Correct order of modular route
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Correct order of modular route
Hi,
I am a recent PPL about to start an ATPL distance learning course as part of an overall modular training route.
What I am trying to establish is the correct order that the CPL, ME, IR happen and the min requirements for each phase ie: can you start your CPL before you finish the ATPLs? Do you have to do the IR with the CPL or can you add this at a later stage? What are the time limits once you have your ATPLs complete before you must do the CPL and/or IR?
Interested to know how other mod students are currently doing it or did do it.
Thanks!
I am a recent PPL about to start an ATPL distance learning course as part of an overall modular training route.
What I am trying to establish is the correct order that the CPL, ME, IR happen and the min requirements for each phase ie: can you start your CPL before you finish the ATPLs? Do you have to do the IR with the CPL or can you add this at a later stage? What are the time limits once you have your ATPLs complete before you must do the CPL and/or IR?
Interested to know how other mod students are currently doing it or did do it.
Thanks!
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LASORS: LASORS 2008 | Publications | CAA has the answers. Might be useful for someone who knows more than me to spell it out in laymans terms though, especially regarding time limitations between exams etc. And then sticky it 
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Correct order
Hi mate.
I think that the best way of doing this course is by first completing the ATPL subjects. Once they are complete they are valid for 36 months. You cant start the CPL flight training until you have done the ATPL subjects unless you have the CPL subjects.
To start the CPL flight training you need to have 150 hours with these hours in certain areas ( lasors on CAA website will tell you)Night, x country, solo etc etc
I would definately do the CPL before the IR as it will give you some basic IR flying skills so as to prepare you abit for the IR. Not much but a little. I would then do the IR last. Your ATPL subjects are valid for 7 years provided you have completed an IR in respect og gaining an ATPL. I might be a little vague in some areas as did this about 6 years ago but this link will answer all your questions.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Sectio...%20LICENCE.pdf
The link above will give you all the relevant information you need to start the training etc and what is required in regards to hours and hour breakdown.
Hope this helps.
Good luck
I think that the best way of doing this course is by first completing the ATPL subjects. Once they are complete they are valid for 36 months. You cant start the CPL flight training until you have done the ATPL subjects unless you have the CPL subjects.
To start the CPL flight training you need to have 150 hours with these hours in certain areas ( lasors on CAA website will tell you)Night, x country, solo etc etc
I would definately do the CPL before the IR as it will give you some basic IR flying skills so as to prepare you abit for the IR. Not much but a little. I would then do the IR last. Your ATPL subjects are valid for 7 years provided you have completed an IR in respect og gaining an ATPL. I might be a little vague in some areas as did this about 6 years ago but this link will answer all your questions.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Sectio...%20LICENCE.pdf
The link above will give you all the relevant information you need to start the training etc and what is required in regards to hours and hour breakdown.
Hope this helps.
Good luck
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I did my IR first in a twin, then did the CPL in a single, I opted for the single purely for cost reasons.
There are some advantages to doing the IR first, for a start the CPL training hours requirement is reduced from 25 hours down to 15 hours which, if you're battling with the UK weather trying to fly VFR, can be a good thing. Bear in mind though that your IR will be 55 hours as oppose to 50 if you choose to do it before the CPL so you don't neccessarily make such a big cost saving.
Also, you can apply for a multi-engine IR with 50 hours solo cross-country time and 70 hours P1 (for the MEP rating application) - so you can start it before you have the 150 hours total which is required to begin the CPL, and use the flying hours on the course to 'bump up' to 150 total. Bear in mind however that none of the flying hours on your IR course will be P1 (except for your test if successful - P1S), and you will need 100 hours P1 to apply for the CPL, so doing the IR first is not a way of getting out of hour building.
The 'jump' back to VFR from IFR after doing the IR wasn't really a big deal, I managed fine, in fact it was quite nice being allowed to look out of the window again after spending hours behind the screens!
You end up with the same blue book in the end no matter which way you do it, different orders suit different people. I would research as much as possible and weigh things up carefully.
There are some advantages to doing the IR first, for a start the CPL training hours requirement is reduced from 25 hours down to 15 hours which, if you're battling with the UK weather trying to fly VFR, can be a good thing. Bear in mind though that your IR will be 55 hours as oppose to 50 if you choose to do it before the CPL so you don't neccessarily make such a big cost saving.
Also, you can apply for a multi-engine IR with 50 hours solo cross-country time and 70 hours P1 (for the MEP rating application) - so you can start it before you have the 150 hours total which is required to begin the CPL, and use the flying hours on the course to 'bump up' to 150 total. Bear in mind however that none of the flying hours on your IR course will be P1 (except for your test if successful - P1S), and you will need 100 hours P1 to apply for the CPL, so doing the IR first is not a way of getting out of hour building.
