World's first MPLs to be laid off
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World's first MPLs to be laid off
Not good news for the MPL wannabees
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Flight Training News: learn to fly, flying schools, PPL, CPL, ATPL, aircraft, helicopter, glider, microlight
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If those MPLs cant get jobs elsewhere; Sterling has basically killed MPL.
Why would any wannabe stump up £30k for a licence, for which when the airline gets rid of them (because its cheap for the airline) is potentially useless
Will make interesting listening when the head of sterling airlines operations makes his presentation to the RAeS flight crew training conference next month!!
Why would any wannabe stump up £30k for a licence, for which when the airline gets rid of them (because its cheap for the airline) is potentially useless
Will make interesting listening when the head of sterling airlines operations makes his presentation to the RAeS flight crew training conference next month!!
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You have to feel a bit sorry for those guys as at the end of the day they have lost their jobs. But like the rest of us out there they have taken the risk with their money and taken their chances.
Unfortunately they put their money on a license that is only any use to you if you are flying a commercial airliner. Now they cant even get in a 152 to keep their hand in.
I liked the bit of advice they were offered though - "go and do a CPL/IR". Bet one or two FTO's were chuffed at that!
Unfortunately they put their money on a license that is only any use to you if you are flying a commercial airliner. Now they cant even get in a 152 to keep their hand in.
I liked the bit of advice they were offered though - "go and do a CPL/IR". Bet one or two FTO's were chuffed at that!
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The reason these poor guys have been made redundant is due to the economic situation, not because of some issue surrounding MPL as a qualification. They are amongst 'conventionally' trained pilots at the same airline who are also being layed off. The difference is however that the MPL guys are absolutely snookered now with regards to alternative employment prospects. I think it will be incredibly difficult, if not nigh impossible or them to find something else, particularly given the economic outlook for the next few years. Theres also the issue of being 'accepted' by another airline/operator. Ironically, had the industry still been in boom time, no doubt everyone would be singing the praises of the MPL! It was always going to be a gamble though, setting yourself up as a guineau pig to be part of some new radical plan.
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The introduction of a stupid beancounter inspired qualification comes home to roost, I feel very sorry for the victims of this but the fact is the MPL gives you very little option but to be the slave of the company doing the training (and presumably have your money).
The lesson is clear............ get a real licence !
The lesson is clear............ get a real licence !
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The reason these poor guys have been made redundant is due to the economic situation, not because of some issue surrounding MPL as a qualification.
The bottom line is theres risk in any route, whether CPL IR Modular/integrated or MPL. This situation shows how the MPL is far risky to the wannabe than the old way. And if the MPL is perceived as that in the future then there'll be no wannabes signing up to do it, hence no need for MPL. The only solution is have MPL fully sponsored by the airline. If Sterling had pumped in £60k of investment in these guys at least when they lost their jobs they wouldnt be in debt, having wasted their own money on a useless licence.
I think MPL is great. But not when it leaves wannabes in debt and without a job.
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According to the news, there is nothing which matter directly and belittle MPL licenses...it was only a matter of Last-in First-out policy of dismissal used by the said company.Maaan...infact they are better off than a PPL + CPL + Fatpl with even a fresh type rating!!!!
Pity them???
They've got the hours.
Just be patient...soon or late...another airline will deploy its tapis rouge for ya guys.
But hopefully all is not lost for these pilots, as according to when they joined the airline (the first started last October) they will have amassed between 500 and 800 hours each on Sterling’s Boeing 757NG fleet by the time they finish
Pity them???
They've got the hours.
Just be patient...soon or late...another airline will deploy its tapis rouge for ya guys.
Last edited by Captain_djaffar; 12th Aug 2008 at 11:18.
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How different are the SOP's of one 737NG Operator to the next. Surely not that diificult and costly to convert someone.
Whenever a pilot changes company, however he was trained he has to do a short training course to adapt to the new companies SOP's!
Whenever a pilot changes company, however he was trained he has to do a short training course to adapt to the new companies SOP's!
Last edited by Ayla; 12th Aug 2008 at 10:21.
MPL training is, if I understand correctly, only permitted for an individual airline on an individual type. There is no read across to other types or airlines.
In my objection to the MPL, I suggested that the minimum 'traditional' fligth training to equip a MPL applicant with the requisite manual handling skills should equate to a CPL (VFR only) with MEP Class Rating. Fair enough to do all the expensive IF training in STDs using airline SOPs and multi-pilot techniques, but anything sub-CPL would be worthless to the applicant should the airline fall on lean times.......
It seems to me that the beancounters really wanted the MPL to be a zero flight time 'Microsoft' Pilot Licence.....
