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Old 2nd Nov 2008, 19:00
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently they are also gona fit 2 CFM engines on the 152 so they can provide a jet orientation course!!!!!!!!
Spat my coffee out my nose at that one!

alotaflyin: You make many excellent points, well done on the extremely well structured, sensible, and calmly put post. Personally I find it hard at times to not get heated when talking about this whole ordeal.
I really hope people take the time to read it and take it on board before making a decision.

As I mentioned before here (I think!) I was over in AFC in August, talked to a few current students, and they do seem happy. The helicopter guys are really looked after well. The school has been upgraded since our time there, but the instructor numbers have gone down. And there's a lot of messing with the planes and upkeep of them from what I was told by the current students.
But as Charlie said there have been too many bad experiences suffered by myself and my peers in dealing with PRI/CAA (not AFC!!) for me to honestly stand up and recommend someone to train with them.

For the price, the job prospects (er? lol?), and the hassle with converting (that PRI/CAA have never put a student through yet - wouldn't want to be that guinea pig...) training in Canada if you want a job in Europe does not make sense.
If you want to train to work in Canada, which should be noted that you need a university/college degree to get in with a major carrier like Air Canada over there, then by all means do it. It is a fantastic place to train, the flying is amazing, and the quality of services for general aviation over there is second to none.

But please... stop and think for a minute.

Just get yourself some discipline, sit down and think, and plan it out. You can easily, with a tad extra effort, go directly to a flight school yourself while organising your own food and accomodation. You do not need to pay this overpriced fee. Especially when you compare it to 0-fATPL courses in Ireland/UK which are closely priced except the cost of fly here is three to four times the cost of that in Canada!
It turns my stomach to think that these lads are still "recruiting" gullible innocent people that simply aren't informed enough about the process of becoming an airline pilot. I feel sorry for them :-/

Some of you might think things have changed based on calling student houses etc, and maybe they have, but are you willing to stake a year in another country and 80k on it? After all the back and forth here from past students?

Someone said it perfectly, where there's smoke there's fire.
The hardest part of flight training is not the exams, the flight tests, or the goddamn 1 in 60 rule; it's picking your FTO. Take all the help you can get and weigh it up. Please.
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Old 2nd Nov 2008, 19:53
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The Miraculous Discovery

No offence taken! You are entitle to your opinion and are entitled to express it, as am I. May be you miss read parts of my post, I did state in my post that I had kept a note in my diary. I am use to keeping a diary especially when trying to make very important decisions that can have relatively large financial implications. I took these notes in my diary as my questions were answered over my telephone conversation with Mr Eddie Russell. How else is one to way up the pros and cons of all the different FTO’s! One may even mix up what one FTO had said with what another FTO if notes are not kept. As Zyox had said “sit down and think, and plan it out.”

I had learned to keep notes in a previous career where it was important to keep a record of meetings telephone calls and conversations that took place, it was important to keep a date and time record. A diary being the easiest way of doing this. After reading the posts here I looked back through my last year’s diary knowing I had kept a record on whatever day I had the phone conversation. I didn't simply scribble it a few pieces of paper to have a miraculous doscovery at a convenient time a year later. I personally didn't see the need to run to the pprune network and post my comments. I was trying to make a decision that was going to have huge financial implications on MY life; my priority at the time was gathering information to make the right decision for ME !!

Neither did I run to the pprune network a year ago when I was told by the lovely sales representative in PTC that Ryanair told them they would take every recruit they produced for the next 5 years!! (At the time I was slightly green and was not aware of covering my own Type Rating Costs for FR!) The lovely sales assistant didn’t seem to be aware of it either as she never mentioned it!

The points I make above are simply to put perspective on the whole topic here. Some FTO’s like a lot of commercial entities will tell you certain truths and leave aspect of what they say open to interpretation! This is the world we live in and businesses need to make money.

And Yes like YOU TopingTheGun Join Date: 15th oct 2008 (WE ARE BOTH NEW MEMBERS TO THE PPRUNE NETWORK) along with other NEW MEMBERS who are training in CAA presently! (OCT 2008). Like you all my posts are made within this thread!!

How lucky are we that we all just happened to join here just as this thread was getting juicy!!

When we leave all our ego’s and pride to one side maybe all us new members here on pprune who happened to join at a time when this thread interested us is we are simply trying to protect our identity thus protecting our future prospects and may be allow us to get our feet onto the bottom rung of the ladder in an industry that is very small!

