ATPL Theory exam 18 Month time limit
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ATPL Theory exam 18 Month time limit
Hello everyone,
I find myself in a horrific place and need a miracle or someones knowledge of the system!
I sat the last 6 ATPL theory exams on the week beginning 1st dec 08 and upon receiving my results discovered that I had failed Principles of Flight! All other exams previously passed.
I would be happy enough to just resit POF except the CAA have informed me that my 18 month time limit has expired and that I will have to re take all 14 exams!
Firstly I would like to ask if anybody out there has had to deal with this situation, and if so, how did they do it? I am so very upset and moving towards deep depression!
Secondly, Does anyone know how I could get myself some sort of extension from the CAA? I only need a month! I mean, its only one little exam that I need to resit and I know that I can pass it second time round, I feel so completely hard done by. Im told that an extension can be granted with a doctors note, but I dont have that option.
Please please any help will be so very appreciated.
I find myself in a horrific place and need a miracle or someones knowledge of the system!
I sat the last 6 ATPL theory exams on the week beginning 1st dec 08 and upon receiving my results discovered that I had failed Principles of Flight! All other exams previously passed.
I would be happy enough to just resit POF except the CAA have informed me that my 18 month time limit has expired and that I will have to re take all 14 exams!
Firstly I would like to ask if anybody out there has had to deal with this situation, and if so, how did they do it? I am so very upset and moving towards deep depression!
Secondly, Does anyone know how I could get myself some sort of extension from the CAA? I only need a month! I mean, its only one little exam that I need to resit and I know that I can pass it second time round, I feel so completely hard done by. Im told that an extension can be granted with a doctors note, but I dont have that option.
Please please any help will be so very appreciated.
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I hate to say it, but the words "18 months" and "time limit" spring to mind here, dboydan.
Much as I sympathise with your situation, and I truly do - *you* made it.
The comment on "deep depression" may help you get a note from the doctor, by the way - but only in the terms of being declined a flight crew medical certficate.
I don't really understand why the system does not allow you to count 18 months backwards from the date of passing the last exam (thereby having to repeat the first few that were already passed) - but it doesn't.
This industry is full of regulation that you have to abide with.
I've just written a very long e-mail to someone who has allowed their PPL skill test validity to expire - needs to fly "just one little flight test" again.
I met a girl this year who had passed all 14 ATPL exams AND done the CPL course and skill test - just never got round to applying for the licence. All expired - had to do all 14 exams and the flight test again.
Then the IR.
Bad start to your New Year, sorry.
Much as I sympathise with your situation, and I truly do - *you* made it.
The comment on "deep depression" may help you get a note from the doctor, by the way - but only in the terms of being declined a flight crew medical certficate.
I don't really understand why the system does not allow you to count 18 months backwards from the date of passing the last exam (thereby having to repeat the first few that were already passed) - but it doesn't.
This industry is full of regulation that you have to abide with.
I've just written a very long e-mail to someone who has allowed their PPL skill test validity to expire - needs to fly "just one little flight test" again.
I met a girl this year who had passed all 14 ATPL exams AND done the CPL course and skill test - just never got round to applying for the licence. All expired - had to do all 14 exams and the flight test again.
Then the IR.
Bad start to your New Year, sorry.
a lesson from the school of hard knocks? Unfortunately, rules is rules. They wouldn't give me an extension even though my wife had a miscarriage, my mother had a stroke and my father then died!
Don't you just love the system?
back to those books i'm afraid, but look on the bright side, it's not as if there's a job waiting for you out there at the minute.
Don't you just love the system?
back to those books i'm afraid, but look on the bright side, it's not as if there's a job waiting for you out there at the minute.
Last edited by helimutt; 28th Dec 2008 at 15:39.
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It is what happens when you cut it so fine.
Personally, I would have not taken the last 6, let the 18 months expire, do that last 6 to restart the clock and the knock off the previous 8 again. It would have saved a bit of money.
Did your FTO not give you any advice or did you expect to pass all 6?