In my objection to the MPL, I suggested that the minimum 'traditional' fligth training to equip a MPL applicant with the requisite manual handling skills should equate to a CPL (VFR only) with MEP Class Rating. Fair enough to do all the expensive IF training in STDs using airline SOPs and multi-pilot techniques, but anything sub-CPL would be worthless to the applicant should the airline fall on lean times.......
It seems to me that the beancounters really wanted the MPL to be a zero flight time 'Microsoft' Pilot Licence.....
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Beagle you are not correct.
Once issued their is no restriction to a particular airline . They are restricted only to flying as a co-pilot on a Multi Crew Aircraft and obviously they will have a type specified that they trained on as does a conventional CPL/IR holder who has then gained a type rating.
Below is the Privileges from the EASA NPA for FCL, which are the same as are in JAR FCL1 and ICAO PANS TRG Annex 1.
As for zero flight hour microsoft pilots, ICAO insist that there are 70 hours of Aircraft flying!
exercised solely by reference to instruments and passed the skill test of the IR(A) as a singlepilot.
Once issued their is no restriction to a particular airline . They are restricted only to flying as a co-pilot on a Multi Crew Aircraft and obviously they will have a type specified that they trained on as does a conventional CPL/IR holder who has then gained a type rating.
Below is the Privileges from the EASA NPA for FCL, which are the same as are in JAR FCL1 and ICAO PANS TRG Annex 1.
As for zero flight hour microsoft pilots, ICAO insist that there are 70 hours of Aircraft flying!
FCL.405.A MPL Privileges
(a) The privileges of the holder of an MPL are to:
(1) act as copilot
in an aeroplane required to be operated with a copilot;
and
(2) exercise the privileges of the IR(A) in an aeroplane required to be operated with a copilot.
(b) The holder of an MPL may obtain the extra privileges of:
(1) the holder of a PPL(A), provided that the requirements for the PPL(A) specified in Subpart C
are met;
(2) a CPL(A), provided that the requirements specified in FCL.325.A are met;
(3) the IR(A) in singlepilot
operations in aeroplanes provided that the licence holder has
completed the training necessary to act as pilotincommand
in singlepilot
operations
(a) The privileges of the holder of an MPL are to:
(1) act as copilot
in an aeroplane required to be operated with a copilot;
and
(2) exercise the privileges of the IR(A) in an aeroplane required to be operated with a copilot.
(b) The holder of an MPL may obtain the extra privileges of:
(1) the holder of a PPL(A), provided that the requirements for the PPL(A) specified in Subpart C
are met;
(2) a CPL(A), provided that the requirements specified in FCL.325.A are met;
(3) the IR(A) in singlepilot
operations in aeroplanes provided that the licence holder has
completed the training necessary to act as pilotincommand
in singlepilot
operations
exercised solely by reference to instruments and passed the skill test of the IR(A) as a singlepilot.
Last edited by Ayla; 12th Aug 2008 at 10:18.
Ayla, see para 2 of Appendix 5 to Part-FCL Annex I:
Approval for an MPL training course shall only be given to an approved training organisation that is part of a commercial air transport operator certificated in accordance with Part-MS and Part-OPS or having a specific arrangement with such an operator. The licence shall be restricted to that specific operator until completion of the airline operator’s conversion course,
Had these unfortunates completed their 'airline operator's conversion course'?
Approval for an MPL training course shall only be given to an approved training organisation that is part of a commercial air transport operator certificated in accordance with Part-MS and Part-OPS or having a specific arrangement with such an operator. The licence shall be restricted to that specific operator until completion of the airline operator’s conversion course,
Had these unfortunates completed their 'airline operator's conversion course'?
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Beagle. The MPL Pilots at Sterling, referred to in this thread had completed the Airline Operators Conversion Course and are entitled to the privileges of the licence!
From the article at the start of this thread.
But hopefully all is not lost for these pilots, as according to when they joined the airline (the first started last October) they will have amassed between 500 and 800 hours each on Sterling’s Boeing 757NG
From the article at the start of this thread.
But hopefully all is not lost for these pilots, as according to when they joined the airline (the first started last October) they will have amassed between 500 and 800 hours each on Sterling’s Boeing 757NG
It will be interesting to see just what hoops these MPL pilots will have to jump through before joining another airline. What no one seems to have realised yet, is that these pilots do not have JAA/EASA licences. Denmark went its own way on MPL, before EASA had finished consulting on it, so these pilots only have Danish licences.
I presume there will be a way for them to convert to JAA/EASA MPLs, but have no idea what will be involved.
Jez
I presume there will be a way for them to convert to JAA/EASA MPLs, but have no idea what will be involved.
Jez
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By the application of JAR-FCL 1.015(a)(1), the licence holder is entitled to exercise licence privileges on aircraft registered in any Member State of the Joint Aviation Authorities.
