CATS - Cranfield Aviation Training School
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Since you asked... I'm not interested in flying for a living
The nonsense on my profile is simply fodder to wind up those who go sniffing for ammunition. As you have demonstrated, it's quite effective.
Back to the thread topic. As ever you will always get varying opinions on anything - people with good experiences, people with bad experiences. All I'll say further is do plenty of research, and whichever school you go to, talk to current and former students first - regardless of whether it is CATS, Cabair, Bristol, London Met, or any of the others. DO NOT rely solely on an internet forum where you do not know who you are actually communicating with, and if they have a particular agenda. For example, they could actually be the HOT or one of his/her buddies for said establishment...
The ATPL theory's provide the base work for your future career - you need to do plenty of work before, during, and even after these exams. Give yourself the best possible chance by making sure you choose a good school which will also invest time and effort it you - not one where you have to invest significant time in chasing people, sitting around during cancelled lectures, etc. This time is very precious to you and should be used to 100% efficiency. Good luck!
DW.
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Hello.
This is my first post on PPRUNE but I have being a long time fan of reading through the mass of Information available and well done to all involved.
I feel it my duty to post on the above.
As a CATS victum myself I really do not have any Possitive feed back to give you with the exception of Mike, The problem is that Mike only teaches 2 of the 14 subjects and this is where your problems will star to unfold.
I find it hard to believe that the CAA have not being involved with this problem. "That might have to change"
I too have had a unqualified Teacher/student try to teach on subjects that he really did not understand. (Frequent Mistakes) Not exceptable.
I wish I could get out but I am past the point of no return as I would loose the money that I have spent to date.
If things do not improve I may have to cut my losses and Re start at a more reputable training provider.
Not a great start to a Professional career is it!
Rgds T.s
T.s
This is my first post on PPRUNE but I have being a long time fan of reading through the mass of Information available and well done to all involved.
I feel it my duty to post on the above.
As a CATS victum myself I really do not have any Possitive feed back to give you with the exception of Mike, The problem is that Mike only teaches 2 of the 14 subjects and this is where your problems will star to unfold.
I find it hard to believe that the CAA have not being involved with this problem. "That might have to change"
I too have had a unqualified Teacher/student try to teach on subjects that he really did not understand. (Frequent Mistakes) Not exceptable.
I wish I could get out but I am past the point of no return as I would loose the money that I have spent to date.
If things do not improve I may have to cut my losses and Re start at a more reputable training provider.
Not a great start to a Professional career is it!
Rgds T.s
T.s
Upto The Buffers
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Leeds/Bradford
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that wouldn't be anything to do with the fact you are colour blind and therefore have a restricted medical would it?
Perhaps you'd like to enlighten me as to which airlines are hiring direct entry captains with fATPLs and 250hrs TT?
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I find it strange that "dog.101", "I like pies" and "Tanspotter" have registered new profiles in order to post about CATS (their join date is the same day they posted) . This means that either they did not want to post using their usual user names (why not?), or they are one in the same person?
Last edited by Dane-Ger; 28th Sep 2008 at 15:41.
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A bit of a conspirecy theroy there dan ger
Actualy there is a good chance that I met with one of the people you mentioned above but I could not be sure of that.
Like is said first time post long time reader of PPRUnE!
Think what you like after that but my post was for people that are about to sign up to cats and might want to know the low down before the part with any cash.
But know them or not I agree 100% with what they said.
I admit dog.101 may have over done it a little but I see most of what he said as being correct.
Just my 2 cents
Actualy there is a good chance that I met with one of the people you mentioned above but I could not be sure of that.
Like is said first time post long time reader of PPRUnE!
Think what you like after that but my post was for people that are about to sign up to cats and might want to know the low down before the part with any cash.
But know them or not I agree 100% with what they said.
I admit dog.101 may have over done it a little but I see most of what he said as being correct.
Just my 2 cents
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Can anyone recommend a good school to do my ATPL?
I am quite dissapointed about CATS as I really thought it is a good school.
Anyhow, any suggestions would really be appreciated.
