Instructor Rating Or Type Rating And Line Training
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Instructor Rating Or Type Rating And Line Training
Im soon to start my cpl and wondering what is best route to pick to get a jet job. Should I pay for instructors rating after completing cpl/IR or should I look into the various organisations who offer type rating and line training. I have seen some companies offering 300 hours. Is this worth while or not, any help on this subject would be great.
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So what you're asking is;
£7k v £20k + 300hrs line training.
And which one will lead you to a job/jet job quickest?
A £7k Instructors course should land you a job straight away even in todays credit crunch environment.
Having 300hrs line training on a A320 on the other hand is 200hrs short of the industry standard.
From what I have read a A320 TR and 500hrs line training put you one step ahead of the SSTR A320 guys ... but there are still no guarantees. I'm not sure what the going rate for line training is but a TR on a B737/A320 will set you back £20k for sure.
Good luck.
(I'm guessing you're looking at airline jets? BizJets are an option? TP maybe?)
£7k v £20k + 300hrs line training.
And which one will lead you to a job/jet job quickest?
A £7k Instructors course should land you a job straight away even in todays credit crunch environment.
Having 300hrs line training on a A320 on the other hand is 200hrs short of the industry standard.
From what I have read a A320 TR and 500hrs line training put you one step ahead of the SSTR A320 guys ... but there are still no guarantees. I'm not sure what the going rate for line training is but a TR on a B737/A320 will set you back £20k for sure.
Good luck.
(I'm guessing you're looking at airline jets? BizJets are an option? TP maybe?)
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Please don't pay for line flying. It is a crazy thing to do as you are paying to do a job that someone who is qualified to do should be getting paid for. If more and more people decide to do this sort of thing it will help to destroy the industry that some have worked hard to get into. It is not only a waste of money as there are no guarantees but it is also immoral. Do it the right way, it may be harder and take a bit longer but at least it will be because you have the required skills and determination to succeed in the industry. The following link is what is happening at an airline that Eagle Jet use as the company are lowering the conditions of service and using cheap labour as they are discovering that some fools are willing to work for nothing or even pay to work.
http://www.ifalpa.org/jobs/recruitme...%20Morocco.pdf
http://www.ifalpa.org/jobs/recruitme...%20Morocco.pdf
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If you are only looking at instructing as a "route to get a jet job" perhaps you would be better looking at a type rating. Instructing is a great way of improving your skill, confidence and professionalism as a pilot, but only if you approach it with commitment and enthusiasm. If you approach instructing, as many do, as simply a way of getting a jet job by gaining a few extra hours then you will become disillusioned very quickly if the jet job is not as forthcoming as you might have hoped. That is unfair to the school you work for, the students you teach and ultimately yourself.
If you want to instruct, and approach it with the right attitude you will reap the benefits. Everyone i know who has taken the instructor path and approached it in the manner i've mentioned have airline jobs, and have all excelled throughout their training. Many, including myself still instruct when we can aswell!
If you want to instruct, and approach it with the right attitude you will reap the benefits. Everyone i know who has taken the instructor path and approached it in the manner i've mentioned have airline jobs, and have all excelled throughout their training. Many, including myself still instruct when we can aswell!
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I agree with what robmcn said about instructing but not about the type rating. This is more of a dilemma than paying for line training which is just plain wrong, as it is now pretty much the norm for people to pay for their type rating. Unless you have a job at the end it can be a huge waste of money. It just goes to show that if enough people do it it becomes the norm. I think it used to be rare to have to fork out for a type rating but now everyone does it, imagine if gaining line flying experience went the same way which it will if everyone started doing it.
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what people dont know here , if you pay for a line training, and they kick you out after you 150-300hours, you have to redo the line training in another company 
.
each company has his own line training.
so whatever you do, you have to do a line training for each company.
paying a line training, is a scam...it 's A SCAM!!!!
paying eaglejet for a line training, you will have to pay again when joining a new company.
airline want free copilots (they want FREE monkeys who pay them to work), and they make you belive you may have a job after line training you pay. it s all fake!!!!it's a lie...
THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU, THEY WANT YOUR MONEY AND THEY WILL KICK YOU OUT, FOR ANOTHER IDIOT WHO IS GOING TO PAY THEM, AND SO ON...IT' S A PYRAMID SCHEME!!!YOU WILL NOT EVEN FINISH YOUR LINE TRAINING SO MUCH MONEY THEY CAN CASH THIS WAY WIT NEW COPILOTS PAYING EVERYDAY...
.each company has his own line training.
so whatever you do, you have to do a line training for each company.
paying a line training, is a scam...it 's A SCAM!!!!
paying eaglejet for a line training, you will have to pay again when joining a new company.
airline want free copilots (they want FREE monkeys who pay them to work), and they make you belive you may have a job after line training you pay. it s all fake!!!!it's a lie...
THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU, THEY WANT YOUR MONEY AND THEY WILL KICK YOU OUT, FOR ANOTHER IDIOT WHO IS GOING TO PAY THEM, AND SO ON...IT' S A PYRAMID SCHEME!!!YOU WILL NOT EVEN FINISH YOUR LINE TRAINING SO MUCH MONEY THEY CAN CASH THIS WAY WIT NEW COPILOTS PAYING EVERYDAY...
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Well line training in this context simply means hours on type, line training just gives it a more marketable name, but i don't see how why it is considered so morally objectionable. An airline is there to make money, and if someone is willing to pay that money then they are within their rights to offer the training, provided that the individual is licenced to fly that aircraft and that the captain is a line training captain.
The issue is one of whether this kind of training is going to be more beneficial than other ways of building experience. I don't think that it is and i am sure that most airlines would agree. But i would prefer someone to pay for a type rating and hours on type than instruct when they view it as some kind of necessary evil on their way to a jet job.
The issue is one of whether this kind of training is going to be more beneficial than other ways of building experience. I don't think that it is and i am sure that most airlines would agree. But i would prefer someone to pay for a type rating and hours on type than instruct when they view it as some kind of necessary evil on their way to a jet job.
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I am always amazed when I hear someone defending this type of thing. Are people really that narrow minded that they see this as something that does no harm to the industry. What you are saying is that it is OK to pay for 300 hours of line training. That is 300 hours that the company does not have to employ an FO, they actually get paid by some fool to fly their plane. What you are saying is basically that training captains are the only ones who should get paid, if every airline did this where would it leave us? If it did end up like that I guess d*ck heads like you would decide to undercut the training captain so that you could be one and that would be ok as you are willing to do it. THINK ABOUT IT, IT IS INSANE!!!!
It is an impossible situation as so many do it others think they have to to get the upper hand on the job market, you don't and if you don't but put in the effort you will probably end up in a better job where they don't take the pi*s as much. I have never paid for anything other than my flight training costs to get to CPL and then ATP when I had the hours (FAA) and now I find myself in a situation that is becoming very rare, almost unheard of in Europe. I am actually getting paid a full salary and allowances, not only to fly, but also during all of the training, that I don't pay anything for, on an Airbus. AS IT
SHOULD BE. I expect the company will not keep this up for much longer as they will eventually let d*ck heads pay for it themselves. Eventually every airline will expect people to turn up with 300 hours of line training and a type rating and then work for almost nothing as there are people willing to do it so it is withing their rights apparently, wouldn't that be nice. 
Think about what you are saying. I really don't get your line of thought. If you can explain how an airline having someone pay to be a FO is not damaging to the industry please explain as I would love to understand.
I instructed for a bit and I hated it but I never gave a student anything less than 100% of my attention or effort. If lots of people decided to instruct just so they could get some hours but only on the condition that they paid £10 per hour as they were getting aircraft time would that be OK. You as an instructor would find yourself without work unless you paid to do it. But thats OK as schools are there to make money, isn't it?
