All this talk of loans...why?
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All this talk of loans...why?
Im just wondering why everyone seems to WANT to get a loan to start training?
Im 18, working 50 hour weeks driving FLT's for £24k a year give or take. Now, the way i see it is, shove £12k in the bank for 4 years and then i have myself a fATPL. I could go to HSBC tomorrow and borrow some huge ammount of money against my parents house but then i will have to pay it off for the next...25 years? The interest is HUGE on that ammount.
I dont really know whether i am having a little rant here, or i am just very confused or misunderstanding something, so i would like your opinions on MY 'plan' of working for the next 4 years instead of working 8 years later in life to pay the interest alone off.
Im 18, working 50 hour weeks driving FLT's for £24k a year give or take. Now, the way i see it is, shove £12k in the bank for 4 years and then i have myself a fATPL. I could go to HSBC tomorrow and borrow some huge ammount of money against my parents house but then i will have to pay it off for the next...25 years? The interest is HUGE on that ammount.
I dont really know whether i am having a little rant here, or i am just very confused or misunderstanding something, so i would like your opinions on MY 'plan' of working for the next 4 years instead of working 8 years later in life to pay the interest alone off.
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It's not a bad plan by any stretch - but don't forget that Mr Brown likes to dip his chubby fingered hands into your pay packet every month and unless you are really committed, you won't want to be living on pot noodles and staying in every night for 4 years. However, I also managed to fund my training without a bank loan or equity withdrawal and it saved me a few sleepless nights 
Good luck to you.
Good luck to you.
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You're fortunate enough that you're 18.....an extra 4 years probably won't make a difference to you but to some people it can be a significant percentage of what is left of their career.
Also if you borrow the money and get into the job market earlier you will be four years further up the seniority list which might be helpful if it all hits the fan.
Still, with recession looming then maybe waiting 4 years might be a good idea right now..
Also if you borrow the money and get into the job market earlier you will be four years further up the seniority list which might be helpful if it all hits the fan.
Still, with recession looming then maybe waiting 4 years might be a good idea right now..
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If only it was that simple sparks!
I really cant see how youd get by, saving 12k a year. Roughly speaking from your 24k salary, you will see about 18k. Over the course of the year you will slap 12k into the bank and you have got 6k to live off for a year. That would barely cover rent/mortgage - nevermind bills, food, luxuries, social fund etc
If you are still living at home, then thats great as I expect any board you pay is waaaay less than renting your own place. But then you might want (or even have) a car and let me tell you, they cost an arm and a leg - really caught myself out with that one!!!
Living at home, without your own car - I think you could manage it - but would you want to live like that for four straight years?
As for the loan repayments, there is a fixed repayment plan over 9 years commencing a year after you finish training - (With HSBC). So you finish training May 08, by May 2018 your loan should be gone!!!
In the end its up to you and whether you want to bite the bullet and get on with it, or work hard and pay for it outright further down the line. I know which option I would choose - and in fact what option I chose!
All the best mate with whatever you do!
JB
I really cant see how youd get by, saving 12k a year. Roughly speaking from your 24k salary, you will see about 18k. Over the course of the year you will slap 12k into the bank and you have got 6k to live off for a year. That would barely cover rent/mortgage - nevermind bills, food, luxuries, social fund etc
If you are still living at home, then thats great as I expect any board you pay is waaaay less than renting your own place. But then you might want (or even have) a car and let me tell you, they cost an arm and a leg - really caught myself out with that one!!!
Living at home, without your own car - I think you could manage it - but would you want to live like that for four straight years?
As for the loan repayments, there is a fixed repayment plan over 9 years commencing a year after you finish training - (With HSBC). So you finish training May 08, by May 2018 your loan should be gone!!!
In the end its up to you and whether you want to bite the bullet and get on with it, or work hard and pay for it outright further down the line. I know which option I would choose - and in fact what option I chose!
All the best mate with whatever you do!
JB
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Living at home without a car for four years as an 18 YO is nothing compared to living at home without a car for four years as a 20 YO with an fATPL and £50K debt with no job while watching currency fade away. His numbers may not be realistic, but the approach is to be applauded.
Too right Adios.
I've given this advice many times over the years. If all you want to do is fly then forget University with its £3k a year fee plus living expenses. Get some good A-levels to show you're not thick then get a job - in fact get two. Stay at home, stuff the money in the bank/ISA and as the years trickle by start learning the ATPL course.
It really shouldn't be that hard to put away a £1000 a month as long as your parents are supportive and you get a half decent job plus the weekend bar work.
