18 years old, off to university this year and wants to be a airline pilot
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I know it's slightly off topic...with regards to the cost of a degree:
Tuition fees: 3070x4= £12,280
1st year accommodation: £3800 (£97 a week self catering)
2nd-4th year accommodation (at £70 a week): £10,000 give or take
Total: £26,080
Then £25 a week for food, socialising etc. Roughly £30k. Yes you could do it much cheaper if you live at home but there goes the whole "learn life skills"
I'm not saying that Uni. isn't worth it, it's just down to personal choice, you just really need to make sure it's definitely the route you want to go down. However with regards to your current plan you can't do your CPL without CPL theory, are you saying you'd get your full CPL (including the theory) followed by ATPL theory???
Tuition fees: 3070x4= £12,280
1st year accommodation: £3800 (£97 a week self catering)
2nd-4th year accommodation (at £70 a week): £10,000 give or take
Total: £26,080
Then £25 a week for food, socialising etc. Roughly £30k. Yes you could do it much cheaper if you live at home but there goes the whole "learn life skills"
I'm not saying that Uni. isn't worth it, it's just down to personal choice, you just really need to make sure it's definitely the route you want to go down. However with regards to your current plan you can't do your CPL without CPL theory, are you saying you'd get your full CPL (including the theory) followed by ATPL theory???
Last edited by Joffyh; 15th Jan 2008 at 20:10.
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tupuesA degree as a backup is only useful if you fail/lose medical close to finishing. A 15 year old degree in computers is going to do nothing for you. 15 years of work in the comp industry using that degree yes. The plain un-used degree no
I dont think so at all.
With the amount of new pilots training, as much talked about throughout the forum, a degree is going to be a massive help when it comes to the airlines selecting potential pilots.
The majority of the pilots applying will have around about the same low amount of hours - a degree, in any area, but especially in the Air Transport industry field, will give those with the degree a huge advantage other the other applicants. Why would they select the other applicant if both have around about the same amount of experience.
Yes it may be expensive to fund university, but surely its worth it, for the knowledge, and the fact you will have a degree in your list of qualifications.
I dont think so at all.
With the amount of new pilots training, as much talked about throughout the forum, a degree is going to be a massive help when it comes to the airlines selecting potential pilots.
The majority of the pilots applying will have around about the same low amount of hours - a degree, in any area, but especially in the Air Transport industry field, will give those with the degree a huge advantage other the other applicants. Why would they select the other applicant if both have around about the same amount of experience.
Yes it may be expensive to fund university, but surely its worth it, for the knowledge, and the fact you will have a degree in your list of qualifications.
A 15 year old degree in computers is going to do nothing for you
CG
Ric, you're going to work 'til you die son. Go to uni and have fun. They can never take the 3 years back!
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Realistically if you go through uni got a huge loan to pay back, manage to secure a job (degrees are beginning to mean less and less nowadays, as almost everyone has one, so it's not as simple as just walking into a well payed job) are you really going to give it all up so soon?
If you are lucky enough to land yourself in a job, you would be around 25/26ish before you could even begin to look at studying to become a pilot (PPL or CPL), and I have a feeling you would think "is this really finicially viable?", "have I spent 3-4 years studying for something which i'm just about to quit?".
So - you would perhaps put it off for a further 5 years until you have built up enough money. By which time you may have various other commitments that aren't just taking up money, but time. You only live once, take it one step at a time and don't look back. The safe route isn't always the best route!
I personally suggest you take a gap year, apply to various schemes, see how you get on, if you get declined or decide you don't think you're quite ready then sure, go to uni. If however you get through the selection process and can't wait to get up in the air, go for it!
Good Luck Sire.
Have any of you actually looked through the job adverts for people with Physics PhD's? You'd be lucky to find one over 30k which a second year easyJet FO would earn even if he only had 5 GCSE's.
You all have to learn that being a pilot requires but three things:
A licence.
A type rating.
A job offer.
That is it. Nobody gives two struffs if you have a clutch of GCSE's or a PhD in AstroPhysics with Extra Math + Wing Design.
It really is that simple. I've flown with pilots who are borderline thick and borderline genius. It makes not a jot of different to how they drive an aeroplane, command it or run the show. Its an Art.
Get a license and a rating and get as little debt and as few years under your belt as possible is my Very Best Advice. As such you have the most options the least pressure and the most time.
A crappy degree in ICT and some notion that three years of drinking and getting stoned is in some way a wonderful intorduction to life experiences merely illustrates ignorance on an epic scale.