And apologies TopingTheGun for putting you through the torture of having to read another extremely long post of mine. May be it’s somewhat self inflicted. Likewise No offence intended!
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Old 2nd Nov 2008, 20:53
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topingthegun..............

You remind me of ricky actually. He thought he was gona be in the next top gun movie. are u a plant or are you just another one of these guys who thinks he's gona be shooting down mig's in a couple of years?? I think its the former.

I couldn't be arsed trying to give you any more advice, you obviously have some money burning a hole in your pocket. Go give it to Pilot Recruitment Ireland/Pilot Recruitment International/Canadian Aviation Academy, you're too stubborn/naive to change your mind. Im sure they'll invest it wisely for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! You'll see what I mean when you go over.
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Old 3rd Nov 2008, 15:52
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Hey Alotaflyin,
I apologize for the tone of my previous post. It is very hard for me to read this forum and see the harsh attacks people against CAA put on the people for CAA and I firmly believe that a lot of it is below the belt and like Zyox states, it is difficult not to get heated. This is the school that I signed up for and I have always been a team player. I believe that you are someone who fully researches your choices and because of that benefit I would like to ask you which FTO did you decide upon? Are you currently training with that FTO and what do you make of it? I agree with what you said that maybe if we all put our egos away we may actually get somewhere.
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Old 3rd Nov 2008, 15:52
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Hey where did the post from Caa Legal go? That one was a classic. Please tell me someone kept a copy of it. Or was it the moderator that removed it?
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Old 3rd Nov 2008, 18:07
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They removed the post themselves having also tried to get the whole thread removed using a year's proposed advertising on PPRuNe as leverage.

I suspect you can work out for yourselves our reaction to that.

It's also been great seeing the agrarian revolution in action with plants sprouting in abundance. Many of you have spotted it yourself - inept naivety but bless anyway.

My particular favourite was this far more 'sophisticated' attempt suggesting independence of thought and opinion:

"I don’t mean to minimize what you have went through but I’m in regular mail contact with some of the lads over there."
Pity it was sent from the same IP address in Canada as the other happy new sign ups.

Email? Couldn't they just talk to each other?

Rob
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Old 3rd Nov 2008, 19:11
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topingthegun

I believe that you are someone who fully researches your choices and because of that benefit I would like to ask you which FTO did you decide upon? Are you currently training with that FTO and what do you make of it? I agree with what you said that maybe if we all put our egos away we may actually get somewhere.



Why would I give my personal details away on a public forum such as this. I have no intention of drawing a map to where i might be or to my identity! One thing i can assure you is that I am certainly not training or intending to train at CAA!

My first time on his planet was not in that heavy shower of rain two weeks ago that resulted in a lot of new plants sprouting up around the North Bay area of Canada. topingthegun sorry if i am being harsh but with all the new sign ups specifically for this thread I don't want to leave myself open to problems down the line!!

If your question was genuine then I do apologise but I’m really not prepared to broadcast my identity on this thread or clues that may lead to it. As i said I wish to cause trouble for no one! One thing i really detest is bullying, intimidation and heavy handed threats. Once in my life I would have felt very intimidated & insecure by such behaviour but I have learned that usually the intimidators are the ones who have something to hide and more consequences to suffer than the people on the receiving end of their threats and behaviour. (I wonder are the proprietors and management of Algonquin Flight Centre aware of this thread and the behaviour of CAA surrounding this)


All I will say is that no FTO are without their problems. When choosing one try and have a REALISTIC plan as to the companies you might wish to be employed by. When I say this I am also talking about work like balance rosters, days off etc. It’s a job at the end of the day and everyone needs to be realistic about the work life balance. Do you want to be away from home during the week. Would a work pattern of 6-on 4-off / 5-on 2-off suit you and your family etc! Look at the entire picture and start with what the airlines look for in a person.

If a problem does arise during training don't allow personality clashes or ego to get in the way. TRY to remain calm and keep a record of everything. Put you complaint or issue in writing politely but firmly and try to take an unbiased approach when dealing with the issue. When ego's, temper and personality clashes become involved it’s the beginning of the end!

(please excuse my spelling and grammatical errors in my posts, they are very hurried and I have little time to spend on this forum and should complete posts in a less hurried manner!)

Last edited by alotaflyin; 3rd Nov 2008 at 19:43.
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Old 3rd Nov 2008, 19:38
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PS Moderators, if I have broke any posting rules by placing this copy here then please let me know and i will remove it immediately!

____________________________________________________________ ______________

Pprune Towers - Rob thank you for your honesty in your post here about the behaviour of the CAA towards your team at pprune. It speaks volumes about the FTO, I just hope the young guys over there are not the subject of such behavior. And apologies for post now deleted!

