November 2008 - OBA. Anyone else going?
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 303
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From: France & UK
By the time you have included for a headset and charts etc etc, and included your flights and spending, then it does work out a little cheaper staying and doing the PPL in the UK.
The only advantage of doing your PPL in the USA these days, is the weather, and yet depending on when you , you may find that you only get to fly in the monrings or at night.
VFR
The only advantage of doing your PPL in the USA these days, is the weather, and yet depending on when you , you may find that you only get to fly in the monrings or at night.
VFR
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: West Sussex, UK
Down south near me the cost of the PPL is about £7.5k without landing fees, headset, fuel surcharges etc.
Even if you have to buy flights out to Florida, a headset, charts etc etc, it still works out approximately £2.5k - £3k cheaper! Yes you're still paying the same price as before at OBA but like sketchy says, it's a great headline for them.
I'm hoping that the weather in November is conducive to all day flying, although if it's early morning and late afternoon I have no issues with that.
Even if you have to buy flights out to Florida, a headset, charts etc etc, it still works out approximately £2.5k - £3k cheaper! Yes you're still paying the same price as before at OBA but like sketchy says, it's a great headline for them.
I'm hoping that the weather in November is conducive to all day flying, although if it's early morning and late afternoon I have no issues with that.
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,846
From: England
One of the most common, most enduring and biggest mistakes Wannabes make is investing in the cheapest possible PPL.
I used to teach 3 week £2,995 UK PPL courses in 1999 and I also used to do checkouts for those coming back from doing a PPL course abroad so I have some insight into this.
There are some perfectly excellent UK schools offering a realistic PPL course for £6,500 who can also then take you on to the CPL, Multi and IR with the same aircraft, airfields and instructor. Which would put you at a massive advantage compared to some Florida monkey who crammed 3 weeks of instruction into North American skies and then thinks they know how to fly privately in the UK.
The PPL is the foundation of your house. Weak foundations will give rise to cracks and future expense as you continue to build. Every time.
Good luck,
WWW
I used to teach 3 week £2,995 UK PPL courses in 1999 and I also used to do checkouts for those coming back from doing a PPL course abroad so I have some insight into this.
There are some perfectly excellent UK schools offering a realistic PPL course for £6,500 who can also then take you on to the CPL, Multi and IR with the same aircraft, airfields and instructor. Which would put you at a massive advantage compared to some Florida monkey who crammed 3 weeks of instruction into North American skies and then thinks they know how to fly privately in the UK.
The PPL is the foundation of your house. Weak foundations will give rise to cracks and future expense as you continue to build. Every time.
Good luck,
WWW
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: West Sussex, UK
Hi WWW,
I know that US skies are completely different to the UK skies and I'm expecting to put a fair few hours in when I get back learning the differences. Price is a consideration for me, I'll make no bones about it. The extra money saved by doing it in the US will allow me to buy some extra tuition in the UK to bring me up to speed. It will give me more hours and cost me the same as a PPL here.
If you still taught 3 week £3000 UK PPLs I would be first to sign up. But the flying clubs in my area, Redhill, Shoreham, perhaps Biggin Hill are just very expensive. I am aware that the transition to the UK is going to be turbulent but I'm determined not to be a crap pilot and will do all I can to stop it from happening.
I know that US skies are completely different to the UK skies and I'm expecting to put a fair few hours in when I get back learning the differences. Price is a consideration for me, I'll make no bones about it. The extra money saved by doing it in the US will allow me to buy some extra tuition in the UK to bring me up to speed. It will give me more hours and cost me the same as a PPL here.
If you still taught 3 week £3000 UK PPLs I would be first to sign up. But the flying clubs in my area, Redhill, Shoreham, perhaps Biggin Hill are just very expensive. I am aware that the transition to the UK is going to be turbulent but I'm determined not to be a crap pilot and will do all I can to stop it from happening.
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,846
From: England
Ok - as long as you are aware that it often takes five hours or so to do a US PPL to UK club member checkout. The R/T and the procedures and airspace are somewhat different.
I understand that cost is very important. But money spent wisely at PPL level can reap great cost savings further on at the CPL and Multi IR levels where costs are triple.
WWW
I understand that cost is very important. But money spent wisely at PPL level can reap great cost savings further on at the CPL and Multi IR levels where costs are triple.
WWW
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: West Sussex, UK
Hi WWW,
yep, approximately 5 hours is what I had planned as well as RT coaching upon my return. Many thanks for your frank and honest feedback, it really is appreciated.
Cheers
Matt
yep, approximately 5 hours is what I had planned as well as RT coaching upon my return. Many thanks for your frank and honest feedback, it really is appreciated.
Cheers
Matt
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,267
Likes: 36
From: uk
Must agree with WWW, I did my PPL in USA and passed first time in 3 weeks, on hindsight I would have done it in the UK, the cracks certainly do appear as you progress to higher ratings. I wouldn't say the RT and airspace are vastly different, never really had a problem switching between US and UK RT having done some hours over there, although I did ask Leuchars for Flight Following once and was granted a Flight Information service by the amused controller.
