Start of my dream. Day 1
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Start of my dream. Day 1
Hi,
Finally after sourcing the funds (saved for ages and house sale money) i am going to start the training to live my dream (airline pilot).
I went to a flying school today (not going to name names but in cheshire) and was a bit, well, disheartened by what the instructor said to me. I got there and asked the usual questions of price, whats the best order to do things and the response i got was a boring, disheartened, fed up rant of how much he owes the bank and unless i have money to burn i will never get an airline job. He told me i would need to spend 40-50k on a modular fatpl, then at least 20k in a type rating and even then i will have no chance of getting a job unless i pay out for 1000+ hours on a simulator.
He stuttered terribly and generally seemed like he didnt care whether i booked some lessons or not (which i obviously didnt)
Surely all flying schols arent that bad?
Does anybody know of a good training school, closish to Alsager, stoke on trent that offers the modular fatpl? , or at least ppl, cpl and me (i could train for the rest elsewhere)
I was told that i should do all the ppl exams and get my class 1 medical before doing any flying whatsoever so its out of the way. Does that seem like good advice?
I was also told that i should train for my Instrument Rating last after ive got all my hours as i wouldnt need to keep paying to revalidate it as im training for all the rest?!?!
Is that right?
Finally after sourcing the funds (saved for ages and house sale money) i am going to start the training to live my dream (airline pilot).
I went to a flying school today (not going to name names but in cheshire) and was a bit, well, disheartened by what the instructor said to me. I got there and asked the usual questions of price, whats the best order to do things and the response i got was a boring, disheartened, fed up rant of how much he owes the bank and unless i have money to burn i will never get an airline job. He told me i would need to spend 40-50k on a modular fatpl, then at least 20k in a type rating and even then i will have no chance of getting a job unless i pay out for 1000+ hours on a simulator.
He stuttered terribly and generally seemed like he didnt care whether i booked some lessons or not (which i obviously didnt)
Surely all flying schols arent that bad?
Does anybody know of a good training school, closish to Alsager, stoke on trent that offers the modular fatpl? , or at least ppl, cpl and me (i could train for the rest elsewhere)
I was told that i should do all the ppl exams and get my class 1 medical before doing any flying whatsoever so its out of the way. Does that seem like good advice?
I was also told that i should train for my Instrument Rating last after ive got all my hours as i wouldnt need to keep paying to revalidate it as im training for all the rest?!?!
Is that right?
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Princeoftheskies LOL Oh dear god!
Can I suggest you do ALOT more research before you spend a penny and become Prince Of The Skies (ok, now i'm taking the p*ss!)! If you have the money to go for it, great! But some of the questions you're asking is information you should know before going any further into Pilot Training.
Don't think any further than your PPL at this stage, the mountain you have before you is enormous...
19th April Renaisance Hotel @ LHR may be a good place to start for ideas, 0900! Flyer Pilot Training Show.
Can I suggest you do ALOT more research before you spend a penny and become Prince Of The Skies (ok, now i'm taking the p*ss!)! If you have the money to go for it, great! But some of the questions you're asking is information you should know before going any further into Pilot Training.
Don't think any further than your PPL at this stage, the mountain you have before you is enormous...
19th April Renaisance Hotel @ LHR may be a good place to start for ideas, 0900! Flyer Pilot Training Show.
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Where in Cheshire did you go ??????? Hawardens in N Wales , Liverpool is in , well liverpool and Barton is in Salford . Hard to recommend you somewhere when we dont know where you have just had bad info .
Unfortunately nowhere is close to Alsager , I know I live in Sandbach . Liverpool Barton and Sleap are all within 40 minutes drive and each have good schools with good instructors . And I think all three have more than one school. Try again . The pricing he gave you is about right though
and try this before asking anything else
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649
Unfortunately nowhere is close to Alsager , I know I live in Sandbach . Liverpool Barton and Sleap are all within 40 minutes drive and each have good schools with good instructors . And I think all three have more than one school. Try again . The pricing he gave you is about right though
and try this before asking anything else
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649
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Whatever training you want to do, you should feel comfortable and confident with the provider and its employees. There is plenty of choice and if you do a bit of proper research (on here and elsewhere) you should soon acquire a feel for what you should be looking for.
