Light at the end of the tunnel?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Preston
Age: 40
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Light at the end of the tunnel?
Hello, Im new to this website but have browsed through many conversations about the current situations.
Is now not the best time to train? Ok we have all established that every airline is inundated with applications from pilots who were with xl, futura etc.. but with decreasing class sizes at FTO's when the economy picks up (which it will) would airlines not be crying out for pilots with the lack that have not trained in this time of financial dire?
Im in the dark about all this so i may be completely of the mark, i suppose im just trying to answer the question that all potential wannabes, want to know.
The other reason is that i went down for the Cabair seminar which they really tried to emphasize this by saying the last time the country was in recession when things picked up major airlines were contacting them begging for pilots! In all honesty i thought they are just telling me this because its what i want to hear to invest my money into there school.
Anyone out there have any experience from the last recession?
If i start training in late 2009 i will be coming out of training 2011 when the economy should be on the way up? Or should i take off the tinted glasses and look at something im not seeing?
Thanks
Happy New Year
Is now not the best time to train? Ok we have all established that every airline is inundated with applications from pilots who were with xl, futura etc.. but with decreasing class sizes at FTO's when the economy picks up (which it will) would airlines not be crying out for pilots with the lack that have not trained in this time of financial dire?
Im in the dark about all this so i may be completely of the mark, i suppose im just trying to answer the question that all potential wannabes, want to know.
The other reason is that i went down for the Cabair seminar which they really tried to emphasize this by saying the last time the country was in recession when things picked up major airlines were contacting them begging for pilots! In all honesty i thought they are just telling me this because its what i want to hear to invest my money into there school.
Anyone out there have any experience from the last recession?
If i start training in late 2009 i will be coming out of training 2011 when the economy should be on the way up? Or should i take off the tinted glasses and look at something im not seeing?
Thanks
Happy New Year
Its fair to say the it wasn't until 1995 that things picked up and the pilot recruitment market could be thought to have recovered from the 1991 recession.
So there's no rush. You attended a sales pitch. Nothing more.
WWW
So there's no rush. You attended a sales pitch. Nothing more.
WWW
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere In The South China Sea
Posts: 960
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Typical marketing.
Nobody knows how long this recession will last, a good guess is 2 years, personally I don't think we've even bottomed out yet, meaning alot more operators will go to the wall.
Now look at it like this, when there is an upturn, even a small one, there will be a myriad of experienced pilots out there that need to be "sucked back up" into the system, so even when we come out the other end it could be another year or so before wannabes get a sniff.
Go integrated now at your peril.
D777
Nobody knows how long this recession will last, a good guess is 2 years, personally I don't think we've even bottomed out yet, meaning alot more operators will go to the wall.
Now look at it like this, when there is an upturn, even a small one, there will be a myriad of experienced pilots out there that need to be "sucked back up" into the system, so even when we come out the other end it could be another year or so before wannabes get a sniff.
Go integrated now at your peril.
D777
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Preston
Age: 40
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for your comments! As always WWW your very helpful! To be honest, the sensible thing to do is to take the assessment, see how i get on and if i pass and get offered a place i can wait, and see how things pan out.
Pointless waiting then taking the assessment and finding there is some reason why i cant fly.
I hope this post helps others out there too!
Pointless waiting then taking the assessment and finding there is some reason why i cant fly.
I hope this post helps others out there too!
If you're going to take an assessment make sure it's with GAPAN. They'll give you a good impartial report on your suitability to fly aircraft. Dates for this year are 26 February, 16 April, 11 June, 6 August, 8 October, 3 December and will cost you £175 (probably the best £175 you'll spend).Once you've got that done think about getting your C1 medical from the CAA (initial £317).
If I was you I'd stay away from any integrated scheme for at least 12 months. Let's put it this way, I wouldn't touch one with yours.
Wait until the summer season is over with, this time next year the industry will look so different. Good luck with whatever route you choose.
S88
Aptitude Testing
Initial JAR Class 1 (Professional Pilot) Medical Examination | Medical | Safety Regulation
If I was you I'd stay away from any integrated scheme for at least 12 months. Let's put it this way, I wouldn't touch one with yours.
Wait until the summer season is over with, this time next year the industry will look so different. Good luck with whatever route you choose.
S88
Aptitude Testing
Initial JAR Class 1 (Professional Pilot) Medical Examination | Medical | Safety Regulation
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Just a bit lower than the point where the falling angel meets the rising ape
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ho Yes.
I can vouch for the GAPAN tests. They're not pretty but they are validated, and it's the stuff (scaled down to a half day) that the RAF use to assess pilot suitability, and have been in one form or another for 60 years. ish. I thought they were bloody good fun, and truly impartial testing. You can't revise for them, and when you're doing them you have NO idea whether or not you're doing well. I found the debrief extremely useful too.
I think aptitude tests offered by the big schools are not entirely the crude marketing tool that some people allude to (after all, they have to make sure they can publish good pass stats), but I think there is some element of that. I don't see what use placing an excited teenager in a large jet sim would be, except to further excite said individual into parting with cash.
And as so rightly pointed out by student88, it all means nothing if the CAA say you ain't fit to fly. In fact, I went and did my class 1 before even thinking about anything else (wonky eyes
but not that wonky, apparently )
Cheers
JR
I think aptitude tests offered by the big schools are not entirely the crude marketing tool that some people allude to (after all, they have to make sure they can publish good pass stats), but I think there is some element of that. I don't see what use placing an excited teenager in a large jet sim would be, except to further excite said individual into parting with cash.