At the tender age of 22 you would have saved £48k plus compounded interest of £4k. That *IS* enough to do the Modular PPL - CPL - Multi IR and ATPL exams with a £4k contingency fund. Perfect.
So by 23 you've cracked it and you owe nothing. By comparison your mate who went to University is now in his first year of some mundane graduate training position earning £15k a year whilst looking at his £12k student loan. He's having to pay the rent + bills on a shared room as he had to move 50 miles away from home to get the job. He still hankers after persuing his flying dream - its just not looking possible for another 5 years..
Good luck, Sparks - 4 years will probably be the perfect time to sit out the house price crash and recession and airline contraction. You'll be fine.
WWW
I've given this advice many times over the years. If all you want to do is fly then forget University with its £3k a year fee plus living expenses. Get some good A-levels to show you're not thick then get a job - in fact get two. Stay at home, stuff the money in the bank/ISA and as the years trickle by start learning the ATPL course.
It really shouldn't be that hard to put away a £1000 a month as long as your parents are supportive and you get a half decent job plus the weekend bar work.
At the tender age of 22 you would have saved £48k plus compounded interest of £4k. That *IS* enough to do the Modular PPL - CPL - Multi IR and ATPL exams with a £4k contingency fund. Perfect.
So by 23 you've cracked it and you owe nothing. By comparison your mate who went to University is now in his first year of some mundane graduate training position earning £15k a year whilst looking at his £12k student loan. He's having to pay the rent + bills on a shared room as he had to move 50 miles away from home to get the job. He still hankers after persuing his flying dream - its just not looking possible for another 5 years..
Good luck, Sparks - 4 years will probably be the perfect time to sit out the house price crash and recession and airline contraction. You'll be fine.
WWW
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Why not get cracking with it now and start your PPL. You can then be doing your hour building whilst working studying ATPL's.
You might get a cheap/non equity share in something interesting or some other opportunity may crop up. You will build quality hours over a longer period of time in different weather, seasons etc. Maybe a few trips into Europe. Much better than just paying out for a load of hours in as short a time as possible over in the states.
You may well end up having to fund a type rating. If your already paying a large chunk of your salary on a loan you may well struggle to finance this.
You might get a cheap/non equity share in something interesting or some other opportunity may crop up. You will build quality hours over a longer period of time in different weather, seasons etc. Maybe a few trips into Europe. Much better than just paying out for a load of hours in as short a time as possible over in the states.
You may well end up having to fund a type rating. If your already paying a large chunk of your salary on a loan you may well struggle to finance this.
Wow, I wish I had been earning £24,000 p.a. driving a FLT at the age of 18! 
Instead, I spent 5 years at Uni/Law School and was 27 before I earnt £24,000 p.a. as a fully qualified solicitor, carrying over £30,000 in student debt. 
So, count yourself lucky mate! You are in a great position to earn enough money to pay for your ATPL without getting a loan, but I would seriously doubt whether you'll be able to live on £6,000 a year. Give yourself a bit longer, enjoy your youth a bit more (I certainly enjoyed myself at your age!
). Otherwise you'll have a miserable time for 4 years, finally get a job and by the age of 30 you'll be whinging like most of the seasoned pilots on this site...
[did I say that out loud?]
IMHO do the ATPL when you're in your early to mid-twenties. In the meantime you can research all the different options for courses in the UK and abroad, save up your money, and even do your PPL to see whether you actually have an aptitude for flying. Who knows, you may decide you don't want to be a commercial pilot! There's no rush!!!
[I'm off to do an FLT course!]
Instead, I spent 5 years at Uni/Law School and was 27 before I earnt £24,000 p.a. as a fully qualified solicitor, carrying over £30,000 in student debt. So, count yourself lucky mate! You are in a great position to earn enough money to pay for your ATPL without getting a loan, but I would seriously doubt whether you'll be able to live on £6,000 a year. Give yourself a bit longer, enjoy your youth a bit more (I certainly enjoyed myself at your age!
). Otherwise you'll have a miserable time for 4 years, finally get a job and by the age of 30 you'll be whinging like most of the seasoned pilots on this site... [did I say that out loud?]IMHO do the ATPL when you're in your early to mid-twenties. In the meantime you can research all the different options for courses in the UK and abroad, save up your money, and even do your PPL to see whether you actually have an aptitude for flying. Who knows, you may decide you don't want to be a commercial pilot! There's no rush!!!
[I'm off to do an FLT course!]
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Thank you for your replies, an interesting mix of views.
My figures may not work out, but i am paying minimal rent at home but also running a car. I think i should still be able to do this, as long as i am careful with my money.
