How valid are flight instructor hours?
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How valid are flight instructor hours?
Somebody told me that when a JAA student goes to instruct in America and teaches FAA students these hours can not be logged and used when you apply to an airline in JAA state, is this true?
What if i wanted to teach and then apply for an airline in Asia, like Cathay Pacific, I assume they would incude these hours in your total time as I know other instructors who have worked there after teaching in the U.S. So if a large airline like Cathay includes them in your total time why would an airline like Virgin or BA not?
What if i wanted to teach and then apply for an airline in Asia, like Cathay Pacific, I assume they would incude these hours in your total time as I know other instructors who have worked there after teaching in the U.S. So if a large airline like Cathay includes them in your total time why would an airline like Virgin or BA not?
Hiya laakdown,
“… somebody told me that when a JAA student goes to instruct in America …” – I assume you mean that “…when a JAA licence holder with an FI rating goes to instruct in America …..”
From my knowledge, any hours you fly as an Instructor would be valid, though you will have to get an FAA licence and an FAA FI rating to instruct the FAA syllabus. Indeed, from my understanding, the only question revolves round the differences between the way the FAA and JAA deal with "hour building" flying where two PPL hire an aircraft and burn holes in the sky. You would need to check that out but I believe the difference is that, under FAA rules, both pilots can log the time hour building but, under JAA rules, only the handling pilot can claim the time. This assumes that the aircraft being used is a single crew aircraft – which all the usual PPL hire aircraft (152, 172, PA-28, etc, etc) are.
All your "Instructional Hours" as an FI should count as "In Command" no problems. Indeed, from my understanding, most airlines like Instructors. Lets face it, after 1000+ hours Instructing + all your training hours + any PPL P1 time, you will have significant experience over and above an Integrated student straight out the box. After all, they have not have had the pleasure of salvaging aircraft from the weird and wonderful situations students sometime place an aircraft in when trying to devise yet another, even more imaginative, way to kill you! Also, airlines in turn need Instructors so, to have a pool of people who have basic Instructional Technique experience, is also a plus when it comes to selecting future TRIs/TREs. I’ll not enter a “good instructor/poor instructor” debate here! Another topic that is all together.
If anyone else knows different please shout as this is just based on my experience. Personally, Instructing is where I’m heading back to! Clearly, I miss that “my life flashing before my eyes” experience which you don’t get Line flying – generally!!!! I must be mad but I can’t wait!!!!! Hope this helps.
Regards, H 'n' H
“… somebody told me that when a JAA student goes to instruct in America …” – I assume you mean that “…when a JAA licence holder with an FI rating goes to instruct in America …..”
From my knowledge, any hours you fly as an Instructor would be valid, though you will have to get an FAA licence and an FAA FI rating to instruct the FAA syllabus. Indeed, from my understanding, the only question revolves round the differences between the way the FAA and JAA deal with "hour building" flying where two PPL hire an aircraft and burn holes in the sky. You would need to check that out but I believe the difference is that, under FAA rules, both pilots can log the time hour building but, under JAA rules, only the handling pilot can claim the time. This assumes that the aircraft being used is a single crew aircraft – which all the usual PPL hire aircraft (152, 172, PA-28, etc, etc) are.
All your "Instructional Hours" as an FI should count as "In Command" no problems. Indeed, from my understanding, most airlines like Instructors. Lets face it, after 1000+ hours Instructing + all your training hours + any PPL P1 time, you will have significant experience over and above an Integrated student straight out the box. After all, they have not have had the pleasure of salvaging aircraft from the weird and wonderful situations students sometime place an aircraft in when trying to devise yet another, even more imaginative, way to kill you! Also, airlines in turn need Instructors so, to have a pool of people who have basic Instructional Technique experience, is also a plus when it comes to selecting future TRIs/TREs. I’ll not enter a “good instructor/poor instructor” debate here! Another topic that is all together.
If anyone else knows different please shout as this is just based on my experience. Personally, Instructing is where I’m heading back to! Clearly, I miss that “my life flashing before my eyes” experience which you don’t get Line flying – generally!!!! I must be mad but I can’t wait!!!!! Hope this helps.