The rules are daft, but then we all have the follow the same rules.
Personally, I would have not taken the last 6, let the 18 months expire, do that last 6 to restart the clock and the knock off the previous 8 again. It would have saved a bit of money.
Did your FTO not give you any advice or did you expect to pass all 6?
The rules are daft, but then we all have the follow the same rules.
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The most fascinating thing about your post Dboydan, is that running out of time appears to have come as a complete surprise to you.
1. Is that really the case?
2. Did you really not know about the 18 month rule?
3. Did you really not have any opportunities to plan ahead and get all of the exams passed within the time limit?
If your answers to my first two questions are yes, then you really should have done more research.
In addition to that your CGI has really let you down. You should have been made aware of the rules before starting your course. And as the months went by he should have been reminding you that the hole you were digging for yourself was getting over your head. Less than 1% or 2% of students ever get caught by the 18 month rule, and to have 6 exams left at your final sitting must be close to a world record.
If your answer to my third question is yes, then you almost certainly have good grounds to request an extension.
By that I mean that there must have been some extenuating circumstances such as a prolonged period of serious illness, the death of a very close relative, active military service, or similar event, which prevented you from taking the exams earlier. If any of these are true then you should write to the CAA, stating exactly what happened and why it stopped you from completing all of the exams in time. If your case is a good one then you will get an extension.
But if your answers to all of my questions are no, then you really must get organised before you start wasting your time and money taking any more exams.
You do not have to redo any of your classroom training, but you must retake all 14 exams. But do not take any of them until you are absolutely sure that you will pass them. By that I mean that you must work, work, work, until you are consitently getting 95% or more in practice exams. And make sure that your practice exams are realistic, both in terms of content and conditions.
Make a sensible plan such as taking the exams over 3 sittings spread over 9 months or so. That will leave another three sittings and 9 months to retake any that you fail.
The most important thing is to stop feeling sorry for yourself and sort out your act. Unless you are able to do this, you will never complete your training successfully.
It is probably the case that less than 0.1% of students get caught out twice by the 18 month rule. But it does happen. Do not be that 0.1%.
1. Is that really the case?
2. Did you really not know about the 18 month rule?
3. Did you really not have any opportunities to plan ahead and get all of the exams passed within the time limit?
If your answers to my first two questions are yes, then you really should have done more research.
In addition to that your CGI has really let you down. You should have been made aware of the rules before starting your course. And as the months went by he should have been reminding you that the hole you were digging for yourself was getting over your head. Less than 1% or 2% of students ever get caught by the 18 month rule, and to have 6 exams left at your final sitting must be close to a world record.
If your answer to my third question is yes, then you almost certainly have good grounds to request an extension.
By that I mean that there must have been some extenuating circumstances such as a prolonged period of serious illness, the death of a very close relative, active military service, or similar event, which prevented you from taking the exams earlier. If any of these are true then you should write to the CAA, stating exactly what happened and why it stopped you from completing all of the exams in time. If your case is a good one then you will get an extension.
But if your answers to all of my questions are no, then you really must get organised before you start wasting your time and money taking any more exams.
You do not have to redo any of your classroom training, but you must retake all 14 exams. But do not take any of them until you are absolutely sure that you will pass them. By that I mean that you must work, work, work, until you are consitently getting 95% or more in practice exams. And make sure that your practice exams are realistic, both in terms of content and conditions.
Make a sensible plan such as taking the exams over 3 sittings spread over 9 months or so. That will leave another three sittings and 9 months to retake any that you fail.
The most important thing is to stop feeling sorry for yourself and sort out your act. Unless you are able to do this, you will never complete your training successfully.
It is probably the case that less than 0.1% of students get caught out twice by the 18 month rule. But it does happen. Do not be that 0.1%.
Last edited by Keith.Williams.; 29th Dec 2008 at 09:47.
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I did know about the 18 month rule of course, but I was assured by certain higher powers at CTC, where I am currently training, that I would be finished in plenty of time in order to re-sit in the event of failures. As it got nearer and nearer to the deadline it became apparent that I was only going to be left with one chance to take the exams.
