Reduced employment opportunities with criminal blemish.
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Reduced employment opportunities with criminal blemish.
Some cops charged me with assault 9 years ago just for being the driver of a car that my mate threw an egg out of when I was like 18. (cops had to something to prove because an off dutie policeman started a fight with the guy who through the egg and was subsequently injured, even my brothers girlfriend was charged for supplying the weapon.... An EGG left over from a BBQ) I was told to just plead guilty and I would be right, being an apprentice at the time I had no money to fight this ridiculous charge, the Judge said "no conviction will be recorded".
I wonder if something like this might come back to haunt me when looking for jobs. Does "no conviction recorded" actually mean anything? I presume this won't come up in a run of the mill criminal check because of the "no conviction recorded" but the details will be there somewhere for people to find if they dig deep enough.
I wonder if this would effect my employment opportunities in this industry. I am currently a railway signal electrician (install and maintain the systems which ensure the safe travel of trains)
I wonder if something like this might come back to haunt me when looking for jobs. Does "no conviction recorded" actually mean anything? I presume this won't come up in a run of the mill criminal check because of the "no conviction recorded" but the details will be there somewhere for people to find if they dig deep enough.
I wonder if this would effect my employment opportunities in this industry. I am currently a railway signal electrician (install and maintain the systems which ensure the safe travel of trains)
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From the way you've told it, you should be OK but it might be worth getting some legal advice in your own country as to whether you actually have a criminal record or not. In the UK, minor convictions like this become spent after a period of time anyway. Reading again, it sounds like the UK equivalent of a caution and they don't appear on criminal records searches.
It was nearly ten years ago and even if it still stands, I'm sure most people would be sympathetic given the nature of the misdemeanour. However, if you need to recount the circumstance, be wary of including emotive phrases like "cops had to something to prove"; it wouldn't help your case!!
Cheers
Whirls
It was nearly ten years ago and even if it still stands, I'm sure most people would be sympathetic given the nature of the misdemeanour. However, if you need to recount the circumstance, be wary of including emotive phrases like "cops had to something to prove"; it wouldn't help your case!!
Cheers
Whirls
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You were charged with assault because your mate threw an egg out of a car window... is that really the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth??? If so you took some very very bad legal advice for pleading guilty...
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I think the crux is here, charged but not convicted; cautioned by a judge, that's all! No reason to doubt that that is not the truth; seems reasonable to me and pragmatic of the judge.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
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I am not 100% but I thought all background checks ony stretched back 5years. Anyway, throwing an egg and getting done with assault is not the end of the world. It is hardly assault with a deadly weapon ! I am sure airline/HR people would take it with a pinch of salt. I had a mate who was drunk collapse (outcold!) onto a female police officer several years back. Subsequently charged with assault at the time and now he works for them ! Its a strange aul world.
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Dennis,
Looks like your 'dan undu'! , in which case you probably need to check what the deal is in OZ. In the UK, generally employers require a Disclosure Certificate for employement purposes, which is basically just a criminal record/background check. We also have a whats known as 'spent convictions' in terms of the Rehabilitation Of Offenders Act. ie. aftr 'so many' years, depending on your convction and the offence, your record will be 'spent'.
By the sounds of it however, you were not convicted of anything in court. You were obviously charged and the case went as far as a court appearance but that appears to be the extent of it. By the looks of it, the judge admonished you i.e. no case to answer! Your mate on the other hand may not have been so lucky. Best check with your local Police and they should be able to give you some paperwork to apply(for a fee of course) for a crmiminal record check. Thats certainly possible here in the uk.
As for it affecting your flying career, I would doubt that very much.
Looks like your 'dan undu'! , in which case you probably need to check what the deal is in OZ. In the UK, generally employers require a Disclosure Certificate for employement purposes, which is basically just a criminal record/background check. We also have a whats known as 'spent convictions' in terms of the Rehabilitation Of Offenders Act. ie. aftr 'so many' years, depending on your convction and the offence, your record will be 'spent'.