It is an impossible situation as so many do it others think they have to to get the upper hand on the job market, you don't and if you don't but put in the effort you will probably end up in a better job where they don't take the pi*s as much. I have never paid for anything other than my flight training costs to get to CPL and then ATP when I had the hours (FAA) and now I find myself in a situation that is becoming very rare, almost unheard of in Europe. I am actually getting paid a full salary and allowances, not only to fly, but also during all of the training, that I don't pay anything for, on an Airbus. AS IT
SHOULD BE. I expect the company will not keep this up for much longer as they will eventually let d*ck heads pay for it themselves. Eventually every airline will expect people to turn up with 300 hours of line training and a type rating and then work for almost nothing as there are people willing to do it so it is withing their rights apparently, wouldn't that be nice. Think about what you are saying. I really don't get your line of thought. If you can explain how an airline having someone pay to be a FO is not damaging to the industry please explain as I would love to understand.
I instructed for a bit and I hated it but I never gave a student anything less than 100% of my attention or effort. If lots of people decided to instruct just so they could get some hours but only on the condition that they paid £10 per hour as they were getting aircraft time would that be OK. You as an instructor would find yourself without work unless you paid to do it. But thats OK as schools are there to make money, isn't it?
Last edited by scooby79; 16th Apr 2008 at 00:09.
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These schemes are complete exploitation of pilots. Its very sad that there seems to be no shortgage of desperate people willing to sign up to them. I cant think of any other profession in the world where people 'pay to work' in a similar fashion.
I had a couple of interviews recently and it was very interesting to note the interviewers(management pilots) opinions of those people who are self sponsoring type ratings and buying hours, with no job at the end.
I had a couple of interviews recently and it was very interesting to note the interviewers(management pilots) opinions of those people who are self sponsoring type ratings and buying hours, with no job at the end.
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Didnt think I would ever say this but, if you have the funds, Type rating. The new PPL instructor rules now mean that CPL's looking to keep current and build up experience before that first job by instructing is slowly going to be no longer. Why are schools going to pay a CPL, when Jo Bloggs PPL will do it out of the kindness of thier hearts!
No offence whatsoever intended. It will do the job of filling the shortage of instructors in the training world, but cause an even bigger glut of FATPL's looking for jobs.
No offence whatsoever intended. It will do the job of filling the shortage of instructors in the training world, but cause an even bigger glut of FATPL's looking for jobs.
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I genuinely think that the PPL instructor thing will not have any bearing.
Instructors are thin on the ground and schools will pretty much take all the instructors they can get-PPL or CPL.
I think these schemes are ripping people off and are really selling people short.
You pay money to get 300 hours, but experienced as per the industry standard is 500 hours. It's a con from beginning to end.
Go the instructing route, your flying skills will improve so much and you wll learn a great deal. Not only that airlines love to see people who have instructed.
You would be amazed at the people who float in and out of flying schools/clubs-you get to meet some really good contacts and this is hugely helpful.
Instructors are thin on the ground and schools will pretty much take all the instructors they can get-PPL or CPL.
I think these schemes are ripping people off and are really selling people short.
You pay money to get 300 hours, but experienced as per the industry standard is 500 hours. It's a con from beginning to end.
Go the instructing route, your flying skills will improve so much and you wll learn a great deal. Not only that airlines love to see people who have instructed.
You would be amazed at the people who float in and out of flying schools/clubs-you get to meet some really good contacts and this is hugely helpful.
Last edited by pipergirl; 16th Apr 2008 at 16:37.
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you just forget one thing: very often low hour pilots really do not have any other option to get more experience!
for example, here I am with 250 hours, CPL, IR, ME
I canNOT get a jaa instructor rating under 400 hours tt
I canNOT get a job as an instuctor even if I do have 400 tt where I live...
but i CAN go for a type rating and line training
paying for line training is not all that expensive anyways: 500 hours for about 25-30000 euros.. flying 500 hours with even a Cessna 150 costs more.. and takes a hell of a long time (maybe years)
do you really call me immoral just because I have this dream and now an opportunity to get it? do you really expect me to fly with a Cessna and even pay more for it instead of getting a real type rating and real IFR experience?