In fact although it wasn't the best "sell" and probably not what you wanted to hear, that instructor was probably giving you a good idea of what you might expect when the "dream" starts to turn into the "reality". He is certainly right in that you should invest money in the medical before you start to part with serious funds in pursuit of flying training. You should also embark on this one step at a time. Provided that investing in a Private Pilots Licence would be a goal in itself, then there is no reason why you shouldn't embark on flight training straight away, and undertake those ground studies relevant to that license during the course of that training. That is what most people do in any event.
After the PPL has been obtained you will be looking to consolodate and then expand your limited experience with progression on to slightly more advanced general aviation aircraft types, and other ratings that remove some of the restrictions placed on you. If you have a career goal in mind, it is then the time to start looking further into the options that would lead you on to a professional pilots license (CPL/IR and ATPL). There are different routes you can take and the costs and school options vary depending on the choices you make.
Airline flying is the top section of a very big pyramid. The climb to the top for most people is very expensive and can be extremely frustrating. The attrition rate is high, and there are no guarantees. Despite that many people do succeed in their aspirations, and for most not without considerable hardship and certainly a great deal of expense. Those that do make it will quickly learn that the expectations of the "dream" are soon replaced by the more mundane realization that it is still just a job. It would be true to say that is usually still a very good job, but that doesn't distract from the fact that there are other important things in life.
The instructor you spoke to was a poor salesman, and if I employed him at that school he would now be looking for another job. As a business I would be happy to take your cash and let you live with your dream, since your cash would be what makes my dreams come true ! In fact I think he did you a favour by bringing you down to Earth with a bit of a bump, and providing an insight into the reality that he and many other instructors and would be airline pilots actually face.
In fact although it wasn't the best "sell" and probably not what you wanted to hear, that instructor was probably giving you a good idea of what you might expect when the "dream" starts to turn into the "reality". He is certainly right in that you should invest money in the medical before you start to part with serious funds in pursuit of flying training. You should also embark on this one step at a time. Provided that investing in a Private Pilots Licence would be a goal in itself, then there is no reason why you shouldn't embark on flight training straight away, and undertake those ground studies relevant to that license during the course of that training. That is what most people do in any event.
After the PPL has been obtained you will be looking to consolodate and then expand your limited experience with progression on to slightly more advanced general aviation aircraft types, and other ratings that remove some of the restrictions placed on you. If you have a career goal in mind, it is then the time to start looking further into the options that would lead you on to a professional pilots license (CPL/IR and ATPL). There are different routes you can take and the costs and school options vary depending on the choices you make.
Airline flying is the top section of a very big pyramid. The climb to the top for most people is very expensive and can be extremely frustrating. The attrition rate is high, and there are no guarantees. Despite that many people do succeed in their aspirations, and for most not without considerable hardship and certainly a great deal of expense. Those that do make it will quickly learn that the expectations of the "dream" are soon replaced by the more mundane realization that it is still just a job. It would be true to say that is usually still a very good job, but that doesn't distract from the fact that there are other important things in life.
The instructor you spoke to was a poor salesman, and if I employed him at that school he would now be looking for another job. As a business I would be happy to take your cash and let you live with your dream, since your cash would be what makes my dreams come true ! In fact I think he did you a favour by bringing you down to Earth with a bit of a bump, and providing an insight into the reality that he and many other instructors and would be airline pilots actually face.
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JB007,
My surname is Prince , hence the name (nothing to do with a silly catchy name).
I thought thats what this forum was about? , to find out things?
I dont think i need to know everything before embarking on a training. I know alot of things , but dont profess to know wverything , hence the reason i registered here and asked the questions.
My surname is Prince , hence the name (nothing to do with a silly catchy name).
I thought thats what this forum was about? , to find out things?
I dont think i need to know everything before embarking on a training. I know alot of things , but dont profess to know wverything , hence the reason i registered here and asked the questions.
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JB007 is quite right!! You need to do a lot more research....