WWW
You all have to learn that being a pilot requires but three things:
A licence.
A type rating.
A job offer.
That is it. Nobody gives two struffs if you have a clutch of GCSE's or a PhD in AstroPhysics with Extra Math + Wing Design.
It really is that simple. I've flown with pilots who are borderline thick and borderline genius. It makes not a jot of different to how they drive an aeroplane, command it or run the show. Its an Art.
Get a license and a rating and get as little debt and as few years under your belt as possible is my Very Best Advice. As such you have the most options the least pressure and the most time.
A crappy degree in ICT and some notion that three years of drinking and getting stoned is in some way a wonderful intorduction to life experiences merely illustrates ignorance on an epic scale.
WWW
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The city trading desks are begging good Maths/Physics Ph.Ds to come and work for them(even in the current climate) the desk I work for just hired 2 newly minted Physics PhDs for Quant/trading roles, they will start on excess of 70K+ with zero industry experience, it’s a similar story in all the investment banks & hedge funds.
Hours are long but there is easy money to be made in the city if you have even undergrad Maths/Physics/Engineering from a decent university, let alone Ph.D.
I've managed to save up the best part of an integrated course in the 3 years since leaving uni, pay off most of my student loan and make many contacts so I can get back in if the flying doesn't work out.
Definitely worth looking into if you're thinking of doing a quantitative based degree.
Hours are long but there is easy money to be made in the city if you have even undergrad Maths/Physics/Engineering from a decent university, let alone Ph.D.
I've managed to save up the best part of an integrated course in the 3 years since leaving uni, pay off most of my student loan and make many contacts so I can get back in if the flying doesn't work out.
Definitely worth looking into if you're thinking of doing a quantitative based degree.
The city trading desks themselves will be in eBay by the end of the summer!
As a plan to become an airline pilot the notion of doing a Physics higher degree in order to get a City job paying enough to fund basic training is towards the more surreal end of the spectrum.
WWW
As a plan to become an airline pilot the notion of doing a Physics higher degree in order to get a City job paying enough to fund basic training is towards the more surreal end of the spectrum.
WWW
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A young person's priorities in making their decision on university and flying should involve only (a) doing what they will be good at and enjoy, and (b) taking a route that will enable them to earn money in the worst case scenario.
While the simple answer is: a pilot needs a licence, medical and type rating, the reality is that it takes a great deal more to successfully achieve this without endangering one's financial position, and there are many other skills that make the person who is hired, beyond flying ability alone (such as personality, communication and initiative, which airlines will assess at interview, in addition to the sim check).
The OP's plan is eminently sensible and achievable - indeed I know of people who have achieved it at a faster rate, instructed at weekends while at university for cash and hours, achieved a first class degree, and walked into a jet job upon graduation. (Not in underwater basket weaving degrees, and at a Russell Group university as well).
While I am not clear what experience WWW had of university (and indeed I believe he was on a UAS, which is a fantastic experience if you have any military interest), for someone who is able, it is an invaluable experience both of independent work and research, networking, and personal development, in addition to socialising of every colour. I don't know of many other places where you can participate in subsidised societies of many flavours, take a subsidised year overseas in an university, participate in politics and debating to meet leading commentators in their fields both in your degree subject and in other areas, and finally to have experience of life beyond that of aviation alone.
Focus on a particular career is admirable, but closing one's mind if you have the ability and interest is dangerous. Those who are not academically suited or interest should never be encouraged to go to university if they have the ability to fly - you however should take the opportunity and go.
I really loathe posts that advise people to achieve the absolute minimum necessary to obtain a position, be it in an airline or elsewhere. In the end, if someone has ambition, doing the minimum will not satisfy their personal drive, even if they do get the job.
While the simple answer is: a pilot needs a licence, medical and type rating, the reality is that it takes a great deal more to successfully achieve this without endangering one's financial position, and there are many other skills that make the person who is hired, beyond flying ability alone (such as personality, communication and initiative, which airlines will assess at interview, in addition to the sim check).
The OP's plan is eminently sensible and achievable - indeed I know of people who have achieved it at a faster rate, instructed at weekends while at university for cash and hours, achieved a first class degree, and walked into a jet job upon graduation. (Not in underwater basket weaving degrees, and at a Russell Group university as well).
