JAA License conversion request
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JAA License conversion request
I am interested to convert my CPL License with IR and ME as well as a B737 rating.
Presently a first officer on B737 with a frozen ICAO ATPL (ATPL theory completed). I have 2900 hours total time of which 2600 hours are on B737 EFIS.
I already started the process of JAA ATPL theory which I will be completing in 6 months hopefully.
I am concerned about the practical part. I need to do an ATPL skill test on B737EFIS. I believe a session of 4 hours is needed. Is that correct?
I contacted the CAA and they advised me to finish the theory and then apply for validation for a JAA CPL to avoid having to do an approved training of 15 hours for the CPL conversion????
I thought I needed the JAA theory, the JAA class 1 medical and the skill test on a B737 sim.
Anyone converted a CPL to a JAA ATPL? What about the skilll test? Sessions? hours of sim?
According to bristol.gs:
CPL Conversions
To convert an ICAO CPL to a JAA ATPL you will need 1500 hours flight time including:
* 500 hours on multi-pilot aircraft,
* 250 hours pilot in command,
* 200 hours cross country,
* 75 hours instrument time and
* 30 hours night.
If you don't have this level of experience you can still do the conversion but you will be issued a JAA CPL. When you meet the experience requirements you can upgrade it to an ATPL.
Groundschool Requirements
If you hold a non-JAA CPL you need to do an approved groundschool course and then pass all fourteen ground exams, there is no credit given. If you hold a JAA CPL you still need to pass all the exams and complete a course but the training requirement is reduced.
Flying Requirements
You will need to pass two flight tests:
* The Skills Test
* The Instrument Rating
Skills Test
The skills test is a handling check flown on a complex aircraft, defined as an aircraft with retractable gear and a variable pitch prop. If you are converting a CPL there is no formal training requirement but you should anticipate 10 to 15 hours to get used to the profile and the aircraft.
Instrument Rating
If you already hold an ICAO IR the training requirement for conversion is to complete at least 15 hours before the test, up to ten can be completed in a simulator.
If you have never held an Instrument Rating you must complete 50 hours of training before the test, up to 35 hours can be done in the simulator.
Multi Crew Co-operation
Many companies require a Multi Crew Co-operation (MCC) course to have been completed before they will employ you. An MCC course is not required if you have spent more than 500 hours operating multi-pilot aircraft.
Presently a first officer on B737 with a frozen ICAO ATPL (ATPL theory completed). I have 2900 hours total time of which 2600 hours are on B737 EFIS.
I already started the process of JAA ATPL theory which I will be completing in 6 months hopefully.
I am concerned about the practical part. I need to do an ATPL skill test on B737EFIS. I believe a session of 4 hours is needed. Is that correct?
I contacted the CAA and they advised me to finish the theory and then apply for validation for a JAA CPL to avoid having to do an approved training of 15 hours for the CPL conversion????
I thought I needed the JAA theory, the JAA class 1 medical and the skill test on a B737 sim.
Anyone converted a CPL to a JAA ATPL? What about the skilll test? Sessions? hours of sim?
According to bristol.gs:
CPL Conversions
To convert an ICAO CPL to a JAA ATPL you will need 1500 hours flight time including:
* 500 hours on multi-pilot aircraft,
* 250 hours pilot in command,
* 200 hours cross country,
* 75 hours instrument time and
* 30 hours night.
If you don't have this level of experience you can still do the conversion but you will be issued a JAA CPL. When you meet the experience requirements you can upgrade it to an ATPL.
Groundschool Requirements
If you hold a non-JAA CPL you need to do an approved groundschool course and then pass all fourteen ground exams, there is no credit given. If you hold a JAA CPL you still need to pass all the exams and complete a course but the training requirement is reduced.
Flying Requirements
You will need to pass two flight tests:
* The Skills Test
* The Instrument Rating
Skills Test
The skills test is a handling check flown on a complex aircraft, defined as an aircraft with retractable gear and a variable pitch prop. If you are converting a CPL there is no formal training requirement but you should anticipate 10 to 15 hours to get used to the profile and the aircraft.
Instrument Rating
If you already hold an ICAO IR the training requirement for conversion is to complete at least 15 hours before the test, up to ten can be completed in a simulator.
If you have never held an Instrument Rating you must complete 50 hours of training before the test, up to 35 hours can be done in the simulator.
Multi Crew Co-operation
Many companies require a Multi Crew Co-operation (MCC) course to have been completed before they will employ you. An MCC course is not required if you have spent more than 500 hours operating multi-pilot aircraft.
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You cant convert your ICAO CPL to the JAA ATPL, you have to upgrade your current license to a ATPL and then convert ATPL to ATPL. i have been having this conversation with them for a while.
Then you can do a ATPL skills test, but it HAS to be with a CAA Flight Ops Inspector from Gatwick, allow 15 weeks to book the test and it also has to be done here in the UK even if it is in the sim.
Hope that helps a little
Then you can do a ATPL skills test, but it HAS to be with a CAA Flight Ops Inspector from Gatwick, allow 15 weeks to book the test and it also has to be done here in the UK even if it is in the sim.
Hope that helps a little
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ITFC, I won't be able to upgrade my ATPL unless in about 2 years from now. This is the problem and the main reason why I am looking to go JAA.
I am sure it is feasible to go from an ICAO CPL with ATPL theory to a JAA ATPL. The bristol website clearly states that.
