FAA to JAA (Merged)
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Eternal FAA to JAA (Merged)
Hey everybody,
Has anybody converted an FAA IR to a JAA IR?
I've got an FAA Single Engine IR and I'm gonna convert it to a JAA Multi IR (and before anybody says anything about the FAA IR not been a real IR I can ensure you that it's not as easy as some people make out
).
Just wondering if they're are any major differencies between the FAA and JAA IR, and how many hours it took you to do it if you have?
Has anybody converted an FAA IR to a JAA IR?
I've got an FAA Single Engine IR and I'm gonna convert it to a JAA Multi IR (and before anybody says anything about the FAA IR not been a real IR I can ensure you that it's not as easy as some people make out
).Just wondering if they're are any major differencies between the FAA and JAA IR, and how many hours it took you to do it if you have?
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it's not as easy as some people make out
I'm not sure your in a position to judge that - since you haven't seen the standard of a UK IR.
JAA is much more procedual and by the books. RT has to be at a standard considerably higher than in the states.
Most places sell the courses as 10 hours sim, 10 hours aircraft. Although everyone I knew converting (unless you are well above average) went over this, as primacy (principle of what learnt first, sticks) can be really hard to beat. Believe it or not some spent more than the traditional IR due to doing a lot of hours in the aircraft which is big money in the UK.
However, if you go in willing to adapt and learn and accept that's a different kettle of fish rather than resisting it - it should be OK. (Most say they will, but then gripe and moan all the time). Good Luck!
Several of my friends converted with minimum time. Depends on ability, attitude and being in current practice I suppose. I'm sure those who took even more hours than it would normaly without having an FAA IR would have taken tons more than that had they started from scratch!
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Thanks for the advice fellas.
Your right about the primacy thing I reckon and like you say I can imagine there are alot of people who've done the FAA IR who might gripe about the differences.
Having done both the FAA CPL and JAA CPL I think I've got a good idea of what the different styles will be. Like you say JAA is much more procedural with FAA focusing more an actual flying skill than procedure.
They're different but about the same in difficulty.
Your right about the primacy thing I reckon and like you say I can imagine there are alot of people who've done the FAA IR who might gripe about the differences.
Having done both the FAA CPL and JAA CPL I think I've got a good idea of what the different styles will be. Like you say JAA is much more procedural with FAA focusing more an actual flying skill than procedure.
They're different but about the same in difficulty.
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FAA to JAA (Merged)
I try to get an Citation 2 with TRE for an ATPL skill test in the UK. But without success, Flight Safety and Executivaviation/Peter Turner are not able to help me.
I need the check flight for the conversion of my FAA ATP into a JAA/CAA one.
Everything is done, just the check flight missing? Anyone an idea where or how to conduct it? Thanks for any reply, Jens
I need the check flight for the conversion of my FAA ATP into a JAA/CAA one.
Everything is done, just the check flight missing? Anyone an idea where or how to conduct it? Thanks for any reply, Jens
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FAA IR to JAA ME/IR convertion sucks!!
Hi everybody who is about to do a IR conversion in England..
I did my IR in Florida and I must say flying in England is not the same! The airspace is different, communication is different and tolerances are tighter.
And it is unbelievable expensive..
So this is how it has gone for me so far: I have now done 15 hours in sim and 15 hours in airplane. That was enough for getting me to my 170A and then test with the so amazing strict and expensive CAA. I got a partial pass on my first attempt, which I flew nearly perfect but didnt trim out the aircraft as the examinator thought I should and didnt fill out my plog appropiately. That test cost me with aircraft rental 1200 Pounds. So now I had to do my partial on the enroute section. Silly me failed it!! That cost me 800 Pounds.. Now this week I am starting all over again with a new exam - so 1200 Pounds. And I had to do a flight in between - cost 550 Pounds.
Now I know it isnt and it shouldnt be easy to pass these exams and we all know IR - exams are probably the hardest. But when you honest to god fly everything spot on (departure, tracking, communication, holds, approaches, general handling, engine failures, asymmetric flying etc) and then dont cut you some slag when it comes to trimming and filling the plog... Frustrates me!!
Just to let you know..
I did my IR in Florida and I must say flying in England is not the same! The airspace is different, communication is different and tolerances are tighter.
And it is unbelievable expensive..
So this is how it has gone for me so far: I have now done 15 hours in sim and 15 hours in airplane. That was enough for getting me to my 170A and then test with the so amazing strict and expensive CAA. I got a partial pass on my first attempt, which I flew nearly perfect but didnt trim out the aircraft as the examinator thought I should and didnt fill out my plog appropiately. That test cost me with aircraft rental 1200 Pounds. So now I had to do my partial on the enroute section. Silly me failed it!! That cost me 800 Pounds.. Now this week I am starting all over again with a new exam - so 1200 Pounds. And I had to do a flight in between - cost 550 Pounds.
Now I know it isnt and it shouldnt be easy to pass these exams and we all know IR - exams are probably the hardest. But when you honest to god fly everything spot on (departure, tracking, communication, holds, approaches, general handling, engine failures, asymmetric flying etc) and then dont cut you some slag when it comes to trimming and filling the plog... Frustrates me!!
Just to let you know..
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Sounds painfully expensive ... Having recently finished the IR, I do feel for you, but that's also one of the reasons why I did the JAA IR syllabus in the first place.
I sympathise because it seems to be very easy to fail the IR skills test for doing something minor. And it could well be something that commercial or, indeed, private pilots might regularly get away with, yet an IR Examiner is obliged to fail you. 
