Degree.
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Degree.
Hello!
I would like to ask if a degree in airline management is actually usefull or a waste of time?I mean is it a good backup if something goes wrong with your medical?What kind of employment can you find with this degree?And is there any jobs?
Bye
I would like to ask if a degree in airline management is actually usefull or a waste of time?I mean is it a good backup if something goes wrong with your medical?What kind of employment can you find with this degree?And is there any jobs?
Bye
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Waste of time, if you want to get a job in management a proper management degree would be worth a lot more.
This would mean that you could enter into more industries than just aviation.
This would mean that you could enter into more industries than just aviation.
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Actually some airlines require a degree for you to be able to apply for a job.
Most of the airlines dont but as I said I know a few that do, so it all comes down to you and who you wish to fly for.
My personl opinion is that it should not be a requirement for you to get a job but I believe is helps you, if you have an aviation related degree, to look at situations and be able to judge them in a better way than a person that does not have a degree.
It also helps if you want to get involve in the management side of aviation.
CY
Most of the airlines dont but as I said I know a few that do, so it all comes down to you and who you wish to fly for.
My personl opinion is that it should not be a requirement for you to get a job but I believe is helps you, if you have an aviation related degree, to look at situations and be able to judge them in a better way than a person that does not have a degree.
It also helps if you want to get involve in the management side of aviation.
CY
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HEALTH WARNING....I am directly involved in running a pilot training related degree.
To answer your question you need to consider what type of job you might wish to take up.
For some jobs such as Chartered Engineer or Accountant, the choice of degrees is extremely limited. But for many jobs, the exact nature of your degree is far less important than the fact that you are doing a degree.
During my service in the RN I knew quite a few pilots who had degrees in subjects such as History and Geography. On one course I met a Submarine Officer who had done his degree in French. He chose this subject because he didn’t want to do the usual engineering stuff, he liked the idea of spending a couple of years in Paris, and the Navy was paying. He is now the CO of a Nuclear Submarine, where the use of French is not at all common.
The greatest benefit that you are likely to gain from doing a degree is the development of your key life skills. Having done a degree, you are likely to be far more able to deal with complex concepts, express your ideas clearly and convincingly, and plan and execute tasks efficiently. In short you are likely to be a far more employable person.
All of the above is of course based on the assumption that you actually put some effort and enthusiasm into your degree. For this reason it is clearly better if you choose something in which you are interested.
One of the advantages of the various “Pilot Training / Airline Management” type degrees is that they enable you to combine getting a degree with doing your ATPL training. This is cheaper and quicker than doing the two consecutively. This advantage must of course be balanced against all of the other factors in making your choice about which degree to take.
To answer your question you need to consider what type of job you might wish to take up.
For some jobs such as Chartered Engineer or Accountant, the choice of degrees is extremely limited. But for many jobs, the exact nature of your degree is far less important than the fact that you are doing a degree.
During my service in the RN I knew quite a few pilots who had degrees in subjects such as History and Geography. On one course I met a Submarine Officer who had done his degree in French. He chose this subject because he didn’t want to do the usual engineering stuff, he liked the idea of spending a couple of years in Paris, and the Navy was paying. He is now the CO of a Nuclear Submarine, where the use of French is not at all common.
The greatest benefit that you are likely to gain from doing a degree is the development of your key life skills. Having done a degree, you are likely to be far more able to deal with complex concepts, express your ideas clearly and convincingly, and plan and execute tasks efficiently. In short you are likely to be a far more employable person.
All of the above is of course based on the assumption that you actually put some effort and enthusiasm into your degree. For this reason it is clearly better if you choose something in which you are interested.
One of the advantages of the various “Pilot Training / Airline Management” type degrees is that they enable you to combine getting a degree with doing your ATPL training. This is cheaper and quicker than doing the two consecutively. This advantage must of course be balanced against all of the other factors in making your choice about which degree to take.
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Keith, whilst the basic tenet of your post is valid, one can train in Accountancy with pretty much any degree, preferably one that shows some ability with maths but I know Chartered Accountants with degrees in History, Social Sciences and German 
Law, on the other hand .....
Cheers
Whirls
Law, on the other hand .....