I am sure it is feasible to go from an ICAO CPL with ATPL theory to a JAA ATPL. The bristol website clearly states that.
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If you have a ICAO CPL/IR, you can only convert it to a JAA CPL/IR which means doing the 15 hours IR training and the CPL as required training.
You can only convert like for like, belive me i tried, i had all the requirements for a JAA ATPL ,but i had a FAA CPL/IR, and they were 100% that i couldnt do a Mulit Pilot Type Rating and be issued with a ATPL. I had to upgrade mine to the ATPL first and then convert over. I kept asking why i couldnt do the JAA ATPL skills test and all they kept saying is it has to be like for like, unless you had a ATPL and then you could do the CPL/IR route if you wanted.
One other thing to be aware of is, as i had a FAA CPL i wanted to do the FAA ATPL checkride one day and the next do the JAA one, but they wont allow that either, as the FAA issue you a temp 120 Certificate, you have to wait for the permanant one to come through, i am not sure which License you have, but just be aware of that too.
You can only convert like for like, belive me i tried, i had all the requirements for a JAA ATPL ,but i had a FAA CPL/IR, and they were 100% that i couldnt do a Mulit Pilot Type Rating and be issued with a ATPL. I had to upgrade mine to the ATPL first and then convert over. I kept asking why i couldnt do the JAA ATPL skills test and all they kept saying is it has to be like for like, unless you had a ATPL and then you could do the CPL/IR route if you wanted.
One other thing to be aware of is, as i had a FAA CPL i wanted to do the FAA ATPL checkride one day and the next do the JAA one, but they wont allow that either, as the FAA issue you a temp 120 Certificate, you have to wait for the permanant one to come through, i am not sure which License you have, but just be aware of that too.
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I forgot to say, i also wanted to upgrade my CAA PPL to the ATPL and try that route, once i had converted my IR, but they also said i couldnt do that, as to get a ATPL you can only upgarde from a CPL.
Even though its the same ATPL checkride they still wouldnt let me do it.
Even though its the same ATPL checkride they still wouldnt let me do it.
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if you already hold an ICAO ATPL (ie: Canadian), to convert to JAA/CAA ATPL you still have to write all 14 exams right?
also on a different note...
do you guys know if a beech 99 will exempt one from a mcc if you have 500hrs on it and flew it 2 crew as per company operations? i am aware it is certified as single pilot and doesn't require a type rating either. i'm just wondering if it's one of those exceptions.
thanks,
pk
also on a different note...
do you guys know if a beech 99 will exempt one from a mcc if you have 500hrs on it and flew it 2 crew as per company operations? i am aware it is certified as single pilot and doesn't require a type rating either. i'm just wondering if it's one of those exceptions.
thanks,
pk
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You can only get a Validation if you are doing private ops, so unfortionatly that wont be an option for you.
Your best bet is to do the 14 exams, upgrade your license to a ATPL and do a skills test in the 737, as you have over 500 on type you will be exempt a TRTO.
Sorry i dont wish to sound all doom and gloom, but its the way it is. I just been through it all.
You should get a MCC with that time, i got one with 1100 on the King Air, you have to send a letter in from the CHief Pilot and all you log books too.
Your best bet is to do the 14 exams, upgrade your license to a ATPL and do a skills test in the 737, as you have over 500 on type you will be exempt a TRTO.
Sorry i dont wish to sound all doom and gloom, but its the way it is. I just been through it all.
You should get a MCC with that time, i got one with 1100 on the King Air, you have to send a letter in from the CHief Pilot and all you log books too.
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Paul K
Your hours on the Beech will count towards the 500 Multi crew needed for the ATPL Issue, as long as it was in your companies AOC that the aircraft was operated two crew.
Its a grey area if it was private ops and you might find that you will have a problem convincing the CAA that it was two crew ops privately.
However as I'm sure you know, the ATPL cannot be issued until you have a Multi Pilot Aeroplane type rating on your licence.
Hope this helps
Your hours on the Beech will count towards the 500 Multi crew needed for the ATPL Issue, as long as it was in your companies AOC that the aircraft was operated two crew.
Its a grey area if it was private ops and you might find that you will have a problem convincing the CAA that it was two crew ops privately.
However as I'm sure you know, the ATPL cannot be issued until you have a Multi Pilot Aeroplane type rating on your licence.
Hope this helps
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the operation is cargo.
our pa-31 navajo's are also flown 2 crew as per our ops. will that also qualify for a mcc exemption as well?
i was under the understanding that the aircraft must be certified 2 crew as per the type certificate in order to qualify for mcc exemption.
thanks for the input. i am still trying to get a grasp on the intricacies of jaa/caa regs.
pk
our pa-31 navajo's are also flown 2 crew as per our ops. will that also qualify for a mcc exemption as well?
i was under the understanding that the aircraft must be certified 2 crew as per the type certificate in order to qualify for mcc exemption.
thanks for the input. i am still trying to get a grasp on the intricacies of jaa/caa regs.
pk
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Having been through the conversion process you can only convert CPL to CPL or ATPL to ATPL. So in your case you will have to do the CPL conversion and then once you have a JAA CPL/IR then you can apply for a JAA ATPL if you meet the experience requirements. You can find it all here in the official LASSOR's (the flight crew licencing bibile issued by the UK CAA). Good Luck
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...ype=68&gid=780
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...ype=68&gid=780