I have already started my PPL and hope to have this completed by the end of the summer.
Im not only thinking of saving for however long and then going for an fATPL but i am also thinking of going modular over the next 4/5 years and spending my money as i get it as such to get to a CPL IR with an FI.
Alot to think about but i just dont want to have to pay any interest to anyone over any period of time, even if it means working 7 days a week and living on the skint for a while.
My figures may not work out, but i am paying minimal rent at home but also running a car. I think i should still be able to do this, as long as i am careful with my money.
I have already started my PPL and hope to have this completed by the end of the summer.
Im not only thinking of saving for however long and then going for an fATPL but i am also thinking of going modular over the next 4/5 years and spending my money as i get it as such to get to a CPL IR with an FI.
Alot to think about but i just dont want to have to pay any interest to anyone over any period of time, even if it means working 7 days a week and living on the skint for a while.
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MikeHotel
I wouldnt count myself lucky as such, i am working 45 hours a week, working hard too believe it or not
Also trying to do a college course at the same time, hence my other thread, and a ppl shoved on top of that also.
The job is ****e, but the money is good. At this stage thats the only thing that is important to me, money. I could probably go and do something that i enjoy more for £12k a year but that isnt going to pay for anything.
But like i said, im considering going CPL IR FI route to "spice things up" a bit
I wouldnt count myself lucky as such, i am working 45 hours a week, working hard too believe it or not
Also trying to do a college course at the same time, hence my other thread, and a ppl shoved on top of that also.
The job is ****e, but the money is good. At this stage thats the only thing that is important to me, money. I could probably go and do something that i enjoy more for £12k a year but that isnt going to pay for anything.
But like i said, im considering going CPL IR FI route to "spice things up" a bit
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Chickens..................count..................hatch...... ............
I've been trying to kid myself with similar rosy-tinted views of my financial future for the 20 years since I was your age kid. Life has this rather annoying habit of throwing spanners in the works when you least expect it. Whilst I admire your clarity of vision and determination, be very careful about expecting things to just keep running along the way they are now.
As has been said already, you are tremendously fortunate to find yourself in a very strong financial position at such a young age, but you need to realise that whilst this may be normal for you (or even your friends), you are going to meet many, many people who have come from a vastly different financial background. For those guys, training without a loan is not an option at all.
There are FO's out there earning less than you in their first full-time flying job, which in itself is a substantial improvement on their previous earnings, who are almost 20 years your senior, with families and major finacial commitments. Just bear that in mind when you eventually start your career, and I'm sure you'll get off to a good start.
Other than that, I'm sure we all wish you luck.
I've been trying to kid myself with similar rosy-tinted views of my financial future for the 20 years since I was your age kid. Life has this rather annoying habit of throwing spanners in the works when you least expect it. Whilst I admire your clarity of vision and determination, be very careful about expecting things to just keep running along the way they are now.
As has been said already, you are tremendously fortunate to find yourself in a very strong financial position at such a young age, but you need to realise that whilst this may be normal for you (or even your friends), you are going to meet many, many people who have come from a vastly different financial background. For those guys, training without a loan is not an option at all.
There are FO's out there earning less than you in their first full-time flying job, which in itself is a substantial improvement on their previous earnings, who are almost 20 years your senior, with families and major finacial commitments. Just bear that in mind when you eventually start your career, and I'm sure you'll get off to a good start.
Other than that, I'm sure we all wish you luck.
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SparksFlyHigh,
I gotta say it dude, WELL DONE
Your attitude is correct. Getting a loan is easy, getting a flying job isn't !
You have 'youf' on your side and by the sounds of it plenty of enthusiasm.
Don't let any b**ger grind you down.
Even if it took you a little longer (say 7 years) at 25 you will still be the right age.
UTF
I gotta say it dude, WELL DONE
Your attitude is correct. Getting a loan is easy, getting a flying job isn't !
You have 'youf' on your side and by the sounds of it plenty of enthusiasm.
Don't let any b**ger grind you down.
Even if it took you a little longer (say 7 years) at 25 you will still be the right age.
UTF
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I appriciate circumstances may change for the better or worse and i am anticipating this.
I have already had my first "spanner" in the form of a pretty serious RTA. Been signed off work for a while and it effected my flying negatively in some respects but i survived and although it dented my flying funds significantly, i had to get back on the road asap to get to work.
Im determined and will do anything i can to get to where i want to be. More spanners will be thrown at me but thats good...i learn more from it than anything else.
I dont have money on my side but i have the time and the will so lets see what i can make of it
I have already had my first "spanner" in the form of a pretty serious RTA. Been signed off work for a while and it effected my flying negatively in some respects but i survived and although it dented my flying funds significantly, i had to get back on the road asap to get to work.