Cheers
Whirls
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Actually some airlines require a degree for you to be able to apply for a job.
Most of the airlines dont but as I said I know a few that do, so it all comes down to you and who you wish to fly for.
Most of the airlines dont but as I said I know a few that do, so it all comes down to you and who you wish to fly for.
If you are interested in doing management you should do a proper qualified management role that has professional status from organisations such as Chartered Management Institute, Chartered Instition of Personnel Development or the likes.
You need to use your degree as a back up, what happens if the airline industry collapses? You would be stuck.
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Are you suggesting that Airlines and commercial flying in general will soon become a thing of the past?
But as stated, you want to do your degree for other reasons, so that won't matter to you.
Cheers
JR
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Are you suggesting that Airlines and commercial flying in general will soon become a thing of the past?
Airlines are barely recruiting at the moment, in fact heres a challenege for you. Go find an airline that is advertising management jobs in the UK, I bet there aren't many.
A general management degree would let you into both airline and other areas of management, in fact I would suggest it would teach you more about management than an airline course anyway.
My point is: the degrees related to aviation aren't just worthless pieces of paper, they just constrict you to a very limited number of options
And, to reiterate previous posts, a degree aimed at a specific industry does NOT mean it excludes you from other industries as well.
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Degrees
Opinion here - and logic as well -
xxx
Having a degree is an excellent idea.
I would recommend any airline pilot to have a degree.
But not necessarily an "aviation degree" - but one in a different field.
xxx
Some pilots take aviation degrees as they get "college credits" as CPL/IR.
And vice-versa - looks "nice to have aviation degree" for pilot interview...
Not necessarily - They look at your education level. That is all.
xxx
In fact, in airline recession periods, like we suffer now, pilots are losing jobs.
So some "managers" in airline offices lose jobs too... both suffer...
So - diversify your qualifications.
When I got furloughed in 1973, initially I did French-English translations.
Airbus A-300 technical translations - for Eastern Airlines.
I was also a French teacher in a Berlitz language school.
And part-time Learjet pilot and instructor... I survived.
xxx
Lesson - Get a degree in a completely different field.
Be i.e. a teacher, history, geography, languages.
The economic crisis may affect airlines. But maybe teachers are needed.
Or accountants... or surveyors... or underwater basket weaving...
xxx
Happy contrails
xxx
Having a degree is an excellent idea.
I would recommend any airline pilot to have a degree.
But not necessarily an "aviation degree" - but one in a different field.
xxx
Some pilots take aviation degrees as they get "college credits" as CPL/IR.
And vice-versa - looks "nice to have aviation degree" for pilot interview...
Not necessarily - They look at your education level. That is all.
xxx
In fact, in airline recession periods, like we suffer now, pilots are losing jobs.
So some "managers" in airline offices lose jobs too... both suffer...
So - diversify your qualifications.
When I got furloughed in 1973, initially I did French-English translations.
Airbus A-300 technical translations - for Eastern Airlines.
I was also a French teacher in a Berlitz language school.
And part-time Learjet pilot and instructor... I survived.
xxx
Lesson - Get a degree in a completely different field.
Be i.e. a teacher, history, geography, languages.
The economic crisis may affect airlines. But maybe teachers are needed.
Or accountants... or surveyors... or underwater basket weaving...
xxx
Happy contrails
Teaching....
... has been mentioned. In UK, it's becoming increasingly difficult to just 'drift' into teaching, because you can't think of what else to do. Teaching is a good and enjoyable job, and well fitted to modular training, so i recommend it. BUT, if it's in your plan, study a degree with relevance to the curriculum : a good candidate I have working for me did Photography at uni. Now she's struggling to get a TT place.
CG
CG
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Far too many people see a degree as simply a means of getting a piece of paper. This is the worst possible way to view it.
In doing a degree you should be aiming to improve your education and to develop your key skills. If done correctly you will come out of your degree course as a far more capable and employable person than you were when you went into it. The piece of paper may get you to a job interview. But for most jobs, the improved key skills will be the greatest factor in deciding whether or not you get the job.