By the sounds of it however, you were not convicted of anything in court. You were obviously charged and the case went as far as a court appearance but that appears to be the extent of it. By the looks of it, the judge admonished you i.e. no case to answer! Your mate on the other hand may not have been so lucky. Best check with your local Police and they should be able to give you some paperwork to apply(for a fee of course) for a crmiminal record check. Thats certainly possible here in the uk.
As for it affecting your flying career, I would doubt that very much.
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If you are unable to express yourself more coherently in English then your criminal record is irrelevant.
"... when I was like 18"
"...off dutie..."
"... through the egg ..."
"... I would be right, being an apprentice at the time ..."
(How did you manage to fit two ambiguities and a clanging coloquilism into ten words?)
"... effect my employment opportunities ..."
Far better than advising you about criminal records no-one here seems to know a lot about, can I advise you to take adult literacy classes? Alternatively I found that studying a foreign language taught me a lot about writing in my own.
I am not being pedantic, these things matter. They matter even more in days when I am throwing 90% of CVs I receive straight out on the merest whim, where only eighteen months ago I was struggling to find the quality of applicant I wanted. Although I am in Europe, I can't imagine Aus is much more promising, as it has always been a net exporter of pilots.
Putting it over to you, do you really think the language skill you have shown here is what employers look for in a commercial pilot? Do you really think slack, poorly-constructed splatters of words (I was going to say sentences, but you have merged a whole paragraph into one amorphous heap for us to untangle) riddled with ambiguity and coloquilism are a sensible way of asking for advice?
"... when I was like 18"
"...off dutie..."
"... through the egg ..."
"... I would be right, being an apprentice at the time ..."
(How did you manage to fit two ambiguities and a clanging coloquilism into ten words?)
"... effect my employment opportunities ..."
Far better than advising you about criminal records no-one here seems to know a lot about, can I advise you to take adult literacy classes? Alternatively I found that studying a foreign language taught me a lot about writing in my own.
I am not being pedantic, these things matter. They matter even more in days when I am throwing 90% of CVs I receive straight out on the merest whim, where only eighteen months ago I was struggling to find the quality of applicant I wanted. Although I am in Europe, I can't imagine Aus is much more promising, as it has always been a net exporter of pilots.
Putting it over to you, do you really think the language skill you have shown here is what employers look for in a commercial pilot? Do you really think slack, poorly-constructed splatters of words (I was going to say sentences, but you have merged a whole paragraph into one amorphous heap for us to untangle) riddled with ambiguity and coloquilism are a sensible way of asking for advice?
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grow up!
lost man standing. do you have a problem today? something you would like to discuss with all of us?
what on earth are you doing claiming you are 'not being pedantic' with comments like that!!! this is not a job interview, you are not looking at anyone's CV now. if that is your attitude to a pprune post then i can only sympathise with any applicants that might make an interview with your company. if you really do undertake the practice of 'throwing 90% of CVs I receive straight out on the merest whim' then you really are very unprofessional in you approach to recruiting. i do feel sorry for you. you seem to have a critical approach to most of your recent posts. perhaps with your position you could have provided some advice regarding the topic of the post, but no you give critical comments regarding spelling and grammar!
DennisRB, i dont think you will have any problems, but remember in an interview honesty is always the best policy. good luck.
what on earth are you doing claiming you are 'not being pedantic' with comments like that!!! this is not a job interview, you are not looking at anyone's CV now. if that is your attitude to a pprune post then i can only sympathise with any applicants that might make an interview with your company. if you really do undertake the practice of 'throwing 90% of CVs I receive straight out on the merest whim' then you really are very unprofessional in you approach to recruiting. i do feel sorry for you. you seem to have a critical approach to most of your recent posts. perhaps with your position you could have provided some advice regarding the topic of the post, but no you give critical comments regarding spelling and grammar!
DennisRB, i dont think you will have any problems, but remember in an interview honesty is always the best policy. good luck.
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Pot kettle black.
Have a bit of respect Speedbird. Would you speak to someone face to face like that or only when you can remain anonymous? I have thrown away poorly completed application forms - so do most employers. In my opinion telling someone about this is not being pedantic, it is giving important and useful advice.
An Aussie criminal?