"I dont think i need to know everything before embarking on a training"
WRONG. You do. You need to have a plan...it is very important. Think of it like decorating a room...you need to know the right order....e.g. you've finished the plastering and the carpet has arrived but you were a bit late ordering the wallpaper and it hasn't arrived yet. You rush out to buy some but in your haste it doesn't match the carpet. Meanwhile, you lay the carpet but you haven't finished painting the woodwork and you get paint on the carpet..
That probably sounds stupid, but it will be much easier if you know where you're going before you start and get the timings right. It will be a LOT cheaper too and will save you doing flying you don't need to. I wouldn't spend a penny till I had a big sheet of paper outlining my timescales and EVERYTHING I needed to do....that way you will be ordering your ATPL groundschool stuff at exactly the right time and plan your hour building so you finish with the minimum hour just before your CPL course etc.. Also, ask yourself if you need to do an IMC? If so, why? How about night? If so, why... How about multi? Where? IR at the same time or later? If so why? US or UK? Why and what parts? FAA with conversion or JAA? Why? How? What are the differences? PPL here or in US? Why? FAA or JAA? Does it matter? Why? You need to have an answer to this stuff really before you begin. Why? Well, if you decide to do an FAA PPL then you need to plan that now to get the TSA stuff done....if you haven't considered it then why not? You know, I'm not saying that it is the right decision, just you kind of need to have thought it through.
Go to the Flyer exhibition, but remember that the people you talk to want your money so they will tell you what you want to hear.
You need to understand the structure of modular training and in what order you need to do the various licenses and ratings. You seem to have done the planning as far as getting the money together (the hardest part) which is a great start. You also need to understand how to save money (e.g. flying in the US) and budget for an FI rating to increase your chances of getting a job.
Pprune is a great resource for you so rather than asking questions, why not do a little reading first....it is ALL here. You won't get people to respond with good answers when they have seen people ask the SAME basic questions a hundred times without doing any research of their own. Also, email a variety of schools if you can't get to London for the Flyer thing and get them to send you brochures or check their websites to get information.
Also, check LASORS carefully - this will tell you how many hours you need for (and prior to) each section so it will let you plan you training and hour building accordingly and save you a small fortune if you do it right.
PM me if you want although I won't be happy to answer the "where should I train and in what order should I do it" question - you need to decide that for yourself. Specifics only please!!!!!
Anyway, well done for taking the first step.....
"I dont think i need to know everything before embarking on a training"
WRONG. You do. You need to have a plan...it is very important. Think of it like decorating a room...you need to know the right order....e.g. you've finished the plastering and the carpet has arrived but you were a bit late ordering the wallpaper and it hasn't arrived yet. You rush out to buy some but in your haste it doesn't match the carpet. Meanwhile, you lay the carpet but you haven't finished painting the woodwork and you get paint on the carpet..
That probably sounds stupid, but it will be much easier if you know where you're going before you start and get the timings right. It will be a LOT cheaper too and will save you doing flying you don't need to. I wouldn't spend a penny till I had a big sheet of paper outlining my timescales and EVERYTHING I needed to do....that way you will be ordering your ATPL groundschool stuff at exactly the right time and plan your hour building so you finish with the minimum hour just before your CPL course etc.. Also, ask yourself if you need to do an IMC? If so, why? How about night? If so, why... How about multi? Where? IR at the same time or later? If so why? US or UK? Why and what parts? FAA with conversion or JAA? Why? How? What are the differences? PPL here or in US? Why? FAA or JAA? Does it matter? Why? You need to have an answer to this stuff really before you begin. Why? Well, if you decide to do an FAA PPL then you need to plan that now to get the TSA stuff done....if you haven't considered it then why not? You know, I'm not saying that it is the right decision, just you kind of need to have thought it through.
Go to the Flyer exhibition, but remember that the people you talk to want your money so they will tell you what you want to hear.
You need to understand the structure of modular training and in what order you need to do the various licenses and ratings. You seem to have done the planning as far as getting the money together (the hardest part) which is a great start. You also need to understand how to save money (e.g. flying in the US) and budget for an FI rating to increase your chances of getting a job.
