horizon, I may pester you for more in the future ;-)
Sometimes a little inspiration is good to hear to help clear the cloud from the horizon, I may pester you for more in the future ;-)
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Lots of good advice here sir.
If I can just add to the comments. As many of the PPRUNERS have indicated, your age is not really an issue, Like others, I got my first airline job at the age of 32.
From your circumstances, it look like you are perfectly placed, with a thriving business, financial security, and have your feet firmly on the ground. I am sure you know this already, but the course takes a certain degree of commitment from you and understanding from your partner when you are going through ATPL air law and tearing your hair out
.
All the best with it, I have said this numerous times on PPRUNE, but its a great job and certainly beats working for a living.
If I can just add to the comments. As many of the PPRUNERS have indicated, your age is not really an issue, Like others, I got my first airline job at the age of 32.
From your circumstances, it look like you are perfectly placed, with a thriving business, financial security, and have your feet firmly on the ground. I am sure you know this already, but the course takes a certain degree of commitment from you and understanding from your partner when you are going through ATPL air law and tearing your hair out
.All the best with it, I have said this numerous times on PPRUNE, but its a great job and certainly beats working for a living.
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Agreed. In fact on a good day it's not a job at all - it's just two mates going flying.
I escaped from a 'career' in shipping and got an airline job aged 36, and I know plenty of others with similar stories.
I escaped from a 'career' in shipping and got an airline job aged 36, and I know plenty of others with similar stories.
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CAT3C AUTOLAND, too true.
From the countless thread and posts i've read, it seems to be a balancing act of finances/time/aptitude ...and skill. I'm already struggling to find the time to read and i'm only at ppl stage!
I'm considering taking an aptitude test (Is there one on BALPAs site?), it's all very well (potentially) having finances but, like you say, even now i'm beginning to understand the commitment and self-motivation it takes whilst working etc.
It'll all be worth it if/when it's achieved.
G-SXTY; the wife already blames you for my obsession – she's read your very well informed posts (the same that reignited my ambition). I'll take this opportunity to thank you, and everyone else, for taking the time to post them. (Glad you're still enjoying life at FlyBe!)
From the countless thread and posts i've read, it seems to be a balancing act of finances/time/aptitude ...and skill. I'm already struggling to find the time to read and i'm only at ppl stage!
I'm considering taking an aptitude test (Is there one on BALPAs site?), it's all very well (potentially) having finances but, like you say, even now i'm beginning to understand the commitment and self-motivation it takes whilst working etc.
It'll all be worth it if/when it's achieved.
G-SXTY; the wife already blames you for my obsession – she's read your very well informed posts (the same that reignited my ambition). I'll take this opportunity to thank you, and everyone else, for taking the time to post them. (Glad you're still enjoying life at FlyBe!)
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That's okay, my missus blames me for everything as well.
I'd wholeheartedly recommend GAPAN's aptitude tests (which are aimed at zero to very low-houred candidates, so get in before your experience builds up too much). Unlike the schools, GAPAN aren't trying to sell you anything, so the tests are about as objective and unbiased as it's possible to be. They use the RAF's officer and aircrew selection facilities at Cranwell, so you'd be tapping into an enormous amount of experience.
I'd wholeheartedly recommend GAPAN's aptitude tests (which are aimed at zero to very low-houred candidates, so get in before your experience builds up too much). Unlike the schools, GAPAN aren't trying to sell you anything, so the tests are about as objective and unbiased as it's possible to be. They use the RAF's officer and aircrew selection facilities at Cranwell, so you'd be tapping into an enormous amount of experience.
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Hi DB777,
I am in a similar situation to you but a bit older at 35. After doing a lot of research and thanks to the help and advice from a particularly helpful PPRUNER I realised that there were 2 main things that were beyond my control:-
My ability to pass a Class 1 medical & my natural aptitude. I passed the Class 1 medical at Gatwick in January this year and did the GAPAN aptitude tests 2 weeks ago with zero hours flying experience.
I can wholeheartedly recommend the GAPAN aptitude tests. I really enjoyed the day and it was great to be able to go to RAF Cranwell and do the actual RAF aptitude tests. The day is run by dedicated commercial pilots from GAPAN that have given up their time to give impartial advice to wannabe pilots like us whether we are likely to succeed or not.
You will have a 1-2-1 interview after the tests at the end of the day and mine was with a recently retired airline Captain that was involved in the recruitment of new pilots. This is a golden opportunity to ask about any questions or concerns you have. I asked about my age and he told me that in his opinion he would see it as an advantage as I have a track record in a successful career to date and would have experiences/evidence to talk about as a result in the interview.
Overall the GAPAN assessment day has given me the confidence that based on the massive experience of GAPAN that I can make it and I don't feel I could have got this anywhere else.
I am now 8 hours into my PPL and loving it. I plan to keep the day job, get my PPL then spend 18 months or so doing the ATPL exams distance learning whilst building hours and see how things look then.
I am in a similar situation to you but a bit older at 35. After doing a lot of research and thanks to the help and advice from a particularly helpful PPRUNER I realised that there were 2 main things that were beyond my control:-
My ability to pass a Class 1 medical & my natural aptitude. I passed the Class 1 medical at Gatwick in January this year and did the GAPAN aptitude tests 2 weeks ago with zero hours flying experience.
I can wholeheartedly recommend the GAPAN aptitude tests. I really enjoyed the day and it was great to be able to go to RAF Cranwell and do the actual RAF aptitude tests. The day is run by dedicated commercial pilots from GAPAN that have given up their time to give impartial advice to wannabe pilots like us whether we are likely to succeed or not.
You will have a 1-2-1 interview after the tests at the end of the day and mine was with a recently retired airline Captain that was involved in the recruitment of new pilots. This is a golden opportunity to ask about any questions or concerns you have. I asked about my age and he told me that in his opinion he would see it as an advantage as I have a track record in a successful career to date and would have experiences/evidence to talk about as a result in the interview.
Overall the GAPAN assessment day has given me the confidence that based on the massive experience of GAPAN that I can make it and I don't feel I could have got this anywhere else.
I am now 8 hours into my PPL and loving it. I plan to keep the day job, get my PPL then spend 18 months or so doing the ATPL exams distance learning whilst building hours and see how things look then.
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Afternoon,
Good thread this, and reassuring for all those slightly older folks who are thinking about potting their current careers and trying something else!
It's interesting to note that the "am I too old?" thread is the third most viewed and replied to thread on this forum. Makes me wonder just how many older wannabes (and pilots who qualified later) there are out there
Regards.
JR
Good thread this, and reassuring for all those slightly older folks who are thinking about potting their current careers and trying something else!
It's interesting to note that the "am I too old?" thread is the third most viewed and replied to thread on this forum. Makes me wonder just how many older wannabes (and pilots who qualified later) there are out there
Regards.
JR