While I am not clear what experience WWW had of university (and indeed I believe he was on a UAS, which is a fantastic experience if you have any military interest), for someone who is able, it is an invaluable experience both of independent work and research, networking, and personal development, in addition to socialising of every colour. I don't know of many other places where you can participate in subsidised societies of many flavours, take a subsidised year overseas in an university, participate in politics and debating to meet leading commentators in their fields both in your degree subject and in other areas, and finally to have experience of life beyond that of aviation alone.
Focus on a particular career is admirable, but closing one's mind if you have the ability and interest is dangerous. Those who are not academically suited or interest should never be encouraged to go to university if they have the ability to fly - you however should take the opportunity and go.
I really loathe posts that advise people to achieve the absolute minimum necessary to obtain a position, be it in an airline or elsewhere. In the end, if someone has ambition, doing the minimum will not satisfy their personal drive, even if they do get the job.
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As a footnote, a physics PhD in a univesrity research job is particularly poor paying.
There are however whole markets beyond that, which pay particularly well, and while the banks may be unable to pay $1m salaries to those PhDs this year and next, they will again hire them at those rates in the future, and many hedge funds will continue to hire them in 2008 and 2009.
The debt markets that have died in the past 5 months are but a small proportion of the financial world; not to mention the opportunities in technolody companies, pharmaceuticals and beyond.
A computing degree alone certainly does not guarantee a high-paying job without experience, but it does permit the holder to move into a role that is above that of the average bod on the street.
The financial cost of the degree should of course be borne in mind - you should also consider that you at university to learn, not work in a bar to earn cash - the forecasts provided in posts above are unduly pessimistic though. With summer holiday experience of working in internships (IBM etc), you experience will be greatly increased, your debt reduced, and your standing raised.
Good luck - if favours the well-prepared, not the fools who rush in.
There are however whole markets beyond that, which pay particularly well, and while the banks may be unable to pay $1m salaries to those PhDs this year and next, they will again hire them at those rates in the future, and many hedge funds will continue to hire them in 2008 and 2009.
The debt markets that have died in the past 5 months are but a small proportion of the financial world; not to mention the opportunities in technolody companies, pharmaceuticals and beyond.
A computing degree alone certainly does not guarantee a high-paying job without experience, but it does permit the holder to move into a role that is above that of the average bod on the street.
The financial cost of the degree should of course be borne in mind - you should also consider that you at university to learn, not work in a bar to earn cash - the forecasts provided in posts above are unduly pessimistic though. With summer holiday experience of working in internships (IBM etc), you experience will be greatly increased, your debt reduced, and your standing raised.
Good luck - if favours the well-prepared, not the fools who rush in.
Re-Heat - just to clear up your confusion I did a Joint honours degree in a red brick university which required ABB at A - level to qualify. I had one heck of a good three years and graduated straight into a graduate management job whose title was the same as my degree course. So been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
Whilst it sounds all nice and reasonable saying go to University you really do need to weigh that advice against three years of life, loss of earnings, fees and debts incurred.
Fees will be £9k. Most students leave with debts of £9k even after holiday workings. On top of that you have missed 3 years of full time work where you could probably save £8k a year for three years if you lived at home.
So its £9k + £9k +£8k +£8k +£8K = £42K to take the Uni option over the work option.
Thats a Modular Frzn ATPL right there.
And please do not make the mistake of looking down your nose at workplace learning. I used to run both a Modern Apprenticeship scheme AND an undergrduate sponsorships scheme for a hi-tech design company.
After 4 years (starting at 17) my Modern Apprentices would have an ONC and a HNC and an NVQ4 and be paid £21k as a bench test engineer. My graduates would be earning £18k a year in a junior engineering post. I would get far more upset by loosing a modern apprentice to a rival firm than a graduate...
Uni is a lot more expensive and has a lot less kudos than it used to have. Someone focussed on an aviation career might have little to gain from going to university and much to lose.
WWW
Whilst it sounds all nice and reasonable saying go to University you really do need to weigh that advice against three years of life, loss of earnings, fees and debts incurred.
Fees will be £9k. Most students leave with debts of £9k even after holiday workings. On top of that you have missed 3 years of full time work where you could probably save £8k a year for three years if you lived at home.
So its £9k + £9k +£8k +£8k +£8K = £42K to take the Uni option over the work option.
Thats a Modular Frzn ATPL right there.
And please do not make the mistake of looking down your nose at workplace learning. I used to run both a Modern Apprenticeship scheme AND an undergrduate sponsorships scheme for a hi-tech design company.
After 4 years (starting at 17) my Modern Apprentices would have an ONC and a HNC and an NVQ4 and be paid £21k as a bench test engineer. My graduates would be earning £18k a year in a junior engineering post. I would get far more upset by loosing a modern apprentice to a rival firm than a graduate...