But if you are simply chasing a piece of paper you will gain very little. You will probably turn out to be one of those students who turns up once a week, complains about "all of the pressure and the hard work", and constantly cries "my friends on the Blah Blah Blah degree don't have to do all of this stuff". As a result of this approach you will probably never pass your degree and will certainly achieve very little in terms of personal development. In short you will have wasted several years of your life. Even if you do get the degree and it gets you to a job interview, you are unlikely to get through the interview successfully.
Those people who see degrees simply as pieces of paper often state that Foundation Degrees are not "real degrees". What these people choose to overlook is the fact that in most cases the FD is simply the first 2 years of a 3 year BSc(Hons) or BA(Hons) Course. In effect they are 3 year courses, with the option to leave after 2 years with a reduced qualification. But the FD also gives you the option to return to the BSc or BA course at a later date. In entering this type of course your initial plan should be to do the full 3 years and gain as much as you possibly can from the course.
In doing a degree you should be aiming to improve your education and to develop your key skills. If done correctly you will come out of your degree course as a far more capable and employable person than you were when you went into it. The piece of paper may get you to a job interview. But for most jobs, the improved key skills will be the greatest factor in deciding whether or not you get the job.
But if you are simply chasing a piece of paper you will gain very little. You will probably turn out to be one of those students who turns up once a week, complains about "all of the pressure and the hard work", and constantly cries "my friends on the Blah Blah Blah degree don't have to do all of this stuff". As a result of this approach you will probably never pass your degree and will certainly achieve very little in terms of personal development. In short you will have wasted several years of your life. Even if you do get the degree and it gets you to a job interview, you are unlikely to get through the interview successfully.
Those people who see degrees simply as pieces of paper often state that Foundation Degrees are not "real degrees". What these people choose to overlook is the fact that in most cases the FD is simply the first 2 years of a 3 year BSc(Hons) or BA(Hons) Course. In effect they are 3 year courses, with the option to leave after 2 years with a reduced qualification. But the FD also gives you the option to return to the BSc or BA course at a later date. In entering this type of course your initial plan should be to do the full 3 years and gain as much as you possibly can from the course.
I agree with most of what you say Keith (indeed, apart from the last paragraph, I agree wholeheartedly).
I have some reservations about the genuine educational value of Foundation Degrees. There is a subtle distinction between education and training and I think that they are closer to the latter.
(The best way I've come across to define the difference is that if you had a daughter and she came back from school saying she'd done sex education you'd not be all that worried - if she said she'd done sex training, you'd be rather cross and worried).
Training is good and valid stuff - I've done a lot of it, from PPL to CPL, first aid training, even courses in Jiu Jitsu. Education is more abstract - it is about the development of mental faculty, reasoning ability, problem solving...
I personally feel that the jury is still out about FD graduates genuinely being able to hack the final year of a true BSc; it also made the time and effort to get something called a degree rather shorter than it ever was before - which I find troubling given that the time to get a degree in the UK was already shorter than almost any other country and caused other countries to regard our British educational system with some suspicion.
That said, I think that what the likes of yourselves have done with the FD is a very good thing - I just mostly have concerns about the FD being called a degree, and have done since it was introduced.
G
I have some reservations about the genuine educational value of Foundation Degrees. There is a subtle distinction between education and training and I think that they are closer to the latter.
(The best way I've come across to define the difference is that if you had a daughter and she came back from school saying she'd done sex education you'd not be all that worried - if she said she'd done sex training, you'd be rather cross and worried).
Training is good and valid stuff - I've done a lot of it, from PPL to CPL, first aid training, even courses in Jiu Jitsu. Education is more abstract - it is about the development of mental faculty, reasoning ability, problem solving...
I personally feel that the jury is still out about FD graduates genuinely being able to hack the final year of a true BSc; it also made the time and effort to get something called a degree rather shorter than it ever was before - which I find troubling given that the time to get a degree in the UK was already shorter than almost any other country and caused other countries to regard our British educational system with some suspicion.
That said, I think that what the likes of yourselves have done with the FD is a very good thing - I just mostly have concerns about the FD being called a degree, and have done since it was introduced.
G
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I think one thing that people disregard when discussing the pro's and con's of an 'airline managment' degree or whatever, is that fact that all of these 'pilot degree's' are coupled with a full atpl course.