And as so rightly pointed out by student88, it all means nothing if the CAA say you ain't fit to fly. In fact, I went and did my class 1 before even thinking about anything else (wonky eyes
but not that wonky, apparently )Cheers
JR
Last edited by JohnRayner; 2nd Jan 2009 at 18:24. Reason: rubbish internal spell checker.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would say GAPAN first then Gatwick for the Medical.
GAPAN is only £175 and if the examiner says "Hmmm, ohhhh, haaa, hmmm" while scratching his head at your results, you're only £175 down.
If you go for the medical and fail you are £600 ish down. I really think you need to slow down though, there is no hurry right now, you could end up £90k down!
GAPAN is only £175 and if the examiner says "Hmmm, ohhhh, haaa, hmmm" while scratching his head at your results, you're only £175 down.
If you go for the medical and fail you are £600 ish down. I really think you need to slow down though, there is no hurry right now, you could end up £90k down!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Just a bit lower than the point where the falling angel meets the rising ape
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Point.
GAPAN is only £175 and if the examiner says "Hmmm, ohhhh, haaa, hmmm" while scratching his head at your results, you're only £175 down.
Having said that, imagine this. You do your test. The nice man says "well done, high probability of success in the aviation industry, off you go my lad/lass!"
Then you get to Gatwick, blue paper in hand, only to be told not to bother....
Personal choice of course, but after a similar setback regarding eyesight as an excitable teenager, I wanted to put that bunny to bed first.
there is no hurry right now
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: london
Age: 41
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the recession will slightly help the students. Living expenses will go down a bit and the FTOs will drop the prices to a minimum due to a huge decrease in demand.
Is really near impossible to get credit from banks for training, and those who already have the cash to pay a good percentage of them will be put off by the job market situation, so demand for training will be seriously affected. Many FTOs will go bust and the ones that wont will face tough competition and i expect a price war between them.
I`m starting training in 2 months, i`m doing it modular, giving myself 3 years to complete the training, and i can also work in the meantime. To avoid disappointment i don`t expect to get any kind of piloting job in the next 5 years (but if i do i`ll say i did better than i planned
)
Is really near impossible to get credit from banks for training, and those who already have the cash to pay a good percentage of them will be put off by the job market situation, so demand for training will be seriously affected. Many FTOs will go bust and the ones that wont will face tough competition and i expect a price war between them.
I`m starting training in 2 months, i`m doing it modular, giving myself 3 years to complete the training, and i can also work in the meantime. To avoid disappointment i don`t expect to get any kind of piloting job in the next 5 years (but if i do i`ll say i did better than i planned
)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: FL 350
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To avoid disappointment i don`t expect to get any kind of piloting job in the next 5 years (but if i do i`ll say i did better than i planned
)
)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: london
Age: 41
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When all your licenses are complete keep your current job and fly @ the weekends to build up those hours. Don't go and get yourself a instructor rating as imho it's a complete waste of time and money
I`m lucky i`m self employed so i can work whenever i want, and i have an associate who can keep the business going while i`m not there. That means i`ll have a job waiting for me whenever i want to take it. So, really, i have nothing to lose if i start training now. Well except £35k if i never get a job in commercial aviation.
Best of luck to everyone training, especially to those who have just finished training and are looking for a job.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Canada
Age: 46
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I very much doubt we'll see any recovery until the housing market levels off
... and that's not going to happen until the banks stop losing money
... which is not going to happen until the US housing market levels off
... which is not going to happen until the negative amortization mortgages have reset
... and they don't even start to reset until 2010-2011
... and that's not going to happen until the banks stop losing money
... which is not going to happen until the US housing market levels off
... which is not going to happen until the negative amortization mortgages have reset
... and they don't even start to reset until 2010-2011
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After i get the PPL i`m thinking to buy a share on a small a/c as it works out cheaper for hr building. And, once i`ve built up the necessary hrs, i can always sell my share.
Also, just find a good local school for all your training, do a deal with them for the courses and just drive there and back each day, no need for accomodation and extra living costs.
You got it well sussed mate, wish I was starting just now again, I know how I'd do it.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South London
Age: 41
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GAPAN is only £175 and if the examiner says "Hmmm, ohhhh, haaa, hmmm" while scratching his head at your results, you're only £175 down.
Not sure how valuable the tests are if you don't believe in the result.
Personally i'm fully in favour of the tests and thought it was a thoroughly worthwhile day, but I find it hard to believe many will give up a dream because they fail the tests. I know i would have found it very hard to give it all up if i had failied. One guy was almost in tears when he came out of the debrief having been told his score fell in the "Training Risk" category. He vowed to carry on regardless.
The medical on the other hand is an absolute show stopper so I’d always say get that one sorted first.
Good luck.
Last edited by James D; 3rd Jan 2009 at 23:19.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Just a bit lower than the point where the falling angel meets the rising ape
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eyes wide open...
into difficult financial positions
While no testing is perfect, a validated test is going to do a good job of giving a fair appraisal of aptitude to the majority who take it.
Having been told in the past I'd be no good for a given career (albeit via an old boy's network rather than validated testing!) I know how hard it is to let something go that you really want to do. But how much harder will it be coming to that realisation on short final with 200 people behind you?