Regards, H 'n' H
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If, as the FI, you are in command of the aircraft then all hours are valid and count towards your total time as PIC/P1 irrespective of global location.
The only time when you could technically be acting as an FI but not in command would be during your FI training and another instructor or examiner is actually PIC; you would log this as Dual.
HWB
The only time when you could technically be acting as an FI but not in command would be during your FI training and another instructor or examiner is actually PIC; you would log this as Dual.
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Well, there's flight time and there's flight time.
Whatever you chose to log is simply a matter of how you document you experience; the experience is what is really relevant. Now, legally, you logbook serves as a formal document you may use to prove experience towards, say, authorities or employers, yourself or whomever.
Flight time that is required for the issuance of certificates or ratings usually have strings attached. Ie for a JAR certificate or rating, JAA says that "dual" flight time may only be with a JAA instructor. On the same token, if you recieve instruction in an airplane that you are already qualified to fly (say instrument rating, you have PPL), FAA considers this to be PIC time for both the student and instructor, while JAA does not.
That does NOT imply that the aforementioned flight time may not PIC to a JAA OPERATOR. It is simply a matter of whose juristiction you are under, who defines the criteria?
The strings that are attached are simply a function of "who's asking". While the authorities usually have very well defined criteria for whay "may count", it seems like most airlines have not. In my experience, the airlines are looking for the experience behind the logbook, not the logbook itself. If you have worked for 2,000 hrs as a flight instructor, then that is what you've done; the cessna flies pretty much the same in FAA- and JAA-land.
An operator may very well say that "we want people with 1000 hours total time", "we want people with 1000 hours time based on a JAA certificte", "we want people with 1000 hours based on an ICAO certificate", "we want people with 1000 hours PIC, not including instruction recieved", "we want people with 1000 hours turbine time", "we want people with 1000 hours turbine time, excluding turboprop under 15tonnes", "we want people with 1000 hours multicrew experience", "we want people with 1000 hours multicrew experience on multipilot aeroplanes", "we want whatever". They are free to define their own criteria as long as you have your certifiacates and ratings.
You do your flying, you gain your experience, and you be sure to accurately and adequately document your experience objectively, and no one can hunt you down.
Whatever you chose to log is simply a matter of how you document you experience; the experience is what is really relevant. Now, legally, you logbook serves as a formal document you may use to prove experience towards, say, authorities or employers, yourself or whomever.
Flight time that is required for the issuance of certificates or ratings usually have strings attached. Ie for a JAR certificate or rating, JAA says that "dual" flight time may only be with a JAA instructor. On the same token, if you recieve instruction in an airplane that you are already qualified to fly (say instrument rating, you have PPL), FAA considers this to be PIC time for both the student and instructor, while JAA does not.
That does NOT imply that the aforementioned flight time may not PIC to a JAA OPERATOR. It is simply a matter of whose juristiction you are under, who defines the criteria?
The strings that are attached are simply a function of "who's asking". While the authorities usually have very well defined criteria for whay "may count", it seems like most airlines have not. In my experience, the airlines are looking for the experience behind the logbook, not the logbook itself. If you have worked for 2,000 hrs as a flight instructor, then that is what you've done; the cessna flies pretty much the same in FAA- and JAA-land.
An operator may very well say that "we want people with 1000 hours total time", "we want people with 1000 hours time based on a JAA certificte", "we want people with 1000 hours based on an ICAO certificate", "we want people with 1000 hours PIC, not including instruction recieved", "we want people with 1000 hours turbine time", "we want people with 1000 hours turbine time, excluding turboprop under 15tonnes", "we want people with 1000 hours multicrew experience", "we want people with 1000 hours multicrew experience on multipilot aeroplanes", "we want whatever". They are free to define their own criteria as long as you have your certifiacates and ratings.
You do your flying, you gain your experience, and you be sure to accurately and adequately document your experience objectively, and no one can hunt you down.