I am quite dissapointed about CATS as I really thought it is a good school.
Anyhow, any suggestions would really be appreciated.
Upto The Buffers
Join Date: Apr 2006
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It all depends on you. If you're a motivated individual, with the discipline to knuckle down and get on with it, CATS are just fine. Don't EVER expect to have groundschool save the day if you haven't put the work in. Read the books, do the progress tests, hammer the question banks. You'll soon know yourself if you're ready for the exams. The groundschool is simply chance to ask questions, clear up any concepts on which you're unsure, and get exam forms signed. I passed my exams with no problems whatsoever with CATS. If you need your hand holding from start to finish and can't force yourself to do the work (plenty of 'em on here), then pay twice the price and go elsewhere.
Bristol have an excellent reputation, but they are a lot more expensive.
Some of the stuff on here is true, some of it is wildly exaggerated. If you've got a brain in your head and want access to the exams (ie. signed forms) with the bear minimum of obligation in terms of sitting in a classroom, CATS works. If you place value on things such as plush classrooms and whether the coffee machine is maintaining an exact coffee/milk ratio of 12:1 go elsewhere.
A standard day at CATS involves knocking out a test paper first thing, then going through the answers and expanding on questions which people are having issues with. Little things... like how to do QNH/QFF questions, handy formulas etc... Turn up not knowing how to deal with lambert charts, and what the difference between a great circle and a rhumb line is and you're your own worst enemy.
Bristol have an excellent reputation, but they are a lot more expensive.
Some of the stuff on here is true, some of it is wildly exaggerated. If you've got a brain in your head and want access to the exams (ie. signed forms) with the bear minimum of obligation in terms of sitting in a classroom, CATS works. If you place value on things such as plush classrooms and whether the coffee machine is maintaining an exact coffee/milk ratio of 12:1 go elsewhere.
A standard day at CATS involves knocking out a test paper first thing, then going through the answers and expanding on questions which people are having issues with. Little things... like how to do QNH/QFF questions, handy formulas etc... Turn up not knowing how to deal with lambert charts, and what the difference between a great circle and a rhumb line is and you're your own worst enemy.
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Hi Tiger 2411 I cant say for sure but most people I meet who used Bristol were very happy with the service they got,
The only thing is they only do distance learning but they say that on the 2 week brush up before your exams they really explain things to you, Which is what you want on a brush up, The last thing you need is question papers flying at you all day as you can do this when you are at home.
I have told it as i find it in cats, With no exaggerations!
Your best bet would be to talk to people face to face or If possible call out there some day "unannounced" and have a chat to one of the
in-house students.
The only thing is they only do distance learning but they say that on the 2 week brush up before your exams they really explain things to you, Which is what you want on a brush up, The last thing you need is question papers flying at you all day as you can do this when you are at home.
I have told it as i find it in cats, With no exaggerations!
Your best bet would be to talk to people face to face or If possible call out there some day "unannounced" and have a chat to one of the
in-house students.
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Actually, Captain Unpronouncable,
Perhaps you'd like to enlighten me as to which airlines are hiring direct entry captains with fATPLs and 250hrs TT?
Shooting from the hip and making stupid assumptions based on my posting history is a very poor show.
It all depends on you. If you're a motivated individual, with the discipline to knuckle down and get on with it, CATS are just fine.
Your single minded promotion of CATS despite what a number of people say makes me wonder if you also are in someway connected to the establishment.
I shall re-iterate what I said earlier: make the time to visit all of the ground school providers, speak to students - current, past and present, and DO NOT rely on anonymous forums where people will push their own agendas.
Shunter, I have nothing more to say to you. I have nothing to prove to you (I can't get out much more as you suggest - I'm doing 2/3/4 sector days, and often with min rest, so the few occasions I have at home, I like to stay in!) Keep going with your little feud if you like, but I will not be responding. You are very ready to call people names, and seem a little hot-headed - not a good attribute on the Flight Deck/ But at least we don't need to worry about that as we know you would not earn enough to pay your mortgage, even though you have now have a full Class 1.