Pprune is a great resource for you so rather than asking questions, why not do a little reading first....it is ALL here. You won't get people to respond with good answers when they have seen people ask the SAME basic questions a hundred times without doing any research of their own. Also, email a variety of schools if you can't get to London for the Flyer thing and get them to send you brochures or check their websites to get information.
Also, check LASORS carefully - this will tell you how many hours you need for (and prior to) each section so it will let you plan you training and hour building accordingly and save you a small fortune if you do it right.
PM me if you want although I won't be happy to answer the "where should I train and in what order should I do it" question - you need to decide that for yourself. Specifics only please!!!!!
Anyway, well done for taking the first step.....
Last edited by Wilton Shagpile; 2nd Apr 2008 at 08:45.
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Prince
From what I see above and your experience with the F/I I guess it all seems a bit depressing.
However if you have done some research and saved up your pennies it is all quite possible, it just requires a great wade of money and unimaginable commitment.
Your certainly should get a Class 1 medical before going to far as that is an absolute showstopper without one.
It will cost you ~£70K to even get a CV on an airline desk.
JB007 is offering goood advise, you really should get down and visit the The Flyer Show at Heathrow in April...that will give you avery good flavour for the industry.
Sorry no help on flying schools in NW as I am on South coast..but would be supraised if there is not a fairly local flying club in area which you could train with at least up to PPL.
Good Luck
However if you have done some research and saved up your pennies it is all quite possible, it just requires a great wade of money and unimaginable commitment.
Your certainly should get a Class 1 medical before going to far as that is an absolute showstopper without one.
It will cost you ~£70K to even get a CV on an airline desk.
JB007 is offering goood advise, you really should get down and visit the The Flyer Show at Heathrow in April...that will give you avery good flavour for the industry.
Sorry no help on flying schools in NW as I am on South coast..but would be supraised if there is not a fairly local flying club in area which you could train with at least up to PPL.
Good Luck
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Someone can spend a week researching a TV to spend £500 and half a day buying it. That person can spend a week researching a flying career to spend £40,000 and 3 years 'buying' it.
Not saying this is you princeoftheskies, but make sure you spend a proportionate amount of time looking into the career.
Also bear in mind this forum has been running donky's years, there have been people before in similar situations who have asked similar questions.
You will find that some of your questions will be responded to quite coldly with 'do a search', this is to stop the same issue being repeated again and again. Spend as much time as possible looking through existing threads, good luck (and sorry to hear about a bad first experience!)
Not saying this is you princeoftheskies, but make sure you spend a proportionate amount of time looking into the career.
Also bear in mind this forum has been running donky's years, there have been people before in similar situations who have asked similar questions.
You will find that some of your questions will be responded to quite coldly with 'do a search', this is to stop the same issue being repeated again and again. Spend as much time as possible looking through existing threads, good luck (and sorry to hear about a bad first experience!)
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Whilst i agree i need to research stuff , i dont think i should postpone doing a PPL until i know everything about the industry?!?!
EVERYBODY has to start off with a ppl and i have a family so am not going to go to another country to do iut so its a no brainer. The PPL will take me a few months to do at least so will give me that amount of time to plan the rest.
EVERYBODY has to start off with a ppl and i have a family so am not going to go to another country to do iut so its a no brainer. The PPL will take me a few months to do at least so will give me that amount of time to plan the rest.
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The question was about flying schools for ATPLs not PPL.
For your PPL, just make sure you're happy with what the school offers!
Finally after sourcing the funds (saved for ages and house sale money) i am going to start the training to live my dream (airline pilot).
Does anybody know of a good training school, closish to Alsager, stoke on trent that offers the modular fatpl?
I dont think i need to know everything before embarking on a training. I know alot of things , but dont profess to know wverything , hence the reason i registered here and asked the questions.
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POTS!
You took that far too literally, I'm not suggesting you reasearch the entire industry, I am suggesting you do ALOT more research with regards to your own Pilot Training and career plan.
This is what i'm getting at; A Class 1 medical is the first stop before anything else. Your level of research is too shallow, especially if you're about to start paying out!!!
Again, basic stuff! An IR is a Rating you would add to your CPL, you'll have to do it last!