Sorry couldn't resist it. In all seriousness, if an application form is filled in badly it doesn't matter about the person or their past as they would be very unlikely to get to interview anyway especially for a job as a pilot.
You just need to find out whether it will come up on a search by a potential employer. If it is likely to then you need to mention it beforehand and work on your explanation. If it is unlikely to then do not mention it to anyone.
Only an opinion of course.
Have a bit of respect Speedbird. Would you speak to someone face to face like that or only when you can remain anonymous? I have thrown away poorly completed application forms - so do most employers. In my opinion telling someone about this is not being pedantic, it is giving important and useful advice.
An Aussie criminal?
Sorry couldn't resist it. In all seriousness, if an application form is filled in badly it doesn't matter about the person or their past as they would be very unlikely to get to interview anyway especially for a job as a pilot.You just need to find out whether it will come up on a search by a potential employer. If it is likely to then you need to mention it beforehand and work on your explanation. If it is unlikely to then do not mention it to anyone.
Only an opinion of course.
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I think 'Lost man standing's attitude is totally unacceptable. If you really want to help someone with their employment chances I don't think making them look like an idiot on a public forum is going to help.
Perhaps a PM next time would be more effective.
Perhaps a PM next time would be more effective.
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Why do people have to criticise, Get a grip! - I am sure a few spelling mistakes in his literature on pprune won't go amiss and there are quite a few people who claim to be "commercial pilots" on this site who type incorrect wordings and sentences and I am positive DennisRB would check his application form and be extra careful when writing it out.
Dennis RB ref your query - Don't volunteer anything unless asked, so long as the convictions are 'spent' for the purposes of the act, but that there is little to be gained by concealing these convictions if the company asks about your legal history. Honesty tends to be the best policy, once asked. You need to check the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act for the specific crimes you have been convicted of. After 5 years your conviction becomes 'spent'. The rehabilitations act of 1974 clearly states that of you are asked the question "have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence"; you are allowed to say "no sir, I have not" if your conviction is spent. This is true whether it be on an application form or during interview.
You have nothing to fear, airlines will never find out unless you really want them to. Even then, I guarantee you it will not rule you out.
So the answer to your question Dennis is this will not affect your employment opportunities in this industry so you’re ok to get on with your training and the best of luck.
Dennis RB ref your query - Don't volunteer anything unless asked, so long as the convictions are 'spent' for the purposes of the act, but that there is little to be gained by concealing these convictions if the company asks about your legal history. Honesty tends to be the best policy, once asked. You need to check the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act for the specific crimes you have been convicted of. After 5 years your conviction becomes 'spent'. The rehabilitations act of 1974 clearly states that of you are asked the question "have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence"; you are allowed to say "no sir, I have not" if your conviction is spent. This is true whether it be on an application form or during interview.
You have nothing to fear, airlines will never find out unless you really want them to. Even then, I guarantee you it will not rule you out.
So the answer to your question Dennis is this will not affect your employment opportunities in this industry so you’re ok to get on with your training and the best of luck.
)
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Thanks for the helpful replies and PM. This forum seems to be quite an easygoing and friendly place for the most part. However, as with any forum, there is always those with apparent personality disorders ready to tear strips off anyone they can.
Lost man standing. I did not realize this forum was some sort of gentleman's finishing school. I merely cut and pasted my post from another easy going forum, and changed the relevance a little to suit this forum without re writing the whole lot. I express my deepest regrets for the bad spelling, grammar and slang in my post. I hope you can accept my sincerest apologies for the extreme pain and suffering I have obviously caused you.
Since you have made it so clear that you truly care about my future in this industry. I will take this as an opportunity to send you every piece of formal writing I do in the future. It will be great see which errors needs to be addressed in order for you not to just throw it out "on the merest whim" like 90% of CVs you receive....
Anyway It appears as though some of you may have been in similar position to me with no negative consequences in your career. I am going to an open day this Saturday where I hope I may find someone that can help me know for sure. It seems there is a difference of opinion regarding whether or not I should disclose this incident to a prospective employer. It would come down to the ability of the employer to access this information. I am still unsure if it is possible for this information to be accessed or not given the nature of the "no conviction recorded" offense.
