Interesting careers in aviation?
Thread Starter
Morning Crockroy,
There are plenty of ladies and gents on Pprune who will have been down the avenue you talk about. They probably reside on other threads, like Non Airline Transport Stuff and Rest of the World. It may be worth repeating your request there.
I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but I would advise that you'll need to get yourself a CPL and ME/IR, so you're looking at a fair amount of dosh. I would have thought - and again, there will be those who know better - that an FAA licence might be more appropriate for what you intend doing. If only because it's cheaper and a JAA licence is probably only better overall if you plan to fly in Europe.
I guess you could get the licences you need for about £45,000 (JAA) in the UK or $36,000 (FAA) out in the USA.
I once met an interesting guy out in Africa, who had flown in many African countries and had about 8 licences to his name; JAA, FAA, South African, Zimbabwean, Kenyan, Congolese, Tanzanian...you name it, he had one! At the time I met him, he was flying in and out of Baghdad. Rather him than me!
But as a general comment, I think your dream is achievable and commendable. I'd love to do it but will end up in the Airlines simply in order to earn sufficient to support my family. If I didn't have to do that, I'd also look to fly float planes around British Columbia!
There are plenty of ladies and gents on Pprune who will have been down the avenue you talk about. They probably reside on other threads, like Non Airline Transport Stuff and Rest of the World. It may be worth repeating your request there.
I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but I would advise that you'll need to get yourself a CPL and ME/IR, so you're looking at a fair amount of dosh. I would have thought - and again, there will be those who know better - that an FAA licence might be more appropriate for what you intend doing. If only because it's cheaper and a JAA licence is probably only better overall if you plan to fly in Europe.
I guess you could get the licences you need for about £45,000 (JAA) in the UK or $36,000 (FAA) out in the USA.I once met an interesting guy out in Africa, who had flown in many African countries and had about 8 licences to his name; JAA, FAA, South African, Zimbabwean, Kenyan, Congolese, Tanzanian...you name it, he had one! At the time I met him, he was flying in and out of Baghdad. Rather him than me!
But as a general comment, I think your dream is achievable and commendable. I'd love to do it but will end up in the Airlines simply in order to earn sufficient to support my family. If I didn't have to do that, I'd also look to fly float planes around British Columbia!
On the subject of BAS, it is part of NERC (the Natural Environment Research Council) - a UK government funded research body. It operates 7 aircraft for a combination of direct research, and research support - a BAe-146, a Dornier 228, four twin Otters, and a Dash-7. It is safe to assume that none of these are employing entry level pilots but on the other hand they do all employ people in other support roles as well - airborne scientists, ops management, etc.
BAS jobs are advertised here, and there's details of the other two aircraft here. They're part of a much bigger European network of research aircraft which you can read about here.
This sort of flying is a long way from airline ops, but (particularly if you have a scientific bent) arguably at-least as enjoyable and worthwhile. It's doubtlful that the salaries will ever be as good as on the airlines, but they're still pretty good.
Another interesting company to look at is Directflight who operate one of the NERC aircraft for them (the BAe-146) along with a couple of fisheries protection aircraft and the Shetlands inter-islands service. Its noticeable that they have very little turnover of pilots, which must say something about what they're like to work for.
It's worth bearing in mind however that most of these non-airline operators are looking for something rather more than just an ATPL. Whether it's faith (MAF), teamwork and low-flying skills (FAAM), intelligent autonomy (BAS) they're going to look at a lot more on your CV than just hours and licence(s).
For myself, I've working in aviation all my life, and have yet to work in the airline industry, nor have I any real desire to. On the other hand, being a pilot whilst an important part of what I am, is only a minority part - science, engineering, management and airworthiness are more at the core of my job.
G
BAS jobs are advertised here, and there's details of the other two aircraft here. They're part of a much bigger European network of research aircraft which you can read about here.
This sort of flying is a long way from airline ops, but (particularly if you have a scientific bent) arguably at-least as enjoyable and worthwhile. It's doubtlful that the salaries will ever be as good as on the airlines, but they're still pretty good.
Another interesting company to look at is Directflight who operate one of the NERC aircraft for them (the BAe-146) along with a couple of fisheries protection aircraft and the Shetlands inter-islands service. Its noticeable that they have very little turnover of pilots, which must say something about what they're like to work for.
It's worth bearing in mind however that most of these non-airline operators are looking for something rather more than just an ATPL. Whether it's faith (MAF), teamwork and low-flying skills (FAAM), intelligent autonomy (BAS) they're going to look at a lot more on your CV than just hours and licence(s).
For myself, I've working in aviation all my life, and have yet to work in the airline industry, nor have I any real desire to. On the other hand, being a pilot whilst an important part of what I am, is only a minority part - science, engineering, management and airworthiness are more at the core of my job.
G
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You could start you aviation career in aircraft engineering, say with Virgin or BA then move into flying. That way you will know a lot about the airliners that you intend to fly one day.
BA have a LAE training programme which allows those with A Level maths and physics grade C minimum to join the airline and train to be at B1 or B2 LAE on their jets. Alternatively you could join Kingston university on the Aircraft Engineering degree course which also involves training at BA LHR and if you like what you see and BA like you then you could be in job that involves determining just before departure if an Airbus is fit to fly with ''Compressor Vane'' ECAM messages or why the manual operation of the 767 outflow valve has failed prior to an ETOPS trip which means the crew may have to follow the non ETOPS 60 minute route across the Atlantic. A 747 destined for the Far East returns to stand unable to start no 2 engine you are the LAE with 747 B1 CRS and you have to find the cause and maybe replace a component with the technicians and try an engine start whilst 300 pax and crew watch. You could become a B2 LAE and deal with auto pilot faults 30 min prior to push back with no standby aircraft and the local weather is RVR 100 metres, cancel the service? No you have to find a fix and you are the only B2 so you’re on your own.