This forum is great to ask lots of questions, but I am always staggered by people who are prepared to spend a bl**dy fortune for a so called dream job and can't get in the car/pick up the phone and explore a few flight schools.And no offence POTS, but you don't sounds like you've done any! You've asked some very basic questions but could start spending lots of money today, without actually been aware of what you have budgeted for! IF at all....
This sounds harsh but if you really want to do this, and believe me it's going to test your characture to it's limits, you should have an idea of what schools are around you and go and talk to them - forget the donkey in Cheshire, just put it behind you! I would start at The Flyer Show before spending any money, including your PPL - lots of schools under one roof for less that a tenner if you book online!
Then you can start making choices, build a plan for yourself and a timescale and have an idea of a budget/what it will cost...
Lots of people on this website who have been there done it - so I wouldn't get aggravated/defensive by harsh advice.Besides, you're about to be assessed constantly for the next 3 years!!!!! Then you've gotta get a job...
I personally have been at the end of some very bad training which cost me a small fortune at a school in Humberside, it isn't pleasant. I now fly a B757/767 and can laugh about it but you've already come up against the sort of instructors that are out there - imagine if you'd actually started your PPL in Cheshire!!! At your stage, it is worth putting in alot of effort to get it right first time and pick schools you are very very comfortable with.
You took that far too literally, I'm not suggesting you reasearch the entire industry, I am suggesting you do ALOT more research with regards to your own Pilot Training and career plan.
I was told that i should do all the ppl exams and get my class 1 medical before doing any flying whatsoever so its out of the way. Does that seem like good advice?
I was also told that i should train for my Instrument Rating last after ive got all my hours as i wouldnt need to keep paying to revalidate it as im training for all the rest?!?!
This forum is great to ask lots of questions, but I am always staggered by people who are prepared to spend a bl**dy fortune for a so called dream job and can't get in the car/pick up the phone and explore a few flight schools.And no offence POTS, but you don't sounds like you've done any! You've asked some very basic questions but could start spending lots of money today, without actually been aware of what you have budgeted for! IF at all....
This sounds harsh but if you really want to do this, and believe me it's going to test your characture to it's limits, you should have an idea of what schools are around you and go and talk to them - forget the donkey in Cheshire, just put it behind you! I would start at The Flyer Show before spending any money, including your PPL - lots of schools under one roof for less that a tenner if you book online!
Then you can start making choices, build a plan for yourself and a timescale and have an idea of a budget/what it will cost...
Lots of people on this website who have been there done it - so I wouldn't get aggravated/defensive by harsh advice.Besides, you're about to be assessed constantly for the next 3 years!!!!! Then you've gotta get a job...
I personally have been at the end of some very bad training which cost me a small fortune at a school in Humberside, it isn't pleasant. I now fly a B757/767 and can laugh about it but you've already come up against the sort of instructors that are out there - imagine if you'd actually started your PPL in Cheshire!!! At your stage, it is worth putting in alot of effort to get it right first time and pick schools you are very very comfortable with.
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Hi,
Im not being funny, but just think this forum is so vast that the search doesnt always bring up the answers. I did search before i posted but couldnt find the info i needed. I think im just going to start my ppl at a school i like then research whilst im doing that.
Im not being funny, but just think this forum is so vast that the search doesnt always bring up the answers. I did search before i posted but couldnt find the info i needed. I think im just going to start my ppl at a school i like then research whilst im doing that.
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Don't be too disheartened by the negativity on here prince, this website is ridiculously negative alot of the time.
My advice to you would be to go slow and not rush into committing yourself to a training programme. ie. take a couple of flying lessons, see if its really for you. Then do some research on ppl subjects, and more importantly atpl subjects. After that try to get an idea of what instrument flying is all about, be realistic and make a decision if its all for you. If you think it is then go for it.
Be careful to research well any flying school you encounter and then decide on one.
I've seen plenty of people without any aptitude attempt the training and fail miserably, pouring thousands of pounds down the drain in the process - so make damn well sure its for you and you will have the commitment to stick to the training. Then enjoy!
My advice to you would be to go slow and not rush into committing yourself to a training programme. ie. take a couple of flying lessons, see if its really for you. Then do some research on ppl subjects, and more importantly atpl subjects. After that try to get an idea of what instrument flying is all about, be realistic and make a decision if its all for you. If you think it is then go for it.