The 'jump' back to VFR from IFR after doing the IR wasn't really a big deal, I managed fine, in fact it was quite nice being allowed to look out of the window again after spending hours behind the screens!
You end up with the same blue book in the end no matter which way you do it, different orders suit different people. I would research as much as possible and weigh things up carefully.
Hi Meatbomb,
Hour-building
Night Qualification
CPL
MEP
IR
is the usual order and the order in which I did it.
The hour-building is the best bit of training you'll ever do. Enjoy it. You can do the Night Qualification at the same time.
To start the CPL you need 100 hours PiC as part of a minimum of 150 hours total time, plus a 300nm cross-country including two stops and a Night Qualification. You also need to have completed the CPL theory exams. As most people want an ATPL rather than be restricted in job prospects by having only a CPL and having to occupy the RHS for the rest of their career, in reality you need to have completed all 14 ATPL exams before you are allowed to start the CPL.
To start the MEP rating you only need 70 hours PiC, so you will easily qualify by the time you start it because of the CPL requirements.
To start the IR you simply need 50 hours cross-country time, so by the time you've done your hour-building and CPL you'll qualify.
You apply for the CPL/ME/IR licence issue once you've passed your IR Skills Test.
Looks like you have the other info you wanted from the previous posts.
Enjoy.
MH152
Hour-building
Night Qualification
CPL
MEP
IR
is the usual order and the order in which I did it.
The hour-building is the best bit of training you'll ever do. Enjoy it. You can do the Night Qualification at the same time.
To start the CPL you need 100 hours PiC as part of a minimum of 150 hours total time, plus a 300nm cross-country including two stops and a Night Qualification. You also need to have completed the CPL theory exams. As most people want an ATPL rather than be restricted in job prospects by having only a CPL and having to occupy the RHS for the rest of their career, in reality you need to have completed all 14 ATPL exams before you are allowed to start the CPL.
To start the MEP rating you only need 70 hours PiC, so you will easily qualify by the time you start it because of the CPL requirements.
To start the IR you simply need 50 hours cross-country time, so by the time you've done your hour-building and CPL you'll qualify.
You apply for the CPL/ME/IR licence issue once you've passed your IR Skills Test.
Looks like you have the other info you wanted from the previous posts.
Enjoy.
MH152
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the advantage with doing the cpl in the twin is....
you don't have to do.
PLF's
glide to lands
Twin its just a single engine to go around to circle to land which after the IR is bread and butter.
I do have a mate who did his PPL in FL who by doing the CPL in a twin has never ever done a PFL in his Puff. Did suggest he learned after the 777 at LHR but he is more interested in the car he drives and what his pension is looking like.
PS I went to the same school and I only learned about PFL's by flying with an old hand PPruner and on my FI course
you don't have to do.
PLF's
glide to lands
Twin its just a single engine to go around to circle to land which after the IR is bread and butter.
I do have a mate who did his PPL in FL who by doing the CPL in a twin has never ever done a PFL in his Puff. Did suggest he learned after the 777 at LHR but he is more interested in the car he drives and what his pension is looking like.
PS I went to the same school and I only learned about PFL's by flying with an old hand PPruner and on my FI course
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The way the majority of modular guys do it is:
PPL
(Night Qual. - normally first winter you can, I did mine during ATPL studies)
ATPL exams
Hours Building
CPL
ME
IR
However, I did my IR first and found it fine, possibly a steeper learning curve at the start, but the CPL was a breeze after.
PPL
(Night Qual. - normally first winter you can, I did mine during ATPL studies)
ATPL exams
Hours Building
CPL
ME
IR
However, I did my IR first and found it fine, possibly a steeper learning curve at the start, but the CPL was a breeze after.
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I did (currently am finishing)
PPL
Night Qual
Multi Engine
IR
Hrs building
CPL
ATPL (All licenses are FAA - so req's are different obviously)
All first time passes so far, getting to the end of the list
PPL
Night Qual
Multi Engine
IR
Hrs building
CPL
ATPL (All licenses are FAA - so req's are different obviously)
All first time passes so far, getting to the end of the list
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Hi guys/gals
Need some advice. Currently an ICAO PPL holder with 50hrs (without night qualification). Am considering doing an ATPL distance learning course and at the same time build up the hours. I've read through LASORS and somewhere it states that it is compulsory to attend x hrs of classroom time and that the Chief Ground Instructor of an FTO must endorsed your application before you can register and sit for the exams. I was wondering how strict is this rule being applied?
