JAA Instrument Rating or FAA IR and Conversion to JAA

[Airbus Girl]

I did my multi in 6 hours in the US, my FAA single IR in minimum hours in the US then came back to UK to do the multi IR. I did a total of 8 hours training in the aircraft and passed my IR despite flying a route I had never done before. I think people are very dismissive of the FAA system but it is a real hands-on actual scenario when you do the flight test, with things thrown at you, like they would be in real life, and if your handling skills are good and you can think on your feet then you will have no problem doing the FAA and the JAA ratings. But its not for everyone.

I did my FAA ratings first then converted to JAA and now fly an airliner.

[corsair]

Corsair you must get grip. 50% of airlines are located in USA. 25% of the worlds airplanes is located in South California.

Actually emrts330. I never said boo against America. In fact I favour the American way of training and completely agree with you. I actually did some training there and have no complaints. My target is my personal knowledge of the standard of pilot I personally have come across from certain flying outfits particularly one in Spain.

The point being that a good, well trained pilot will pass any flight test in any country. So passing an 'easy' flight test is irrelevant to good pilots. So those of you who did pass their test in Spain needn't get all huffy. No one is saying you're bad pilots. You would undoubtedly have passed the test anywhere. But 'easy' flight tests do allow people through who really need more training. This isn't fair on them either. Oninsixtyrule, BigGrecian and I have all have come across poorly trained pilots from certain schools who passed the IR flight tests in Spain. That sounds like a pattern to me not simply a prejudice.

It's all very well being politically correct about it but throwing up your hands and saying

there's good and bad from every quarter.

is to ignore the realities.

This is simply not a case of 'my licence is better than yours' to characterise it as such is to miss the point completely.

[boogie-nicey]

Great lets all be friends then With that nice little warm glow feeling inside.

Come on lets knock this on the head now and move onto some other subject shall we. You've all made some good and worthy comments.

[benish]

I'd like to bring this topic back to life!

I have just completed the ATPL exams with Bristol, and I'm wanting to get on with the training.
I have not flown since late 2009 (due to getting the full 150hours needed and not having the time or money). I did my PPL with London aviation in Naples (as part of Multiflight's ab intio), which got me an FAA rating which I then converted to JAA after hour building.

Onto the CPL, my preferred route is to go out to EFT to do the JAA CPL as it works out slightly cheaper and the weather is far better at this time of year.
I contacted them earlier and they have let me know about the FAA IR CPL special which works out at around $22k. My original plan was to do my IR at multiflight.

With conversions and everything I have worked out that its going to cost around the same to go down the faa conversion route as it is to do the CPL over there and IR here, considering all is done in minimums.

I'd like a bit of advice to help me deliberate this.
Having hardly done any flying here would it be more beneficial to do the full lot here? Would I struggle when coming to the IR.
Does the fact that an FAA IR includes way more hours out balance the difficulty of the conversion?
What to do?!

[Gomrath]

Originally Posted by benish

I contacted them earlier and they have let me know about the FAA IR CPL special which works out at around $22k

Maybe I misunderstood your intentions but you seem to be thinking of a FAA CPL then convert? You say you have 150 hours? Are you aware that you require 250 hours for the FAA CPL - FAR 61.129 (unless you are considering a Part 141 course - but then it will be expensive).
Apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick.

[whistling turtle]

I did the FAA IR to JAA IR conversion and to be honest it all comes down to the individual as to whether it is something worth doing or not.

If for whatever reason be it work or pleasure that you want to have the ability to fly IFR in N reg aircraft as well as JAR land aircraft then go for it. Depending on the schools involved and your own aptitude for IFR operations for roughly the price of a full JAR IR course you could do an FAA IR and JAA IR conversion.
IF you just see getting an FAA IR and IR conversion to JAR as a means to save money then I would really think carefully. It's not a course of action suited to everyone.

I did a single engine FAA IR on glass in mid 09. For finance reasons I didn't do the conversion to a JAR multi IR untill last year.