Not a Danish licence, not locked to Sterling or the B737.
I've posted this in the thread in R & N but have copied it here so everyone knows what training they had:-
Just so everyone knows what they are talking about this is the syllabus and experience that the Sterling MPL'ers should have had:-
Pre-entry testCAPA & Sterling
Week 1 -6 PPL Theory/ Nat. Beg/ Core Flying Air Exercises 0 –5
Week 7 -9 Core Flying Air Exercises 6 –10 –First Solo
Week 10 -13 Core Flying Air Exercises 11 -18
Week 13 -16 Gen. Cert. –Core Flying Air Exercises 19 –24
Week 17 -58 ATPL Theory –Core Flying Air Exercises 25 –34Sterling entry test
Week 58 -64 Instrument Briefings –Core Flying Air Exercises 35 –53
Week 64 -67 AssumetricBriefings –Core Flying Air Exercises 54 –60
Week 68 -70 MCC/TEM Ground School –Basic MCC 1 –5
Week 71 -80 EM cont. –Basic MCC 6 –15
Week 81 -85 Introduction and Job Rotation in Sterling Airlines
Week 85 -86 B737 Ground School CBT/Performance/Mass and Balance
Week 86 -87 Emergency Training –Intermediate FFS 1 –5
Week 88 -89 Advanced FFS 1 –10 / MPL Skill Test
Week 90 Aircraft Training –12 Take offs and Landings
Week 91 -100 Route Training B737 NG –100 Block hours/40 legs
•A/C (1/2 eng) 76 hours
•FNPT II Multieng / MCC 110 hours
•B 737 Jet proc 20 hours
•B 737 FFS C/D 44 hours
•MPL total 250 hours
•B 737 A/C approx. 1hr (12 T/O & landings)
•Route training B737 100 hours
Pre-entry testCAPA & Sterling
Week 1 -6 PPL Theory/ Nat. Beg/ Core Flying Air Exercises 0 –5
Week 7 -9 Core Flying Air Exercises 6 –10 –First Solo
Week 10 -13 Core Flying Air Exercises 11 -18
Week 13 -16 Gen. Cert. –Core Flying Air Exercises 19 –24
Week 17 -58 ATPL Theory –Core Flying Air Exercises 25 –34Sterling entry test
Week 58 -64 Instrument Briefings –Core Flying Air Exercises 35 –53
Week 64 -67 AssumetricBriefings –Core Flying Air Exercises 54 –60
Week 68 -70 MCC/TEM Ground School –Basic MCC 1 –5
Week 71 -80 EM cont. –Basic MCC 6 –15
Week 81 -85 Introduction and Job Rotation in Sterling Airlines
Week 85 -86 B737 Ground School CBT/Performance/Mass and Balance
Week 86 -87 Emergency Training –Intermediate FFS 1 –5
Week 88 -89 Advanced FFS 1 –10 / MPL Skill Test
Week 90 Aircraft Training –12 Take offs and Landings
Week 91 -100 Route Training B737 NG –100 Block hours/40 legs
•A/C (1/2 eng) 76 hours
•FNPT II Multieng / MCC 110 hours
•B 737 Jet proc 20 hours
•B 737 FFS C/D 44 hours
•MPL total 250 hours
•B 737 A/C approx. 1hr (12 T/O & landings)
•Route training B737 100 hours
Thanks for pointing that out, Ayla.
But how would someone convert from an airline with one type of aeroplane to an airline with another, whilst holding only a MPL?
Would the standard TRTO course be sufficient?
But how would someone convert from an airline with one type of aeroplane to an airline with another, whilst holding only a MPL?
Would the standard TRTO course be sufficient?
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Obviously there is no actual precedent yet for this but as pointed out in Snubles post, the licence is valid for any multi engine aircraft as a co pilot provided they have a rating for that aircraft type. It would seem illogical to rate a pilot for one type of aircraft and that's all he can fly for the rest of his working life. I see nothing in the legislation that states the MPL Pilot would need any other training than passing a type rating.
The only disadvantage the Stirling Pilots would have against their CPL/IR/ TRTO trained compatriots is that they do not have the option to go and fly in a single pilot aircraft.
I feel also that the title to David Learmonts article in Flight International "MPL Pilots on the Scrapheap" or words to that effect, is hugely misleading. FTN got it right with "MPL Pilots laid off"
The only disadvantage the Stirling Pilots would have against their CPL/IR/ TRTO trained compatriots is that they do not have the option to go and fly in a single pilot aircraft.
I feel also that the title to David Learmonts article in Flight International "MPL Pilots on the Scrapheap" or words to that effect, is hugely misleading. FTN got it right with "MPL Pilots laid off"