I don't think it is actually the instruction that is bad in the US its the timescale, no time to consolidate on your morning lesson until you are back up for your afternoon lesson then again for your evening lesson. So you have virtually forgotten what went on in the morning. I know when it comes to advanced ratings this ability to learn quickly is needed but when learning the foundations a bit more time is needed. Don't think I could trim properly or fly straight and level when I got back from the States, and my hour building with a bad technique compounded the issues.
If I had to do it again I'd do it at a local club, at weekends and at night after work if possible, 2 lessons a weekish, would give plenty of time to reflect on each lesson. Also saves you taking time off work and all the other added expenses it costs going to the states.
I don't think it is actually the instruction that is bad in the US its the timescale, no time to consolidate on your morning lesson until you are back up for your afternoon lesson then again for your evening lesson. So you have virtually forgotten what went on in the morning. I know when it comes to advanced ratings this ability to learn quickly is needed but when learning the foundations a bit more time is needed. Don't think I could trim properly or fly straight and level when I got back from the States, and my hour building with a bad technique compounded the issues.
If I had to do it again I'd do it at a local club, at weekends and at night after work if possible, 2 lessons a weekish, would give plenty of time to reflect on each lesson. Also saves you taking time off work and all the other added expenses it costs going to the states.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 112
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From: SW
You pays your money and.....
WWW is a bigot (as exemplified by his... uhmm... 'unfortunate' offensive stereotype 'Florida monkey') with a track record of rubbishing 'foreign' aviation training and that at USA JAA-FTO's in particular.
It is certainly and obviously true that 100 hours would 'train' anyone better than 50 hours, whether in a car, tractor, aircraft etc. Predictably, most people don't have the money or patience to do much more than the minimum required to obtain any licence or rating. Also, there is the practical problem that aircraft availability, weather etc. mean that 'getting it' in the UK usually takes a great deal longer than in the USA. That said, training in the UK will suit plodders and people whose business/job/relationship will not allow them to leave the country for a few weeks. It is, also, necessary for those who save-up for their next weekly lesson and take a year to obtain their PPL.
Going to the USA does involve additional expense of flight, visa etc. but it will be much cheaper overall
Lastly, in response to two more myths:
1. OBA and, presumably, others don't care if you want to take more than however long is allocated to their packages- the time pressure is mainly from the customers rather the FTO's who will happily extend- you only have to pay for accommodation time which is not included in your course package.
2. If you turn-up to rent at Old Farts Flying Club, with a new PPL obtained anywhere else, it won't matter if you are a Welsh wizard, a 'Florida monkey' or an Essex expert, they'll give you a hard time and insist on checking you out, familiarisation, membership etc. etc. before you're accepted.
It is certainly and obviously true that 100 hours would 'train' anyone better than 50 hours, whether in a car, tractor, aircraft etc. Predictably, most people don't have the money or patience to do much more than the minimum required to obtain any licence or rating. Also, there is the practical problem that aircraft availability, weather etc. mean that 'getting it' in the UK usually takes a great deal longer than in the USA. That said, training in the UK will suit plodders and people whose business/job/relationship will not allow them to leave the country for a few weeks. It is, also, necessary for those who save-up for their next weekly lesson and take a year to obtain their PPL.
Going to the USA does involve additional expense of flight, visa etc. but it will be much cheaper overall
Lastly, in response to two more myths:
1. OBA and, presumably, others don't care if you want to take more than however long is allocated to their packages- the time pressure is mainly from the customers rather the FTO's who will happily extend- you only have to pay for accommodation time which is not included in your course package.
2. If you turn-up to rent at Old Farts Flying Club, with a new PPL obtained anywhere else, it won't matter if you are a Welsh wizard, a 'Florida monkey' or an Essex expert, they'll give you a hard time and insist on checking you out, familiarisation, membership etc. etc. before you're accepted.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
True. I earned my PPL at OBA and had to go through the old checkout and familiarisation routine with the local club when I returned. That said, I enjoyed it and was pleased to learn that the CFI thought that things were fine, despite an unhealthy trust of USA 3¬4 week PPL'rs.
If you study before you leave, the exams are easy and you can concentrate on and consolidate your flying. Even better, do the exams before you leave. (Extra cost though).
Going out without studying is foolish - stress, pressure and division of effort. Also, if you plan to visit the theme parks and drink every night, you may find you have not got your head in the right place and the cheap costs will become expensive in the long run as you fail to acheive the targets on time.
Stay focused and prepare and you'll be fine.
If you study before you leave, the exams are easy and you can concentrate on and consolidate your flying. Even better, do the exams before you leave. (Extra cost though).
Going out without studying is foolish - stress, pressure and division of effort. Also, if you plan to visit the theme parks and drink every night, you may find you have not got your head in the right place and the cheap costs will become expensive in the long run as you fail to acheive the targets on time.
Stay focused and prepare and you'll be fine.