Back to the thread, and the discussion about the quality, or not, of CATS...
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Tiger2411 ,drop me a line if you go to CATS ,and let me know your opinion.I was thinking about starting the ATPL distance with them but I'm thinking twice now.Unfortunately ,it's difficult for me to pay them a visit as I'm in Spain.
regards
regards
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Words from a real student on residential ATPL course now..
Tiger2411,
I have been on the residential course(ATPL) and honestly do not share the negative views of the school. I have so far successfully passed all my exams to date 1st time, with an 88% average.
I believe the reason for this is because personally I find the environment professional and friendly , I wasn't pressured to take exams before I was ready. Also unlike other school CATS residential classes are small which means students get more individual attention from Lectures, which gave me greater confidence in my first set of exams!!!
In my own experience currently on the residential course I would recommend the school for ATPL.
I have been on the residential course(ATPL) and honestly do not share the negative views of the school. I have so far successfully passed all my exams to date 1st time, with an 88% average.
I believe the reason for this is because personally I find the environment professional and friendly , I wasn't pressured to take exams before I was ready. Also unlike other school CATS residential classes are small which means students get more individual attention from Lectures, which gave me greater confidence in my first set of exams!!!
In my own experience currently on the residential course I would recommend the school for ATPL.
The Cooler King
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Look...
Schools take time to get set up and into the swing of things and some schools realise that they can get on with a minimal amount of facilities and resources and then make small improvements to calm the storm when some students kick off.
Distance learning for the ATPL examinations is a gold-mine for some people and like everywhere else in the industry, you will find the unscrupulous.
Mix that with the naivety of the average newbie who is usually quite keen to part with their money and there you have the recipe for what we are reading above.
And by the way, this is nothing new. The same comments have been bandied about here since the place opened.
People who have done their ATPL groundschool - either residential or distance learning, fall into three camps.
1. Those who attended, were happy with what was provided and have moved on to complete whatever target in aviation they set out to achieve.
2. Those who attended, didn't like what they got and proceeded to either raise hell about it, or put it down to experience and moved on.
3. Those in Camp 2, who although they know they got a bum deal, delude others and comfort themselves by stating that the school was, in fact, great with just a few minor problems. Therefore, providing disinformation for newbies who follow their advice.
Remember that some who post on here, might not be students at all.
They could be staff members from said schools, drumming up propaganda for themselves. Has happened elsewhere in the past - no reason why it shouldn't happen here.
The great thing for some aviation training providers is that the textbook wannabe doesn't know his arse from his elbow in relation to quality of training or facilities.
In fact, I expect over half of you have no idea what the actual requirements are for getting an ATPL before you set out.
Most of you will go off the brochure that the school gives you!
Basic advice, which I think poor Scroggs has doled out relentlessly since this place began....
Check out all the schools you can, as thoroughly as you can.
Go and visit.
If there are damp and mould patches running up the sides of the prefab classroom then chances are the material will be as shoddy and the instructors too.
I, for one, simply refuse to instruct in a dirty classroom. Professionalism is reflected all around you if you know where to look!
Have proper sets of questions to ask - don't just drop in. Plan. (You'll be doing a lot of that if you start flying.)
Make sure the person you speak to is actually responsible for the running of the school - there is no point meeting up with a talking head who has never seen an Air Law manual since they joined.
If they are reluctant to show you around then just leave - same if the sim or CBT centre doesn't appear to materialise, or the hardware looks like it's running Windows 95.
Get samples - check them for dates of issue. When was this stuff last updated? Find out. Bring it here!
The main trap is that most of you are on a tight budget and will always tend to swing towards the cheapest provider. Not always a good idea.
From experience, those of you who are looking to do a professional job on their ATPLs have three concrete choices.
I know there are also a few mid-range/average providers out there, who have their fans, but as most of those from Camp 1 above, now sitting in airliner cockpits with quality ATPL theory training in their back pocket will agree, you cannot go wrong with:
Bristol Groundschool
Oxford Aviation
London Metropolitan University
Done.