In other words, have anyone in the same circumstances like me with low hours, directly sat for the ATPL exams without going through the endorsement from a FTO?
I forgot to mention that i am from the Far East.
cheers
Need some advice. Currently an ICAO PPL holder with 50hrs (without night qualification). Am considering doing an ATPL distance learning course and at the same time build up the hours. I've read through LASORS and somewhere it states that it is compulsory to attend x hrs of classroom time and that the Chief Ground Instructor of an FTO must endorsed your application before you can register and sit for the exams. I was wondering how strict is this rule being applied?
In other words, have anyone in the same circumstances like me with low hours, directly sat for the ATPL exams without going through the endorsement from a FTO?
I forgot to mention that i am from the Far East.
cheers
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wannabe 15:
The CGI and the x hours classroom are talking aboutduring your ATPL studies and being entered into the exam, not the study. If your going to do distance learning the classroom time is covered in your 2 weeks consolidation before you sit the exam and the CGI will sign your exam application form to say you are okay to sit the exam.
tl:dr - You don't need an FTO to endorse you to start your ATPL theory.
The CGI and the x hours classroom are talking aboutduring your ATPL studies and being entered into the exam, not the study. If your going to do distance learning the classroom time is covered in your 2 weeks consolidation before you sit the exam and the CGI will sign your exam application form to say you are okay to sit the exam.
tl:dr - You don't need an FTO to endorse you to start your ATPL theory.
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Point of order...
No, you simply need to have done it before you apply for the license.... ie. Can be done after the skills test if circumstances dictate.
To start the CPL.... 300nm cross-country...
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Hi Meat bomb, hope you don't mind if i ask some questions related to your questions.
Once you got all the required licences, how long do they last for and at what cost do you need to revalidate them?
PPL is last for 5 years
CPL is last for 5 years
SEP is last for 2 years (is this the class rating that you can fly any piston aircraft of upto 5,700kg MTOW)
MEP is last for 1 year
MCC not too sure?
I/R is last for 1 year, not sure if it applies to SE or ME??
So what is total cost just to keep current?
thanks,
n.dave
Once you got all the required licences, how long do they last for and at what cost do you need to revalidate them?
PPL is last for 5 years
CPL is last for 5 years
SEP is last for 2 years (is this the class rating that you can fly any piston aircraft of upto 5,700kg MTOW)
MEP is last for 1 year
MCC not too sure?
I/R is last for 1 year, not sure if it applies to SE or ME??
So what is total cost just to keep current?
thanks,
n.dave
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CPL - The CPL is valid for 5 years and is renewed by sending off a valid class or type rating to the CAA.
MEP - The MEP rating is valid for 12 months and is renewed with a flight test with a registered examiner.
IR - The IR is valid for 12 months and is renewed with a flight test with a registered examiner. If you renewed your licence in the simulator one year you will need to renew in the aircraft the next year and visa versa.
Not sure of the others, if anyone can enlighten us, that would be great!
Thanks,
MB
MEP - The MEP rating is valid for 12 months and is renewed with a flight test with a registered examiner.
IR - The IR is valid for 12 months and is renewed with a flight test with a registered examiner. If you renewed your licence in the simulator one year you will need to renew in the aircraft the next year and visa versa.
Not sure of the others, if anyone can enlighten us, that would be great!
Thanks,
MB
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cpl in twin
Mad Jock, what a/c did you use for your multi-cpl? I have a JAR IR(Dutchess) and am thinking of doing the 15 hour multi-cpl in a Diamond twinstar in the UK.
thanx
gb
thanx
gb
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Dutchess and a Cougar GR7 springs to mind.
I would do it in what ever is the cheapest. But would say to stick with what you are used to. If I was to renew my SPA MEP IR I would go for some clapped out old duchess without a GPS fitted. These new machines are great don't get me wrong but you don't want to pay to have to learn how to fly them and to operate all the avionics.
My current steed is a steam instrument manual turbo prop with an old trimble GPS. Wanging it around on the standard 6 instruments with flip flop radios wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Stick in overlays and mucking about with an intergrated radio and LNAV stack would give me serious grief.
I would do it in what ever is the cheapest. But would say to stick with what you are used to. If I was to renew my SPA MEP IR I would go for some clapped out old duchess without a GPS fitted. These new machines are great don't get me wrong but you don't want to pay to have to learn how to fly them and to operate all the avionics.
My current steed is a steam instrument manual turbo prop with an old trimble GPS. Wanging it around on the standard 6 instruments with flip flop radios wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Stick in overlays and mucking about with an intergrated radio and LNAV stack would give me serious grief.