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Sounds like a typical conversion to me.
I wouldn't say your different from any other FAA conversion - despite what I tell students some seem to still go down this route - and then regrettably I say - "I told you so"
I wouldn't say your different from any other FAA conversion - despite what I tell students some seem to still go down this route - and then regrettably I say - "I told you so"
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Having done the route myself, and know many guys and gals that have also completed this route in under 20 hrs I am baffled as to how this topic keeps coming up.
But there are two things to consider:
1. Do you have any experience of UK airspace prior to starting the IR conversion. If not, go get some. You need practice wearing a high viz vest for starters.
2. Are you trying to do this in difficult airspace. Exeter has only a few limited routes that can be used, so you are most likely to have flown all the routes prior to test (except Cardiff which doesn't allow trainign flights as the controllers cannot deal with more than 1 flight per 5 mins!)
Also, I always here of comparisons but only really consider the following:
How much did it all cost? FAA IR is 40 hrs at US aircraft prices, granting a 40 reduction from the JAA IR. If you then budget 15 hrs in the multi aircraft in the UK, you will still come up way less than the full 55 hr course in an aircraft in the UK.
Compare apples with apples etc. Maybe consider Spain as an alternative too. Much cheaper there. As we all know these days, standards are not the CAA's objective. Its taking your money thats important to them.
Also, if the 170 was signed, how is it the fault of the FAA IR system, when you fail a checkride?
Simple - It isn't!
But there are two things to consider:
1. Do you have any experience of UK airspace prior to starting the IR conversion. If not, go get some. You need practice wearing a high viz vest for starters.
2. Are you trying to do this in difficult airspace. Exeter has only a few limited routes that can be used, so you are most likely to have flown all the routes prior to test (except Cardiff which doesn't allow trainign flights as the controllers cannot deal with more than 1 flight per 5 mins!)
Also, I always here of comparisons but only really consider the following:
How much did it all cost? FAA IR is 40 hrs at US aircraft prices, granting a 40 reduction from the JAA IR. If you then budget 15 hrs in the multi aircraft in the UK, you will still come up way less than the full 55 hr course in an aircraft in the UK.
Compare apples with apples etc. Maybe consider Spain as an alternative too. Much cheaper there. As we all know these days, standards are not the CAA's objective. Its taking your money thats important to them.
Also, if the 170 was signed, how is it the fault of the FAA IR system, when you fail a checkride?
Simple - It isn't!
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conversion costs still pay off in the big picture
I do exactly the same thing, getting FAA CPL ME IR and will convert to a JAA license.
The thing is, flying over here in the states is so unbelieveably CHEAP, the expensive conversion costs arising in Europe are totally worth it in the end.
A recent example...: A Cessna 150 rents at 65 USD per hour here in the Midwest, which INCLUDES FUEL!!!
A twin (e.g. Piper Apache or Diamond Twin Star) is approx. 250 US Dollars an hr...also including fuel. That's like 170 pounds!
---
In the end, say what you want to say, I pay about half the price going the FAA to JAA conversion route than doing it all JAA...! So the "expensive" conversion totally pays off.
The thing is, flying over here in the states is so unbelieveably CHEAP, the expensive conversion costs arising in Europe are totally worth it in the end.
A recent example...: A Cessna 150 rents at 65 USD per hour here in the Midwest, which INCLUDES FUEL!!!
A twin (e.g. Piper Apache or Diamond Twin Star) is approx. 250 US Dollars an hr...also including fuel. That's like 170 pounds!
---
In the end, say what you want to say, I pay about half the price going the FAA to JAA conversion route than doing it all JAA...! So the "expensive" conversion totally pays off.
Upto The Buffers
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You only need to do the 50 odd hrs if you don't already have an ICAO IR. It's a minimum of 15hrs for the conversion, although that's not always a realistic figure.
Sounds a little unfortunate to me. Most examiners that I'm aware of aren't looking for perfection, simply a competent, safe flight.
Sounds a little unfortunate to me. Most examiners that I'm aware of aren't looking for perfection, simply a competent, safe flight.
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Hey again
Thanks for all the replies.. Nice ti know I am not alone..
And to I'll Be Realistic : I never said that it was the fault of getting a FAA IR. Its just very different!!
Just get used to NDB's for example..
Thanks for all the replies.. Nice ti know I am not alone..
And to I'll Be Realistic : I never said that it was the fault of getting a FAA IR. Its just very different!!
Just get used to NDB's for example..
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theory
Before conversion the theory is required, isn't it?
Is it ok if the theoretical part is done with a dinstance learning ATPL?
The lasors say "650 hours full time course" but it sounds strange, because some jaa schools in usa follow the faa/jaa conversion through distance learning atpl.
So: is it enough the dinstance learning ATPL?
Thanks
Is it ok if the theoretical part is done with a dinstance learning ATPL?
The lasors say "650 hours full time course" but it sounds strange, because some jaa schools in usa follow the faa/jaa conversion through distance learning atpl.
So: is it enough the dinstance learning ATPL?
Thanks
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Hey G-Spot,
thank you for the reply, but unfortunately I dont get any connection via the phone number. Seems number is not valid anymore. Do you have other contact details?
Thank you very much, cheers Jens
thank you for the reply, but unfortunately I dont get any connection via the phone number. Seems number is not valid anymore. Do you have other contact details?
Thank you very much, cheers Jens
