Need Advice for further training
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Neither here nor there
Age: 41
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Need Advice for further training
HI guys, my present position is: I am holding a FAA PPL for a couple of years, (Always went on holiday flying in the US) So I got more than 100h PIC now. And I recently passed the 14 JAA UK ATPL exams... I'm unsure of what should be the next move.. (Go for IR ME , or CPL first?) and where?. On the other hand I heard that it's really hard for newcomers to get jobs these days.... And I'm on a budget, got about 20k(euros) and not willing to take a loan if the jobmarked is really that unsure...... What do u guys think I should do? and is it realistic to finish my training with that amount of money?
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: london
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CPL first surely. Build more hours so you go into the ME/IR with as much flight ex as possible. Other could confirm but I don't think 20'000EU would cover the remaining hours you need to build and the ME/IR then MCC.
I may be wrong. Either way, I doubt you'll get much change.
I'll leave www to comment on the current job market and 2-year projection
I may be wrong. Either way, I doubt you'll get much change.
I'll leave www to comment on the current job market and 2-year projection
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: England
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is currently a glut of pilots due to the parlous state of aviation at present. We have seen redundancies already from bmibaby and there is speculation about Virgin and others.
Historically it is the big employers with the most pilots that control the recruitment market because once they start recruiting there is movement upwards from FI to Air Taxi to Regional airline to Major. A process that takes two to three years in a buoyant market is now stagnant. Worse than that, there will undoubtedly be a number of airlines going to the wall and this will increase the number of qualified pilots in the marketplace.
Any airline will select the better qualified pilots to minimise their training costs / risks. It stands to reason that if they have the choice between a TRE on their type and a person fresh out of training they will go for the better value.
There are those with deep pockets that can pay for the qualifications and experience - even as far as line training - to make themselves more attractive to the airlines. However from your post you do not have those deep pockets or wisely decided not to squander it at this stage!.
With limited funds your problem is trying to predict when to step onto the training ladder so that you emerge onto the market as the supply of pilots is dwindling.
The only pointer I can give you is that it will take an upturn in the economy to get the aviation business to expand again and, according to my financial advisors, the first sign of that will be the stock market starting to grow. When you see signs of growth it will show confidence in the economy (global and domestic) so that should be the trigger to reconsider your position.
Sorry if it is a gloomy picture but that's my twopenn'orth!
HWB
PS the other bit is simple - CPL then ME/IR!
Historically it is the big employers with the most pilots that control the recruitment market because once they start recruiting there is movement upwards from FI to Air Taxi to Regional airline to Major. A process that takes two to three years in a buoyant market is now stagnant. Worse than that, there will undoubtedly be a number of airlines going to the wall and this will increase the number of qualified pilots in the marketplace.
Any airline will select the better qualified pilots to minimise their training costs / risks. It stands to reason that if they have the choice between a TRE on their type and a person fresh out of training they will go for the better value.
There are those with deep pockets that can pay for the qualifications and experience - even as far as line training - to make themselves more attractive to the airlines. However from your post you do not have those deep pockets or wisely decided not to squander it at this stage!.
With limited funds your problem is trying to predict when to step onto the training ladder so that you emerge onto the market as the supply of pilots is dwindling.
The only pointer I can give you is that it will take an upturn in the economy to get the aviation business to expand again and, according to my financial advisors, the first sign of that will be the stock market starting to grow. When you see signs of growth it will show confidence in the economy (global and domestic) so that should be the trigger to reconsider your position.
Sorry if it is a gloomy picture but that's my twopenn'orth!
HWB
PS the other bit is simple - CPL then ME/IR!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Neither here nor there
Age: 41
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thx for the fast reply. I don't really see why I have to build more hours. Sure it's always better to have more, but from my knowledge 115PIC should be enough to meet the standarts for CPL and ME/IR...
@Halfwayback So do u think it would be clever to just go for the CPL and then wait for the ME/IR till the job marked looks better? ON the other hand I'm allready 26 and the older I get the less likely it is to get a Pilot Job.....
@Halfwayback So do u think it would be clever to just go for the CPL and then wait for the ME/IR till the job marked looks better? ON the other hand I'm allready 26 and the older I get the less likely it is to get a Pilot Job.....