Last edited by alotaflyin; 3rd Nov 2008 at 20:50. Reason: removal as requested for moderator.
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Old 3rd Nov 2008, 19:51
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I'd like you to delete it please alotaflyin as you have the same right to remove posts if you change your mind. Wouldn't have it any other way.

Secondly I'd like you to remove it as it closes with a bit of blatant marketing.

And finally because it is all too easy to infer that it is posts on PPRuNe that are subject to their tracking investigations. At no point do they clearly refer to the posts being on their own forum. A suprising lack of clarity.

Rob
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Old 4th Nov 2008, 00:10
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Well thank god for that. Thanks for that post Rob, I knew they were up to something. And when I opened my private messages today, I had a PM from a certain member (who toping the gun reminded me of), asking why I was personally attacking him. Now this person hasn't been too active over the past few months, but then just happened to log on yesterday to see the posts................coincidence??

At least it is all out in the open now what has been happening. What a cheek.

Let this be a lesson folks, think very very carefully who you give your money too.

And well done to all at Pprune for their good work
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Old 4th Nov 2008, 00:13
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wow

topingthegun:It is very hard for me to read this forum and see the harsh attacks people against CAA put on the people for CAA and I firmly believe that a lot of it is below the belt.......pribandit:....wow
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Old 4th Nov 2008, 10:38
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Ricky1 (posted 14th March 2007, 17:28)

PRI believe on hiring from within their own pool or students. I will be doing my instructor rating soon and have too many options on where I want to go work at the moment its unreal. I will get an airline job from PRI and that says a lot compared to other FTO's who train you and basically through you out on your arse after you done your training.

I am sick of hearing from other friends of mine in a lot of FTO's across the world been promised something and it not been true at all. I feel really bad that I'm here doing so well and they have nobody to help them. I have seen first hand the contacts PRI has and it almost too good to be true..

Hi Ricky1

If you happen to browse this thread may be you would fill us in on how you are doing at present. The post quoted above was placed on pprune in March 2007 that is 1 year and 8 onths ago. If you feel like answering could you let us know if you are now employed? Are you instructing for CAA? I am assuming from your post that you are approaching your third year? If so what professional pilot positions have CAA / Pri set up for you considering all the " almost to good to be true.." contacts they have within the industry. I don't expect you to answer with personal details here!!!!! But if you could place an accurate post it may balance some of the negativity towards CAA even if some of it has been self inflicted!

Regards
Alotaflyin
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Old 4th Nov 2008, 13:58
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I must say, I felt a sense of triumph, if not downright vindication, when I read the mod's post yesterday about how CAA tried to lean on pprune to remove this thread.
These guys will do anything to try and discredit the former students or stop them speaking out. Sorry Mr. Russell, but you simply can't sweep this under the carpet or try and buy your way out of trouble. Did you really think students were just going to forget about the outrageous promises made by you and your company?
It is also obvious that CAA are suffering badly from the negative publicity, and given the state of the economy, its not hard to predict that there are going to be rocky times ahead. My advice to current students: move fast to finish your training while the ship is still afloat.

To Rob at pprune:
Sir, I salute you. It's good to know that there are still some people out there with the moral courage to stick to their guns and fight the good fight. It would have been all too easy to accept the cash "incentive" and sell all the students down the river. Did they offer an incentive to provide ISP addresses too?

topingthegun:
nice attempt at luring alotaflyin out into the open. You could almost call it clever, but not quite. Better luck next time 007.

vti:
I am resting very easy in the sence that my money is going to a very capable bunch of people
Oh Gordon, Gordon, Gordon. There are many colourful terms one could use to describe CAA. Capable is certainly not one of them. Have you researched if there is a get out clause should you decide not to continue your training and want a refund? Better get it in writing and signed if there is......which I doubt it. Anyway, let us know how you get on, and please do it of free will, not under duress. The good and the bad please.
Welcome to the Jungle is all I can say......

Anyone think anymore about telling their story to the media? I know a journalist who has been keeping an eye on things here. Knows a good story when she see's one....
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Old 4th Nov 2008, 19:33
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Wow. Walked into my current FTO yesterday (I'm converting my Canadian license - taking a while with the Irish weather but what's the rush now ) and a student I know was all talk about the PPRuNe thread all PRI/CAA.
He was never with them or even thought about going over there, but I laughed at how so many people know about these guys and have talked to people over there and heard the horror stories. I told him a few myself, stuff that I won't ever post here, and he was open-mouthed shocked at what he heard. Hopefully those considering going over, being misguided by the marketing lies, will see sense. And that's all I'll say.