Be careful to research well any flying school you encounter and then decide on one.
I've seen plenty of people without any aptitude attempt the training and fail miserably, pouring thousands of pounds down the drain in the process - so make damn well sure its for you and you will have the commitment to stick to the training. Then enjoy!
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Hi,
Thanks for the first positive reply.
Ive just downloaded lasors off the caa website now so will be getting a blank piece of paper, and putting the different things i need to in order and what hors i need in between and then work out a plan.
I think im going to pick a day next week and just drive round all the local flying schools and then pick one from there.
Thanks
Thanks for the first positive reply.
Ive just downloaded lasors off the caa website now so will be getting a blank piece of paper, and putting the different things i need to in order and what hors i need in between and then work out a plan.
I think im going to pick a day next week and just drive round all the local flying schools and then pick one from there.
Thanks
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Pprune is a superb resource there's no doubt but you can get a lot of information from the schools too.....forget all the stuff about their school being the best etc. just look at the facts. i.e what do I need to do and in what order. What are the options, how can I save money on the way. I don't think anybody is trying to be negative - personally I am glad when somebody takes a risk to achieve a long standing goal, but nobody wants to see you get fleeced or spend your hard-earned and get nowt back for it that's all!!
I wouldn't even embark on the PPL withouth at least an idea of what the future holds....do you know how much it is all going to cost? I mean, REALLY cost, not just based on what people on here tell you. Can you afford to finish? What are your timescales? Will you be running into your CPL course as winter approaches? What does that mean for your timescales etc? More delay means more cost etc. Can you afford to keep current while doing the ATPL groundschool etc. If not, maybe best wait till you can?
Have you factored in the cost of working as an FI for a low salary?
I would agree with the notion of going for the Class 1 first. Unless of course you plan to fly recreationally even if you can only get a class 2.
Modular training is a jungle - sounds stupid but there are big traps for the unwary! Sometimes schools will tell you things that are just not true (the FI you spoke to telling you that you needed 1,000 simulator hours for example). Knowledge is power!
I wouldn't even embark on the PPL withouth at least an idea of what the future holds....do you know how much it is all going to cost? I mean, REALLY cost, not just based on what people on here tell you. Can you afford to finish? What are your timescales? Will you be running into your CPL course as winter approaches? What does that mean for your timescales etc? More delay means more cost etc. Can you afford to keep current while doing the ATPL groundschool etc. If not, maybe best wait till you can?
Have you factored in the cost of working as an FI for a low salary?
I would agree with the notion of going for the Class 1 first. Unless of course you plan to fly recreationally even if you can only get a class 2.
Modular training is a jungle - sounds stupid but there are big traps for the unwary! Sometimes schools will tell you things that are just not true (the FI you spoke to telling you that you needed 1,000 simulator hours for example). Knowledge is power!
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Hi Wilton,
I want to have the fatpl on my 35th birthday (4.5yrs away)
I think from the researching ive done this afternoon im going to do it this way...
CLASS 1 MEDICAL
PPL
CPL AND ME
ATPL GROUNDSCHOOL
IR
MCC
Plus the obvious hourbuilding in between as needed.
I want to have the fatpl on my 35th birthday (4.5yrs away)
I think from the researching ive done this afternoon im going to do it this way...
CLASS 1 MEDICAL
PPL
CPL AND ME
ATPL GROUNDSCHOOL
IR
MCC
Plus the obvious hourbuilding in between as needed.
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A PPL is a great way to get a feel for flying, but before spending the real money it's worth knowing as much as you can.
Try using google to search, with Pprune included as a keyword it has better advanced search functions.. eg
~flying searches for flying, flight, plane, aeroplane etc
"flight training" searches for the exact phrase
training OR school searches for either word
-abroad displays results without the word
These the ones I use mainly, may be of use to you.
Try using google to search, with Pprune included as a keyword it has better advanced search functions.. eg
~flying searches for flying, flight, plane, aeroplane etc
"flight training" searches for the exact phrase
training OR school searches for either word
-abroad displays results without the word
These the ones I use mainly, may be of use to you.