Top UK FTO says "BA do not accept modular pilots, EVER"
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 38
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From: UK
OATS made this point and I double checked with BA. It currently does not take Modular Students straight out of flight school. i.e as their first job unless they have followed an Intergrated Course.
But after qualification and getting you first job, who cares where you did your training. Even if they did - like any business would, airlines would be flexible to meet demand if needed.
But after qualification and getting you first job, who cares where you did your training. Even if they did - like any business would, airlines would be flexible to meet demand if needed.
Supercharged PPRuNer
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,188
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From: Doon the watter, a million miles from the sandpit.
Marketing drivel, pure and simple.
BA are pretty unlikely to be recruiting any low hours pilots in the next year or so, so the point is rather academic. What OATS won't have told you is that an awful lot more of their students have gone to Flybe and Ryanair than BA in recent times, and both of those airlines are happy to take candidates from modular backgrounds.
As already stated, BA only make the distinction for low-hours candidates - once you have 500hrs multi-crew time (their normal minimum requirement for direct entry pilots) where and how you got your licence is pretty much irrelevent.
This is not a clever time to be throwing £70k at an integrated course, and the schools know it - expect their marketing claims to get ever wilder and more desperate.
BA are pretty unlikely to be recruiting any low hours pilots in the next year or so, so the point is rather academic. What OATS won't have told you is that an awful lot more of their students have gone to Flybe and Ryanair than BA in recent times, and both of those airlines are happy to take candidates from modular backgrounds.
As already stated, BA only make the distinction for low-hours candidates - once you have 500hrs multi-crew time (their normal minimum requirement for direct entry pilots) where and how you got your licence is pretty much irrelevent.
This is not a clever time to be throwing £70k at an integrated course, and the schools know it - expect their marketing claims to get ever wilder and more desperate.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 147
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From: Somewhere
What OATS won't have told you is that an awful lot more of their students have gone to Flybe and Ryanair than BA in recent times, and both of those airlines are happy to take candidates from modular backgrounds.
OAA's claim isn't entirely untrue, as I imagine the people making enquiries with them don't have licences or >500 hours jet time (although before they stopped recruiting, I'm pretty certain you'd need way more experience before being successful), therefore, the claim that BA will only take integrated candidates is correct in this circumstance.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 272
Likes: 88
From: UK
Ham Phisted: How much did the bond with flybe cost!?
Theres nothing wrong with what youve done. But thats the reason flybe is introducing the MPL so all the new fresh faced FOs wont defect to BA at the earliest opportunity!
A story someone told me recently: An airline employed a load of cadets from one of the main uk FTOs back in 2004-2005. The majority of them then
off to BA after they got their hours. Said airline had paid for their training, TR-base-line etc. Once they saw this happen they never again recruited anyone from that FTO since 2005. Lesson to be learned...
Theres nothing wrong with what youve done. But thats the reason flybe is introducing the MPL so all the new fresh faced FOs wont defect to BA at the earliest opportunity!
A story someone told me recently: An airline employed a load of cadets from one of the main uk FTOs back in 2004-2005. The majority of them then
off to BA after they got their hours. Said airline had paid for their training, TR-base-line etc. Once they saw this happen they never again recruited anyone from that FTO since 2005. Lesson to be learned...
Last edited by Aerospace101; 7th October 2008 at 19:15.
Supercharged PPRuNer
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Doon the watter, a million miles from the sandpit.
mini-jumbo
From Oxford Aviation's website, employment statistics page - graduates who have joined airlines in 2008: Flybe: 21, Ryanair: 67 (total: 88), British Airways: 25. Figures correct as of 5 minutes ago.
So exactly what part of:
is 'bollocks'?
From Oxford Aviation's website, employment statistics page - graduates who have joined airlines in 2008: Flybe: 21, Ryanair: 67 (total: 88), British Airways: 25. Figures correct as of 5 minutes ago.
So exactly what part of:
an awful lot more of their students have gone to Flybe and Ryanair than BA in recent times
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 147
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From: Somewhere
G-SXTY,
To clarify, the part that was bollocks (which you have kindly proved) was the part where you suggested the FTO was hidding the facts.
As you stated, it's clearly on their website, it also on their forums and displayed on notice boards and on screens right above the customer services desk.
To clarify, the part that was bollocks (which you have kindly proved) was the part where you suggested the FTO was hidding the facts.
What OATS won't have told you...
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 92
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From: Socialist Republic of Europe
On the flip side there are companies that would be reluctant to recruit people who did not study a modular course, and would not even consider anyone straight out of an integrated course. Integrated courses are not intended to produce rounded pilots. They train airline FOs. There are many interesting flying jobs out there for which that is not appropriate.
Overall those companies probably hire more low-hour pilots than BA, at least for the foreseeable future!