Im determined and will do anything i can to get to where i want to be. More spanners will be thrown at me but thats good...i learn more from it than anything else.
I dont have money on my side but i have the time and the will so lets see what i can make of it
yeah and I wonder how many of those poorly paid F/O's actually paid for the career the hard way? I bet plenty got a blank cheque from daddy! good on you I say, you are working bloody hard to make your own dreams come true and not wasting a few years doing 'a degree in golf course design' and then scrounging 60k off a family member. With youre attitude I have no doubt you will succeed.
Hmmmm, I thought my post was pretty encouraging. 
And I'm sorry to hear about the RTA. That's bad luck and would knock anyone for 6. I had one too and it's a nightmare. So I hope you recover well.
But, get real, you are lucky to be earning £24K at 18 years of age driving a FLT! After 5 years of hard graft after I turned 18, paying vast amounts of money to study stuff that makes the ATPL Air Law look like an entertaining Beano Comic, my starting wage as a solicitor working more than 45 hours a week was £14K at the age of 24. That's 6 years down the line from where you are! Imagine the size of FLT you could be driving by then!
Joking aside, my point was merely that you are in a great position to plan ahead. You've got age and earning power on your side. By the time you're my age you'll be sitting in the LHS...and that's even if you only finish the ATPL when you're in your mid-twenties. As it happens, you've said you're going to do things over the next 5 years using the modular route, and that's exactly how I'd approach things if I were you.
Good luck
And I'm sorry to hear about the RTA. That's bad luck and would knock anyone for 6. I had one too and it's a nightmare. So I hope you recover well.But, get real, you are lucky to be earning £24K at 18 years of age driving a FLT! After 5 years of hard graft after I turned 18, paying vast amounts of money to study stuff that makes the ATPL Air Law look like an entertaining Beano Comic, my starting wage as a solicitor working more than 45 hours a week was £14K at the age of 24. That's 6 years down the line from where you are! Imagine the size of FLT you could be driving by then!
Joking aside, my point was merely that you are in a great position to plan ahead. You've got age and earning power on your side. By the time you're my age you'll be sitting in the LHS...and that's even if you only finish the ATPL when you're in your mid-twenties. As it happens, you've said you're going to do things over the next 5 years using the modular route, and that's exactly how I'd approach things if I were you.
Good luck
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MikeHotel
Sorry for the unintentially negative tone in my reply to your post. I appriciate that i have landed a decent paid job for my age and that is lucky but i just dont want it to seem like i have won the lottery That reminds me, i need to buy a ticket or 10
"As it happens, you've said you're going to do things over the next 5 years using the modular route, and that's exactly how I'd approach things if I were you."
I was hoping this was the right choice and it makes me feel more confident about myself and plans hearing this advice from other people too. So, thank you
Sorry for the unintentially negative tone in my reply to your post. I appriciate that i have landed a decent paid job for my age and that is lucky but i just dont want it to seem like i have won the lottery
That reminds me, i need to buy a ticket or 10"As it happens, you've said you're going to do things over the next 5 years using the modular route, and that's exactly how I'd approach things if I were you."
I was hoping this was the right choice and it makes me feel more confident about myself and plans hearing this advice from other people too. So, thank you
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But what about me, Im 17 tomorrow...fantasise about being a pilot some day.
Live in a low incomed household (no parents income for me) And the job id be best as is accounting..... i dont think you can get a job at accountanct without degree can you?
Forget Uni, too much debt... i want a good job that enables me to have enough saved up by my 22nd birthday to LIVE THE DREAM!!!
Live in a low incomed household (no parents income for me) And the job id be best as is accounting..... i dont think you can get a job at accountanct without degree can you?
Forget Uni, too much debt... i want a good job that enables me to have enough saved up by my 22nd birthday to LIVE THE DREAM!!!
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Accounts Job
Hi Anderson8
Yes you can get an accountant job without a degree.
To become a qualified accountant without a degree you will have to get the AAT qualification. Heres their web address : -
http://www.aat.co.uk/
They should be able to advise you who is recruiting in your area.
Once you have the AAT you can then go on to become a Chartered or Certified accountant.
Good luck
Steve
Yes you can get an accountant job without a degree.
To become a qualified accountant without a degree you will have to get the AAT qualification. Heres their web address : -
http://www.aat.co.uk/
They should be able to advise you who is recruiting in your area.
Once you have the AAT you can then go on to become a Chartered or Certified accountant.
Good luck
Steve