Please understand that I really do not have any other chance to become a real pilot!
for example, here I am with 250 hours, CPL, IR, ME
I canNOT get a jaa instructor rating under 400 hours tt
I canNOT get a job as an instuctor even if I do have 400 tt where I live...
but i CAN go for a type rating and line training
paying for line training is not all that expensive anyways: 500 hours for about 25-30000 euros.. flying 500 hours with even a Cessna 150 costs more.. and takes a hell of a long time (maybe years)
do you really call me immoral just because I have this dream and now an opportunity to get it? do you really expect me to fly with a Cessna and even pay more for it instead of getting a real type rating and real IFR experience?
Please understand that I really do not have any other chance to become a real pilot!
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Personally i would go for the FI rating. Doing the line training does not guaranty you a job even if you get 500 hrs out of it. There are far more experienced pilots out there having a tough time getting a job. Doing a TR with no job prospects at the end of it is a huge waste money. Instructing/accumulating hrs until the industry picks itself up is a far safer approach in the current environment, at least in my opinion.
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Its better to teach someone to fish than giving im a fish
From my experience i believe that you should be first instructor, but you have to be it for the experience and the joy of teaching not with the only goal of building hours.
The advantage is when changing from right to left you are already used to be PIC.
If you go directly to the type you will be on their hands thats it
The advantage is when changing from right to left you are already used to be PIC.
If you go directly to the type you will be on their hands
thats it
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This thread originated at a time (not that long ago) when newly qualified pilots had a chance of going straight to airlines, and when there were loads of instuctor jobs.
Now, there are many very experienced airline pilots looking for a job, so the new guys have little hope. Also, and as a direct result of the above, there are virtually no instructor jobs whatsoever!
Now, there are many very experienced airline pilots looking for a job, so the new guys have little hope. Also, and as a direct result of the above, there are virtually no instructor jobs whatsoever!
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'Bukowszky', you do have another option, you could move.
Is you pursuing your dream more important than the industry as a whole?
If it is then you are being selfish.
And consider this, will it still be a dream in 20 years time when the industry's working conditions have degraded even more by all the other pilots paying airlines to fly for them?
People need to stop thinking about themselves and think about the collective as a whole.
Is you pursuing your dream more important than the industry as a whole?
If it is then you are being selfish.
And consider this, will it still be a dream in 20 years time when the industry's working conditions have degraded even more by all the other pilots paying airlines to fly for them?
People need to stop thinking about themselves and think about the collective as a whole.
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I'm new to this forum, and by reading through a lot of these threads, seems to be the majority of people are from the UK/Europe(I'm from Canada). Things seem really weird over there, as in I don't understand all this paying to work stuff, or needing 400hrs to instruct when the most you have after doing CPL/IR is 200ish. Or this ATPL talk from guys with less than 200hrs...and this integrated/modular stuff.
How did all the current pilots over there get jobs after getting their licenses?
Here, once you are done your CPL, you have at least 200hrs. With 200-300hrs you can find work, not with an airline, but you can get a flying job that will give you enough hours to then move to a small airline.
I don't really ever hear of people paying to work over here. Have things gotten really bad over there? How long as it been like that?
I agree, PILOTS NEED TO THINK OF THEIR LONG TERM CAREER QUALITY before thinking of themselves and the imediate. Choices made early on WILL come to haunt you later on.
How did all the current pilots over there get jobs after getting their licenses?
Here, once you are done your CPL, you have at least 200hrs. With 200-300hrs you can find work, not with an airline, but you can get a flying job that will give you enough hours to then move to a small airline.
I don't really ever hear of people paying to work over here. Have things gotten really bad over there? How long as it been like that?
I agree, PILOTS NEED TO THINK OF THEIR LONG TERM CAREER QUALITY before thinking of themselves and the imediate. Choices made early on WILL come to haunt you later on.