As for the details of the offense (for those who questioned it, and those who like a story). I was the driver of a car which my mate threw a couple of eggs out. This made me an accessory to assault. My brother was also charged. All he done was sit in the car. This is no eggsaggeration. Technically we were guilty. However any decent lawyer would have been able to get us off the charge, but it would have cost me almost as much as I earned in a year at the time. I was only a first year apprentice electrician.
Although I surely wouldn't tell anyone in a formal situation. The cops did have something to prove in my opinion. As far as they were concerned they wanted us all in gaol due to what happened next. A policeman on his day off was driving behind us in his old crappy car with his wife and kid. None of us thought he was really a policeman. He just looked like some hillbilly redneck vigilante. He saw my mate throw the egg and tried his best to apprehend us. He was following us and I did not want to drive dangerously to try get away from him. So I stopped and my mate got out. The rest of us stayed in the car. I was certainly not going to get into a fight over this.
The cops idea of bringing the evil egg fiend to justice was to punch him in the head, which sort of backfired when he got belted up quite severely before he was able to subdue my mate. At this stage pretty much every police car in town arrived and they were not too happy at one of their mates being inured, so they threw the book at all of us.
My mate was charged with assault for the eggings and assault causing grievous bodily harm to the cop. The rest of were not involved in relation to the assault of the police man, or even throwing an egg. So the charges they gave us were the best they could come up with. They needed to defame us as much as they could in order to make us look bad as witnesses in relation to the fight my mate had with the cop. Even so, my mate won the court case against the cop and the judge ruled the cop acted in an inappropriate matter. It did cost him around $20,000 though. He just pleaded guitly to the eggings and was ordered to pay $200 compensation to the victims of his eggings.
The whole incident was a big mistake, but there is no turning back time. So we just have to live with it.
Lost man standing. I did not realize this forum was some sort of gentleman's finishing school. I merely cut and pasted my post from another easy going forum, and changed the relevance a little to suit this forum without re writing the whole lot. I express my deepest regrets for the bad spelling, grammar and slang in my post. I hope you can accept my sincerest apologies for the extreme pain and suffering I have obviously caused you.
Since you have made it so clear that you truly care about my future in this industry. I will take this as an opportunity to send you every piece of formal writing I do in the future. It will be great see which errors needs to be addressed in order for you not to just throw it out "on the merest whim" like 90% of CVs you receive....
Anyway
It appears as though some of you may have been in similar position to me with no negative consequences in your career. I am going to an open day this Saturday where I hope I may find someone that can help me know for sure. It seems there is a difference of opinion regarding whether or not I should disclose this incident to a prospective employer. It would come down to the ability of the employer to access this information. I am still unsure if it is possible for this information to be accessed or not given the nature of the "no conviction recorded" offense.As for the details of the offense (for those who questioned it, and those who like a story). I was the driver of a car which my mate threw a couple of eggs out. This made me an accessory to assault. My brother was also charged. All he done was sit in the car. This is no eggsaggeration. Technically we were guilty. However any decent lawyer would have been able to get us off the charge, but it would have cost me almost as much as I earned in a year at the time. I was only a first year apprentice electrician.
Although I surely wouldn't tell anyone in a formal situation. The cops did have something to prove in my opinion. As far as they were concerned they wanted us all in gaol due to what happened next. A policeman on his day off was driving behind us in his old crappy car with his wife and kid. None of us thought he was really a policeman. He just looked like some hillbilly redneck vigilante. He saw my mate throw the egg and tried his best to apprehend us. He was following us and I did not want to drive dangerously to try get away from him. So I stopped and my mate got out. The rest of us stayed in the car. I was certainly not going to get into a fight over this.
The cops idea of bringing the evil egg fiend to justice was to punch him in the head, which sort of backfired when he got belted up quite severely before he was able to subdue my mate. At this stage pretty much every police car in town arrived and they were not too happy at one of their mates being inured, so they threw the book at all of us.