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: london
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"ON the other hand I'm allready 26 and the older I get the less likely it is to get a Pilot Job..... "
come on mate. I'm 25 and I'm nowhere near the "i'm getting older so I better start now" mentality. Man, we are kids!!!!!
come on mate. I'm 25 and I'm nowhere near the "i'm getting older so I better start now" mentality. Man, we are kids!!!!!
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: England
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To put it simply, I would
HWB
BTW I started my ATPL at age 45 and subsequently flew jets for an UK major in the LHS! 26? - just reaching prime of life!
- continue to enjoy the flying at the PPL level
- research / read more about the subjects you will require to take
- establish the rules for completing the writtens (NB)
- establish the rules regarding currency of flight tests.
HWB
BTW I started my ATPL at age 45 and subsequently flew jets for an UK major in the LHS! 26? - just reaching prime of life!
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Salop
Age: 57
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
..........you could do your CPL, then get an Instructor rating, teach PPL, then do an MEIR when the market picks up, or before your 'credits' expire !
Just a thought !
Just a thought !
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not too many instructing jobs around at the moment, and lots of people graduating from FI courses in the next few weeks. FTN magazine was full of them 4 months ago, but nothing now. I wouldn't do an FI course unless you plan on instructing part time, or have a job secured before you start the course.
Best to do the CPL, monitor timing of your ATPL exams as halfwayback says, then continue with your current job until the market changes, picking up any flying you can (para dropping, glider towing, touring, photo flying etc). At least then you'll only be 6 weeks (MEP/IR course) away from being ready and won't have committed to the really expensive bit.
Best to do the CPL, monitor timing of your ATPL exams as halfwayback says, then continue with your current job until the market changes, picking up any flying you can (para dropping, glider towing, touring, photo flying etc). At least then you'll only be 6 weeks (MEP/IR course) away from being ready and won't have committed to the really expensive bit.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Neither here nor there
Age: 41
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thx for the Advise, I decided to go for the CPL in 4 weeks Then get back to my normal job and save up more money..... I know someone who might get me a crop dusting job for the summer, that might be fun
There's one more Question: I passed my last ATPL exams in Oct 2008, does that mean I got till OCT 2011 to get my IR ME done?
There's one more Question: I passed my last ATPL exams in Oct 2008, does that mean I got till OCT 2011 to get my IR ME done?
Last edited by Ronand; 22nd Feb 2009 at 17:06.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ronand.
While I'm pleased to see that someone is helping you find work I'm afraid that there is absolutely no way that a pilot with just over 100 hours will be allowed to work cropdusting.
For one thing insurers won't agree to it. A heavily laden aircraft flown to it's limits at very, very low level near trees, often underneath wires with extremely precise navigation (chemicals are expensive and over or underdosing can have catastrophic consequences) with quick turnaround/load times..........it's a recipe for disaster. Secondly it's a very specialised area and the operators I've known have insisted on 1000 hours as an absolute minimum plus one, preferably two seasons mixing and loading the chemicals during which would-be pilots might be allowed to handle the positioning flights.
If you can get some ground work with the occasional flight thrown in, fantastic. Sadly I think someone's having you on.
Get yourself to this forum, it's where cropdusting gets discussed on here. The paucity of threads on the subject should tell you something though http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc-36/
While I'm pleased to see that someone is helping you find work I'm afraid that there is absolutely no way that a pilot with just over 100 hours will be allowed to work cropdusting.
For one thing insurers won't agree to it. A heavily laden aircraft flown to it's limits at very, very low level near trees, often underneath wires with extremely precise navigation (chemicals are expensive and over or underdosing can have catastrophic consequences) with quick turnaround/load times..........it's a recipe for disaster. Secondly it's a very specialised area and the operators I've known have insisted on 1000 hours as an absolute minimum plus one, preferably two seasons mixing and loading the chemicals during which would-be pilots might be allowed to handle the positioning flights.
If you can get some ground work with the occasional flight thrown in, fantastic. Sadly I think someone's having you on.
Get yourself to this forum, it's where cropdusting gets discussed on here. The paucity of threads on the subject should tell you something though http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc-36/
It has all the ingredients of a very short career.