My training in New Zealand was delayed quite significantly and then I found myself getting all worked up and stressed because of the deadline, that then effected my flying which then made it take even longer. I eventully became very depressed and asked if I could be released to come home and take the exams, but was denied, mainly, it seemed on the basis that I shouldn't have any problems with the exams, an assumption that has now landed me in this horrible situation!
I have just today been to the doctor and managed to get a note stating that I have been under excess stress and depression over the last year during my training, adversely affecting my performance and ability to complete the exams in the allotted timeframe, so I am hoping that I can present that to the CAA and they will allow me one more sitting of the Principles of Fight exam.
Thank you all for your inputs, very much appreciated. If there is anything further anyone could add that they think may help my case, please please do let me know, I am becoming increasingly desperate now!
My training in New Zealand was delayed quite significantly and then I found myself getting all worked up and stressed because of the deadline, that then effected my flying which then made it take even longer. I eventully became very depressed and asked if I could be released to come home and take the exams, but was denied, mainly, it seemed on the basis that I shouldn't have any problems with the exams, an assumption that has now landed me in this horrible situation!
I have just today been to the doctor and managed to get a note stating that I have been under excess stress and depression over the last year during my training, adversely affecting my performance and ability to complete the exams in the allotted timeframe, so I am hoping that I can present that to the CAA and they will allow me one more sitting of the Principles of Fight exam.
Thank you all for your inputs, very much appreciated. If there is anything further anyone could add that they think may help my case, please please do let me know, I am becoming increasingly desperate now!
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I would be very surprised if they give you the extension, I would also take note of what Keygrip said:
The comment on "deep depression" may help you get a note from the doctor, by the way - but only in the terms of being declined a flight crew medical certficate.
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Hey JD, how did your CRM course go? 
If you're that unsympathetic to the situations of others, perhaps you should stay away from civilian aviation!!
DB, if you've got a doctor's note for depression though, you will have to disclose this to the Medical Department at Gatwick (assuming you're UK JAA) and this could mean loss of medical. However, before you go to your doctor, try talking to the CAA and explaining the situation that CTC had placed you in; maybe even CTC could put your case?
Cheers
Whirls
If you're that unsympathetic to the situations of others, perhaps you should stay away from civilian aviation!!DB, if you've got a doctor's note for depression though, you will have to disclose this to the Medical Department at Gatwick (assuming you're UK JAA) and this could mean loss of medical. However, before you go to your doctor, try talking to the CAA and explaining the situation that CTC had placed you in; maybe even CTC could put your case?
Cheers
Whirls
dboydan,
I can't offer you much advice other than ignore the useless and time wasting posts from people like JD. Clearly they're too busy worrying about themselves without a care for anybody else - full of their own self importance. Tough times are usually followed by great ones, keep at it and don't let it get you down. CTC wouldn't have taken you on if you didnt have any ability. You can do it.
I can't offer you much advice other than ignore the useless and time wasting posts from people like JD. Clearly they're too busy worrying about themselves without a care for anybody else - full of their own self importance. Tough times are usually followed by great ones, keep at it and don't let it get you down. CTC wouldn't have taken you on if you didnt have any ability. You can do it.
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You may be surprised to hear that the CAA are remarkably accommodating, provided you really do have a good case. But they are not interested in hearing "how unfair it all is", or how "you are only talking about one little exam".
I am aware of a case in which a student who had been ill for a prolonged period was given an extension. Unfortunaltely he then went on to fail four out of five exams in his final special extension sitting.
By all means write to the CAA and ask for an extension. But as I said in my earlier post, do not become that 0.1% who screws it up twice.
If you get an extension do not waste it.
I am aware of a case in which a student who had been ill for a prolonged period was given an extension. Unfortunaltely he then went on to fail four out of five exams in his final special extension sitting.