My mate was charged with assault for the eggings and assault causing grievous bodily harm to the cop. The rest of were not involved in relation to the assault of the police man, or even throwing an egg. So the charges they gave us were the best they could come up with. They needed to defame us as much as they could in order to make us look bad as witnesses in relation to the fight my mate had with the cop. Even so, my mate won the court case against the cop and the judge ruled the cop acted in an inappropriate matter. It did cost him around $20,000 though. He just pleaded guitly to the eggings and was ordered to pay $200 compensation to the victims of his eggings.
The whole incident was a big mistake, but there is no turning back time. So we just have to live with it.
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I was standing at the bus stop last week with the missus when a bunch of 'hard men' drove past and lobbed an orange at everyone, it missed but if I could get my hands on their laughing little scrote faces
Point is you shouldnt have gotten a record but a right hiding, little toerags driving around throwing eggs like cowards, and whats more your hard man mate obviously gave the police grief when he got caught caught, scum.
Rant over.
Point is you shouldnt have gotten a record but a right hiding, little toerags driving around throwing eggs like cowards, and whats more your hard man mate obviously gave the police grief when he got caught caught, scum.
Rant over.
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Dennis my understanding is that in Queensland if no conviction is recorded:
1. An employer could not access the fact that you were convicted.
2. Your are legally entitled (and should) answer any question by an employer/prospective employer regarding whether you have any conivictions, by stating that you have none. It is not a lie and it is not being dishonest, it is the reason that a judge decides not to record a conviction (ie he/she does not think the offence is serious enough to warrant future employment prospects being damaged.)
A conviction that is not recorded means that the public cannot access the fact that you were convicted. It does mean however that if you were later convicted of an offence, the prosecution could inform the court of your previous conviction as the court keeps a record of your sentence.
In short you do not have any convictions as far as the employer is concerned.
You should check with a lawyer, it is a pretty basic point so would not take too long to check.
Denning
1. An employer could not access the fact that you were convicted.
2. Your are legally entitled (and should) answer any question by an employer/prospective employer regarding whether you have any conivictions, by stating that you have none. It is not a lie and it is not being dishonest, it is the reason that a judge decides not to record a conviction (ie he/she does not think the offence is serious enough to warrant future employment prospects being damaged.)
A conviction that is not recorded means that the public cannot access the fact that you were convicted. It does mean however that if you were later convicted of an offence, the prosecution could inform the court of your previous conviction as the court keeps a record of your sentence.
In short you do not have any convictions as far as the employer is concerned.
You should check with a lawyer, it is a pretty basic point so would not take too long to check.
Denning
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I was standing at the bus stop last week with the missus when a bunch of 'hard men' drove past and lobbed an orange at everyone, it missed but if I could get my hands on their laughing little scrote faces
Point is you shouldnt have gotten a record but a right hiding, little toerags driving around throwing eggs like cowards, and whats more your hard man mate obviously gave the police grief when he got caught caught, scum.
Rant over
Point is you shouldnt have gotten a record but a right hiding, little toerags driving around throwing eggs like cowards, and whats more your hard man mate obviously gave the police grief when he got caught caught, scum.
Rant over
I have had crap thrown at me several times our of cars. Lucky for me they were a bad aim. A more deserving punishment for youngsters would be a good hiding rather than a life long tarnishing of their record. Giving out criminal records to kids for minor incidences isn't going to do anyone much good in the long run. Thanks Denning. I will check it out with a lawyer.
I'm from Liverpool and I got a job. Although they don't like me refueling the Aircraft, checking the tyres or handling the luggage.
Infact thy tell me just to sit down, shut up and when to lower the gear.
Gear...
Infact thy tell me just to sit down, shut up and when to lower the gear.
Gear...
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I'm with you Last Man Standing
This ex 737 training capt must have binned hundreds of applications and CVs when the candidate just couldn't be bothered to check spellings, grammar etc. Either attention to detail matters to you..or it doesn't! If you can't pay attention to your grammar, why would I believe that you'd be any better with fuel calcs or load-sheets? Sorry guys, like it or not, you are in a fiercely competitive environment, times are tough and they're going to get much,much tougher! Cheers bm