I did the conversion in the UK on a round guage twin roughly a year after having passed the FAA single IR on glass. It was a reasonable step up from single engine to twin IFR ops and glass to analogue particularly after that time gap. Apart from that the main differences were NDB holds and the IFR ground planning which was a bit of a pain in the neck as the UK airspace system in relation to GA IFR operations is not nearly as user friendly as it is in the USA.

In the end I did about 17 hours in the FNPT II and 10 hours in the twin. My instructor for the conversion thought that I did very well and said that most people struggle with it and take longer. It is a bit awkward at times and at the end of the day you do two IR flight tests but on the other hand I have two IR's now and I am happy I did it the way that I did.

But some people don't really take to conversions and end up doing the whole JAR IFR course from scratch in the end. That did happen with another guy at the time and I have heard of it happening from other people too.

Weigh up the pros and cons and tread carefully. And if you do end up doing the conversion remember to have a good atitude, some people do have chips on their shoulder and biasis regarding FAA qualifications in Europe but working hard and having a good positive atitude will help negate that.

[jizzman]

BUMP

I have an important question. I did my training in the US.

I have 25 SE instrument and 10h simulator from USA.
6h ME, 1h ME instrument from USA.

I converted my licenes in Sweden 5 months ago, and I only recieved 5h(4h inst) ME, and 4h in the simulator ME.

How is that possbile when you need 15h ME to convert from FAA CPL ME IR to JAA CPL ME IR? I never got 15h ME when I came back.

Is it up to every country to make their own rules about this+ UK have 15h, what do we have in Sweden? I am totally lost!

[zondaracer]

The JARs are not legislation but rather an agreement. Not all members of the JAA implement every JAR. I am not sure if Sweden follows the 15H conversion rule or not. Did you also do any time in a simulator?

[jizzman]

I did 4h in a simulator and flew 5h for real.

Thats it.

Now I wonder if I can do it in Sweden like that or not. I wonder if the requirment UK have is for every JAR country or is it up to every country do decide? Very thankfull if someone could answer.

[Cobalt]

The JARs actually say

Originally Posted by JAR FCL 1.1016 (a)

An applicant for a JAR–FCL licence and IR, if applicable, already holding at least an equivalent licence issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA State shall meet all the requirements of JAR–FCL, except that the requirements of course duration, number of lessons and specific training hours may be reduced. The Authority may be guided as to the credits to be granted on the basis of a recommendation from an appropriate training organisation.

In the UK, the CAA just issued the "15 hour" rules.

In Germany, an FTO has to conduct a formal assessment, write to the LBA with a proposed training programme and get it approved, and then do whatever it is the LBA says.

What other countries do is left to them.

Under EASA, this will change. I haven't found anyting about conversion yet (only validation, which only lasts for a single year) - anybody got a reference?

[jizzman]

Okey, so you mean its up to very countries CAA do decide how to deal with it, and every JAR country will accept it?

[Cobalt]

As long it is JAR (which is not much longer...) the answer is yes, but "all requirements except course duration" means all theory exams and the skill test, otherwise it is not JAR compliant. Once the rating is issued in accordance with JAR-FCL, you are done.

In practice, it will be very difficult to get this done in a "country of convenience", since "mix and match" with state of licence issue, exams, and training does not really work unless both CAAs have an agreement how to deal with that. The JAR system really is a system of reasonably standardised nationally issued licences with mutual recognition, not a true European system (and EASA does not change this much, only the rules are now set in stone centrally and MUSST BE OBEHD, BEECAUSS SSSEY HAFE WEHS TOO MEK YOU OBEH in Cologne)

[Bernardo.andr]

JAA IR Conversion

If you already have a JAA CPL + JAA MEP but only a FAA SE or ME IR you can do your conversion in here (IR(A) Conversion Training | IR(A) Conversion Courses | Conversion Training | English | Flugskóli | Tækniskólinn - Skóli atvinnulífsins).

If you don't have a JAA CPL + JAA MEP you will have to take all 14 JAA ATPL Written Exams and do a JAA MEP or convert it from an FAA ME (I think).

Regards!