By all means write to the CAA and ask for an extension. But as I said in my earlier post, do not become that 0.1% who screws it up twice.
If you get an extension do not waste it.
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My training in New Zealand was delayed quite significantly
asked if I could be released to come home and take the exams, but was denied
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Rock and a hard place.
Like it or not, there is still a large stigma attached to mental illness. If at all possible I would refrain from stating depression etc as a reason as it may severely restrict you later in your career.
Of course if it is the case then that shouldn't stop you speaking about this situation with your doctor. Getting help may be more important than any possible impact on a potential career etc.
Of course if it is the case then that shouldn't stop you speaking about this situation with your doctor. Getting help may be more important than any possible impact on a potential career etc.
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A good CGI will sort it. You will need a good excuse though. I'll give you a 15% chance of success.
If you really want it, bang the lot out in 3 months. Nothing compared to what comes next.
If you really want it, bang the lot out in 3 months. Nothing compared to what comes next.
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I would be wary about playing the 'stress' card. I have no personal knowledge of the workings of the CAA, but if it was me considering your case, I would assume that you couldn't have been that incapicited by stress/depression if you were still able of fly?
However, it would certainly make me interested in looking into your current situation regarding your fitness to continue flying.
If you are lucky this may be the answer to get you out of your current situation, but I would be very wary of this creating far bigger problems for yourself in the future. As I see it, the more you push your stress/depression problem, the more you are jeorpardising your Class 1 and maybe creating yourself potential problems down the line?
As people have said, I think you need to talk to your school to get advice and then maybe be represented by them?
All the best.
However, it would certainly make me interested in looking into your current situation regarding your fitness to continue flying.
If you are lucky this may be the answer to get you out of your current situation, but I would be very wary of this creating far bigger problems for yourself in the future. As I see it, the more you push your stress/depression problem, the more you are jeorpardising your Class 1 and maybe creating yourself potential problems down the line?
As people have said, I think you need to talk to your school to get advice and then maybe be represented by them?
All the best.
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If you're that unsympathetic to the situations of others, perhaps you should stay away from civilian aviation!!
Solely on the basis of the info on this thread, I will fly with JD02FLY anywhere, anyday. OTOH, having a depressive slacker for team mate...
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You two obviously went on the same CRM course then?
If you believe you have no weaknesses and cannot empathise with other people, then you may well come down to earth with a bump!
I would rather fly with someone who doesn't believe they are perfect and infallible!
Just because one person can deal with a certain situation, doesn't mean everyone can deal with the same situation.
Cheers
Whirls
If you believe you have no weaknesses and cannot empathise with other people, then you may well come down to earth with a bump!
I would rather fly with someone who doesn't believe they are perfect and infallible!
Just because one person can deal with a certain situation, doesn't mean everyone can deal with the same situation.
Cheers
Whirls
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You two obviously went on the same CRM course then?
You screw up, you swallow your pride, try again and do it right next time.
but Whirly, when aviating, you need to be able to deal with things the way you're taught to do it, not rely on someone else to get you 'out the sh*t' when things go wrong.
It appears that a lack of forward planning and an unwillingness to stand up to a training provider has caused this problem.
7 P's anyone ????
A case of bite the bullet and do them again without being half way around the world when the deadline comes up. Training abroad isn't always cheaper.
Only reason i'm saying this is because I had to redo some exams. Oh, and I got no help when it came to do my IR theory exams, because of missing the deadline by less than a month. Again, a death in the family but hey, I still got there in the end.
It appears that a lack of forward planning and an unwillingness to stand up to a training provider has caused this problem.
7 P's anyone ????
A case of bite the bullet and do them again without being half way around the world when the deadline comes up. Training abroad isn't always cheaper.
Only reason i'm saying this is because I had to redo some exams. Oh, and I got no help when it came to do my IR theory exams, because of missing the deadline by less than a month. Again, a death in the family but hey, I still got there in the end.
Love the way these forums give people the ticket they need to write to others like crap! I doubt half of what is written here would be said if it was a face to face discussion.