Incidentally I knew people who were interviewed by BA at the end of their modular course, so at times they have at times had no firm policy against such recruitment. Who knows what will happen when they next start to recruit low-hour pilots?
Overall those companies probably hire more low-hour pilots than BA, at least for the foreseeable future!
Incidentally I knew people who were interviewed by BA at the end of their modular course, so at times they have at times had no firm policy against such recruitment. Who knows what will happen when they next start to recruit low-hour pilots?
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 272
Likes: 88
From: UK
Whats to say they ever come back to low hour recruitment. Virgin Atlantic sponsored about 6 cadets 10 years ago, then never touched any low hour grads. Why? Because its cheaper to take DEPs from feeder airlines. Guessing theres gona be ample number of flybe, easyjet & ryanair cadets happy to hop over to BA over the coming years... They'll just become feeder airlines to BA. With the ever increasing eroding of T&Cs in this line of work we'll soon have the way its done in the USA. FTO > Instruct > Regional > Airline Pilot.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 232
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From: g1000ville
Couldn't agree with you more sir. A good friend of mine has just this week done exactly that (flybe to BA). For what it's worth I think the USA system as you descibe above is pretty good. OK it takes while but I like the career progression.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 359
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From: Guildford
I'll second what Sqwkvfr said. There is next to no instructional training of US citizens around Phoenix - possibly because unless/until you make it to the promised land of the nationals, there is next to no money being made.
One of our instructors recounted how he'd gone back to instructing from the regionals, because he couldn't live on the $20000 salary (!)
Therefore I don't think that EASA/JAA land will go this route, but it is an interesting question. This downturn changes all the rules and who's to say the old rule book will ever come back.
However, on the original topic, I suspect their may be some element of "wrong end of stick". I don't think ANY self respecting FTO (and for whatever mud people choose to fling at it, Oxford is that, at least) would knowingly state something that is so easily proven incorrect. I suspect the statement would have been around "BA will not take any [low hours] modular students, so if you want a shot at them as your first job, you need to go integrated"
One of our instructors recounted how he'd gone back to instructing from the regionals, because he couldn't live on the $20000 salary (!)
Therefore I don't think that EASA/JAA land will go this route, but it is an interesting question. This downturn changes all the rules and who's to say the old rule book will ever come back.
However, on the original topic, I suspect their may be some element of "wrong end of stick". I don't think ANY self respecting FTO (and for whatever mud people choose to fling at it, Oxford is that, at least) would knowingly state something that is so easily proven incorrect. I suspect the statement would have been around "BA will not take any [low hours] modular students, so if you want a shot at them as your first job, you need to go integrated"
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,270
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From: Cloud Cookoo Land
As guessed, the FTO is Oxford - mainly because CTC, Cabair and FTE don't band about this statement as often as their associates in Kidlington. This BA 'non-modular' remark has been top of their marketing agenda for years. Although never placed in black and white by Oxford, they are only too happy to tell you when you liaise with their marketing guros. Why?? It's not entirely Oxford's doing, it's the amount of 'Tim nice but Dims' out there who have an unhealthy association with BA being the only job for them. They have no real interest in flying, they found out that they were good at spacial awareness exercises at private school. Becoming a Doctor or a Lawyer would take too much time, so Mummy and Daddy would sacrifice 70K 'pocket money' because young Nigel would look dashing in a neatly pressed uniform and pilot's cap. Better go out and purchase the obligitory Breitling now and throw a deposit down for the Volvo Estate and 'BA P1LOT' Reg while we are at it. Who said the 'romance' of being an airline pilot was dead?
P.S. Don't take the above statement too seriously, it's Friday night, I've had a few scoops and I'm not flying tomorrow!
P.S. Don't take the above statement too seriously, it's Friday night, I've had a few scoops and I'm not flying tomorrow!
Joined: Oct 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 77
Likes: 14
From: Scotland
As guessed, the FTO is Oxford - mainly because CTC, Cabair and FTE don't band about this statement as often as their associates in Kidlington. This BA 'non-modular' remark has been top of their marketing agenda for years. Although never placed in black and white by Oxford, they are only too happy to tell you when you liaise with their marketing guros. Why?? It's not entirely Oxford's doing, it's the amount of 'Tim nice but Dims' out there who have an unhealthy association with BA being the only job for them. They have no real interest in flying, they found out that they were good at spacial awareness exercises at private school. Becoming a Doctor or a Lawyer would take too much time, so Mummy and Daddy would sacrifice 70K 'pocket money' because young Nigel would look dashing in a neatly pressed uniform and pilot's cap. Better go out and purchase the obligitory Breitling now and throw a deposit down for the Volvo Estate and 'BA P1LOT' Reg while we are at it. Who said the 'romance' of being an airline pilot was dead?
classic mate, Im sure it wont be taken too seriously
classic mate, Im sure it wont be taken too seriously