Schools take time to get set up and into the swing of things and some schools realise that they can get on with a minimal amount of facilities and resources and then make small improvements to calm the storm when some students kick off.
Distance learning for the ATPL examinations is a gold-mine for some people and like everywhere else in the industry, you will find the unscrupulous.
Mix that with the naivety of the average newbie who is usually quite keen to part with their money and there you have the recipe for what we are reading above.
And by the way, this is nothing new. The same comments have been bandied about here since the place opened.
People who have done their ATPL groundschool - either residential or distance learning, fall into three camps.
1. Those who attended, were happy with what was provided and have moved on to complete whatever target in aviation they set out to achieve.
2. Those who attended, didn't like what they got and proceeded to either raise hell about it, or put it down to experience and moved on.
3. Those in Camp 2, who although they know they got a bum deal, delude others and comfort themselves by stating that the school was, in fact, great with just a few minor problems. Therefore, providing disinformation for newbies who follow their advice.
Remember that some who post on here, might not be students at all.
They could be staff members from said schools, drumming up propaganda for themselves. Has happened elsewhere in the past - no reason why it shouldn't happen here.
The great thing for some aviation training providers is that the textbook wannabe doesn't know his arse from his elbow in relation to quality of training or facilities.
In fact, I expect over half of you have no idea what the actual requirements are for getting an ATPL before you set out.
Most of you will go off the brochure that the school gives you!
Basic advice, which I think poor Scroggs has doled out relentlessly since this place began....
Check out all the schools you can, as thoroughly as you can.
Go and visit.
If there are damp and mould patches running up the sides of the prefab classroom then chances are the material will be as shoddy and the instructors too.
I, for one, simply refuse to instruct in a dirty classroom. Professionalism is reflected all around you if you know where to look!
Have proper sets of questions to ask - don't just drop in. Plan. (You'll be doing a lot of that if you start flying.)
Make sure the person you speak to is actually responsible for the running of the school - there is no point meeting up with a talking head who has never seen an Air Law manual since they joined.
If they are reluctant to show you around then just leave - same if the sim or CBT centre doesn't appear to materialise, or the hardware looks like it's running Windows 95.
Get samples - check them for dates of issue. When was this stuff last updated? Find out. Bring it here!
The main trap is that most of you are on a tight budget and will always tend to swing towards the cheapest provider. Not always a good idea.
From experience, those of you who are looking to do a professional job on their ATPLs have three concrete choices.
I know there are also a few mid-range/average providers out there, who have their fans, but as most of those from Camp 1 above, now sitting in airliner cockpits with quality ATPL theory training in their back pocket will agree, you cannot go wrong with:
Bristol Groundschool
Oxford Aviation
London Metropolitan University
Done.
Last edited by Farrell; 29th Sep 2008 at 15:10.
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Farrell,
An absolutely spot on post.
Exactly - This being my second career, I know that I do not need to accept shoddy treatment and poor notes / feedback when I am the customer. Behaviour breeds behaviour, and so look for an establishment that oozes quality and professionalism.
I used OAA books to supplement my learning and the Bristol question bank to confirm my knowledge - but it shouldn't have had to be this way, and this is what people need to understand.
So go back, and read Farrell's advice. Read WWW's advice (I know it seems harsh, but it is the truth) and then make your decision. It's YOUR money, and YOUR future career. Don't put up with crap.
DW.
An absolutely spot on post.
Professionalism is reflected all around you if you know where to look!
I know there are also a few mid-range/average providers out there, who have their fans, but as most of those from Camp 1 above, now sitting in airliner cockpits with quality ATPL theory training in their back pocket will agree, you cannot go wrong with:
Bristol Groundschool
Oxford Aviation
London Metropolitan University
Bristol Groundschool
Oxford Aviation
London Metropolitan University
So go back, and read Farrell's advice. Read WWW's advice (I know it seems harsh, but it is the truth) and then make your decision. It's YOUR money, and YOUR future career. Don't put up with crap.
DW.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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So go back, and read Farrell's advice. Read WWW's advice