Rob: Fair play. Great to see the moderators doing a bang up job.

If someone has a copy of the CAA-legal post could they PM it to me? I'd really like to have it
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Old 6th Nov 2008, 14:06
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Well it seems all's quiet on the western front.......
Hey does anyone remember the by now infamous PRI Aerobatics team that was once actually offered as an employment alternative?!!!! You couldn't make this stuff up.....Hang on, actually you could! Over to you, CAA....

http://www.priforum.com/attachment.p...3&d=1181747974

And don't bother trying to remove all the articles CAA, they've already been saved...

Here are the rest....
Canadian Aviation Academy In The News - Canadian Aviation Academy Forum
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Old 16th Nov 2008, 02:13
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THE AEROBATIC TEAM!!id forgotten about that!a certain director of the company who has 250 hours in 152's and 172's and hasnt flown a plane in about 2 years was gonna be the captain..cos that was "his lifelong dream"!!priceless...i also remember having a hysterical middle aged woman literally drag me into the diner she owned to berate me over the fact that pri had an account with her for student dinners only to welch on the bill and the aforementioned director had given her a fake phone number in the first place!great way to do buisness in a small town..wasnt the last time that stunt was pulled either
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Old 3rd Dec 2008, 15:40
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I've just had an interesting conversation with my reporter friend this morning. She's definitely following up the story here, it looks like there's going to be an article about CAA in one of the national newspapers shortly. It seems one of the students that was badly treated has some interesting family connections....
If you are willing to tell your story and expose these guys for once and for all, pm me and I will supply you with her number at the office. I asked her about confidentiality, and she said you won't be named should you ask it. It's about time the former students stood up and exposed what was going on here. It really is up to you. The wheel is about to turn on CAA..........
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Old 15th Jan 2009, 21:30
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Baaaaaaahaha.....
Just saw the new flashy website for the CAA (is that the fourth or fifth time its been changed now?), no sign of our good friend Mr. Eddie Russell C.E.O., what gives? I hope his antics on here haven't caused any friction within the company?....
Has anyone else heard the rumour that Gateway helicopters has closed it's doors this season? Something I heard on the grapevine, anyone got any info on that?
I think its pretty shameful that they don't even have the decency to mention that Ron Macdonald is deceased, but instead use his image to plug their company. Nice touch guys, really nice.
In the meantime, any sign of a twin engine plane coming online this year so that last years students can finally finish up after having to wait around for the last 6 months?
Very cunning how they removed the fleet of aircraft from the website. Maybe they don't have a king air after all......
Gotta love the desperate marketing trick too -"step right up folks, only a limited number of places available! Get em here while you still can!" If this doesn't smack of desperation, I don't know what does. Priceless stuff!- Pilot.ie - 2009 Airplane Course Dates
Hmmm no mention of a JAA instructor at the school. Strange, that....

But my favourite bit by far has to be the bit about jobs afterwards- Pilot.ie - Job prospects for Canadian pilots
Translation: We filled this section with company speak and random facts (The Canadian Military is experiencing a shortage of pilots and is actively recruiting, you know) to hide the fact that basically, we haven't a clue how to get work for you. Cheerio, and thanks for the cash suckers!

Last edited by bombsaway80; 16th Jan 2009 at 03:43.
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Old 22nd Jan 2009, 17:09
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PRI - CAA - Algonquinn

I see that this crowd are now advertising under the guise of Algonquin Flight Centre Canada, they must own the place now! They are advertising on the flying in Ireland website.

They are advertising CPL/Multi IR for just under 40K doesn't state if its JAA training or not

When you check out the site it is the same web address as the other sites PRI - CAA used to use.

Last edited by alotaflyin; 22nd Jan 2009 at 17:26.
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Old 26th Jan 2009, 19:53
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Hmmm.....my sources inform me that CAA have indeed purchased the full share of the flight school. Thats the end of them then, if the financial management of the last 3 years is anything to go by.
I think that probably wouldn't be a JAA licence either for 40k, that'll be an extra 75 million euros for that please! Some fella was saying that they plan on doing the JAA training in Greece if you don't mind. I wonder who pays for the food and accomodation out there?
Also, it seems our little plant friends were getting a bit brave again there recently, I had to prune one, if you'll excuse the pun
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...l-ireland.html
Speaking of plants, anyone know how Ricky or Winto22 are doing these days?
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