No less than 6 months ago, I was looking at doing one of these degrees myself. Okay, I lied, I was looking at doing an fATPL and getting a degree for it
However, I was quickly put off by speaking to people on these courses. I heard from one person that year one was a few videos and a maths and science lesson (+ppl), year two was atpl ground school and then there was the optional third year of actual degree work for the top up bit (when you did the cpl+ir etc in your own time).
Now its easy to see why these degrees hold little credibility (without starting the perpetual atpl's should be recongnized qualifications argument).
If this recession wasnt upon us and I had the money to do the atpl, I would probably be on one of these degree courses, however, I am sitting here still thinking about what to do in the current economy and my current economy...
No less than 6 months ago, I was looking at doing one of these degrees myself. Okay, I lied, I was looking at doing an fATPL and getting a degree for it
However, I was quickly put off by speaking to people on these courses. I heard from one person that year one was a few videos and a maths and science lesson (+ppl), year two was atpl ground school and then there was the optional third year of actual degree work for the top up bit (when you did the cpl+ir etc in your own time).
Now its easy to see why these degrees hold little credibility (without starting the perpetual atpl's should be recongnized qualifications argument).
If this recession wasnt upon us and I had the money to do the atpl, I would probably be on one of these degree courses, however, I am sitting here still thinking about what to do in the current economy and my current economy...
I heard from one person that year one was a few videos and a maths and science lesson (+ppl),
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Having read this thread it is pretty obvious that there are many of you out there that believe a degree in an aviation topic is not useful, well having graduated with one i totally disagree.
I agree with a lot of what Keith says with regards to the development of you as a person and it does give you the chance to grow up, interact and learn many KEY skills which came in extremely important during my flight training.
As for the comments about course content, year one in any degree is easy, its designed to be so to allow you to develop the skills you need in the following years and not to bombard you with information at an early stage. Think of it this way, if you were on your first ever PPL flight and your instuctor was to breif you on take off, stalling, emergencies, radio, the curcuit, climbing & decending...... (the list goes on) how much do you really think you would retain while you were in the air on later flights?
Level one of the degree at Bucks looked at many different areas within the industry such as ground handling systems used and airline marketing. Neither is directly related to flying but both came in handy in interviews, trust me.
Also the PPL is included in level one, you have to pass it to get onto level two, which is the same as the ATPL theory, but neither is put towards your final degree classification.
Before you all criticise this type of course I suggest you look into them in some depth. While those of you that had degree's in other subjects spent your summers relaxing or on holidays we were working our asses off doing PPL, Hours Building, CPL and IR's.
This course should not be taken lightly of seen as an easy way to combine both a degree and fATPL, you can achieve it but only if you work hard as several on my course found out when they failed sections.
Jamie
P.S. dont even start talking to me about Foundation Degree's, until someone shows me an employer that actually recognises them I dont think they are worth the paper they are printed on.
I agree with a lot of what Keith says with regards to the development of you as a person and it does give you the chance to grow up, interact and learn many KEY skills which came in extremely important during my flight training.
As for the comments about course content, year one in any degree is easy, its designed to be so to allow you to develop the skills you need in the following years and not to bombard you with information at an early stage. Think of it this way, if you were on your first ever PPL flight and your instuctor was to breif you on take off, stalling, emergencies, radio, the curcuit, climbing & decending...... (the list goes on) how much do you really think you would retain while you were in the air on later flights?
Level one of the degree at Bucks looked at many different areas within the industry such as ground handling systems used and airline marketing. Neither is directly related to flying but both came in handy in interviews, trust me.
Also the PPL is included in level one, you have to pass it to get onto level two, which is the same as the ATPL theory, but neither is put towards your final degree classification.
Before you all criticise this type of course I suggest you look into them in some depth. While those of you that had degree's in other subjects spent your summers relaxing or on holidays we were working our asses off doing PPL, Hours Building, CPL and IR's.
This course should not be taken lightly of seen as an easy way to combine both a degree and fATPL, you can achieve it but only if you work hard as several on my course found out when they failed sections.
Jamie
P.S. dont even start talking to me about Foundation Degree's, until someone shows me an employer that actually recognises them I dont think they are worth the paper they are printed on.