Some days I cant believe this is my job other days I wish it wasn’t but overall I'm glad I have been given the opportunity to learn how an airliner works. You get staff travel and approx. 50K [after many years] for your efforts.
BA have a LAE training programme which allows those with A Level maths and physics grade C minimum to join the airline and train to be at B1 or B2 LAE on their jets. Alternatively you could join Kingston university on the Aircraft Engineering degree course which also involves training at BA LHR and if you like what you see and BA like you then you could be in job that involves determining just before departure if an Airbus is fit to fly with ''Compressor Vane'' ECAM messages or why the manual operation of the 767 outflow valve has failed prior to an ETOPS trip which means the crew may have to follow the non ETOPS 60 minute route across the Atlantic. A 747 destined for the Far East returns to stand unable to start no 2 engine you are the LAE with 747 B1 CRS and you have to find the cause and maybe replace a component with the technicians and try an engine start whilst 300 pax and crew watch. You could become a B2 LAE and deal with auto pilot faults 30 min prior to push back with no standby aircraft and the local weather is RVR 100 metres, cancel the service? No you have to find a fix and you are the only B2 so you’re on your own.
Some days I cant believe this is my job other days I wish it wasn’t but overall I'm glad I have been given the opportunity to learn how an airliner works. You get staff travel and approx. 50K [after many years] for your efforts.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: in a hotel
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a great thread.
After I qualified I became an instructor. Then went to Germany Para dropping for the British Army(Username) in the Turbine Islander, and what a blast it was. That got me the job flying Trislanders around the Channel Islands on schedualed Pax Ops. Single crew in all weathers. They are the crews who should be earning the big bucks, tough job, the only place I have experienced 40knots of fog, usually right across!!!
Now? Corporate work on the Citation XL. Interesting People, interesting places, lots of time off and a fat pay packet. Love it.
But I still hanker after the romance and adventure of doing something completely different such as BAS.
Not sure I could take the pay cut tho.
Col
After I qualified I became an instructor. Then went to Germany Para dropping for the British Army(Username) in the Turbine Islander, and what a blast it was. That got me the job flying Trislanders around the Channel Islands on schedualed Pax Ops. Single crew in all weathers. They are the crews who should be earning the big bucks, tough job, the only place I have experienced 40knots of fog, usually right across!!!
Now? Corporate work on the Citation XL. Interesting People, interesting places, lots of time off and a fat pay packet. Love it.
But I still hanker after the romance and adventure of doing something completely different such as BAS.
Not sure I could take the pay cut tho.
Col
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fantastic thread - has really given me something to think about. Currently jobhunting, and have been limiting myself to certain types of flying, but I realise now that perhaps I'm trying to progress a little too fast, and I should enjoy the 'journey' with some of the jobs listed above.
For those with just a PPL....
Between my PPL and CPL, I built a lot of hours by flying for a gliding club, towing the aircraft up. I found out about the job from a conversation when I was working the desk at a local flight school, so I fired off a CV and a very enthusiastic covering letter (I even put in a photo of the tailwheel aircraft I had flown), got called in for a checkflight, and was later offered the position.
I flew from February to October, starting off on the Piper Cub, then onto the Robins, and finally the mighty Pawnee (which, on my first flight - solo because there's only one seat - was actually off the ground before I had full throttle in!!!). There were two other tuggies working with me, and apart from a few small niggles, we seemed to share the flying quite evenly without trouble.
There was a lot more than just flying - when we were on the ground, we needed to look after the aircraft as well as helping to run the launchpoint. It was unpaid, although there was an offer of a space in a caravan (I turned it down and stayed at the local hostel).
I think I clocked up about 250 hours over the Summer (and well over a thousand flights). It helped me improve my landings tremendously, and also gave me a v good lookout amongst other skills.
I'd recommend ringing around gliding clubs now and asking who deals with their tug pilot recruitment, then get a CV and covering letter sent out asap. It's good experience, it's brilliant for networking (a lot of airline pilots enjoy gliding), and even better its FREE flying and means you won't have to fork out to hourbuild.
Hope that's of use.
For those with just a PPL....
Between my PPL and CPL, I built a lot of hours by flying for a gliding club, towing the aircraft up. I found out about the job from a conversation when I was working the desk at a local flight school, so I fired off a CV and a very enthusiastic covering letter (I even put in a photo of the tailwheel aircraft I had flown), got called in for a checkflight, and was later offered the position.
I flew from February to October, starting off on the Piper Cub, then onto the Robins, and finally the mighty Pawnee (which, on my first flight - solo because there's only one seat - was actually off the ground before I had full throttle in!!!). There were two other tuggies working with me, and apart from a few small niggles, we seemed to share the flying quite evenly without trouble.
There was a lot more than just flying - when we were on the ground, we needed to look after the aircraft as well as helping to run the launchpoint. It was unpaid, although there was an offer of a space in a caravan (I turned it down and stayed at the local hostel).
I think I clocked up about 250 hours over the Summer (and well over a thousand flights). It helped me improve my landings tremendously, and also gave me a v good lookout amongst other skills.
I'd recommend ringing around gliding clubs now and asking who deals with their tug pilot recruitment, then get a CV and covering letter sent out asap. It's good experience, it's brilliant for networking (a lot of airline pilots enjoy gliding), and even better its FREE flying and means you won't have to fork out to hourbuild.
Hope that's of use.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: bedford
Age: 65
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spent some time doing 'bank runs' up to the Namibian/Angolan border. Real boys own stuff and the most enjoyable flying I've done. A few years ago now and still in the business but nothing will ever match it.