Uni is a lot more expensive and has a lot less kudos than it used to have. Someone focussed on an aviation career might have little to gain from going to university and much to lose.
WWW
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physics PhD in a univesrity research job is particularly poor paying
Sorry for digressing from the original topic.
S
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WWW - I thought that was your experience, hence you understand my confusion in advising the OP against - particularly as I say, someone who clearly has an ambition to achieve it.
Your figures are incorrect for fees:
http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/paym...ition_fees.asp
How much do students have to pay?
From September 2006, universities and colleges in England will be able to charge new full time home undergraduate students up to £3,000 a year. Amounts will vary between courses as well as between different universities and colleges. For more information please see Universities and Colleges Admissions Service's website http://www.ucas.ac.uk/.
No student will have to pay upfront. They can apply to defer their fee. Government will pay on their behalf and they will repay the fee loan after graduation.
Existing students will not be asked to pay variable fees.
Universities will only be allowed to charge more than the 'standard fee' of around £1,200 if they have signed up to an Access Agreement with the new Office for Fair Access (OFFA). This agreement will set out the universities proposals for improving access and the action they will take to promote fair access, including providing financial help, so that students from all backgrounds are encouraged to apply.
Will all English universities charge £3,000 for all of their courses?
No: some English universities have decided to charge lower fees for all their courses and other universities may decide to charge a lower fee for some of their courses. The Government's latest regulatory impact assessment estimates that around 9% of courses will charge a fee of less than £3000.
Are the student support systems different across the UK?
The above points refer to English students studying in England, however there are slightly different scenarios for English students studying in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and also for Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish students studying in England as well as in their respective home countries.
English students studying elsewhere in the UK will be charged up to the maximum figure below:
Wales: £1,200 in 2006/7 and £3,000 from 2007/8
Scotland: £1,700
Medicine courses in Scotland: £2,700
Northern Ireland: £3,000
What is the situation in Wales? What about students from Wales
The student finance system in Wales will remain the same until 2007/8. From then students living in Wales will be exempt from top-up fees at Welsh universities - but those living in England, Scotland or Northern Ireland will have to pay up to £3,000. Students living in Wales attending a Welsh university will be eligible for a £1,800 fee grant, so just have to pay the current flat-rate tuition fee of £1,200. Those attending university outside of Wales will still have to pay the full top-up fee amount. Further information is available at http://www.studentfinancewales.co.uk
What is the situation in Northern Ireland? What about students from Northern Ireland?
The order which allows universities in Northern Ireland to charge variable fees of up to £3,000 and which created a deferred repayment scheme was passed in April 2005. Further information is available at: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/05em1116.htm
Further information on the fee arrangements and student support arrangements for Northern Ireland students in Northern Ireland will appear shortly on the Department for Employment and Learning website at: http://www.delni.gov.uk/studentfinance
Students from Northern Ireland studying in England will be liable for the variable fees and information on the student support packages will be available shortly.
Students from Northern Ireland studying in Wales will be eligible for the same package of student support as if they were in Northern Ireland, but it is unclear what fee arrangements will be in place in Wales from 2006/07.
Students from Northern Ireland studying in Scotland will pay a fixed fee, likely to be between £1,700 and £1,900 a year. These students will be eligible for the same student support packages as if they studied in Northern Ireland.
What is the situation in Scotland? What about students from Scotland?
There have been no fundamental changes to the student support system for Scottish students studying in Scotland. There are no tuition fees but Scottish graduates pay a Graduate Endowment - a one-off payment at the end of their course. This is £2145 for 2005-06 and figures are not yet finalised for 2006-07. Students get a means tested loan towards their living costs and those from the poorest backgrounds are also eligible for a bursary.
English students studying in Scotland will pay a fixed-rate fee of £1,700 a year from 2006-07, with a separate rate of £2,700 for medical students. Payments may be deferred by taking out a loan, repayments will begin once graduates earn over £15,000. Students will be entitled to the same student support packages as in their home country
Scottish students studying in England will have to pay the variable fee, up to £3,000 a year. Payment may be deferred until after graduation by taking out a loan for fees. Repayments start once graduates are earning over £15,000. A means-tested maintenance loan will be available. Details are being finalised.
There is more detailed information on the Student Awards Agency for Scotland website:http://www.student-support-saas.gov.uk/
Your figures are incorrect for fees:
http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/paym...ition_fees.asp
How much do students have to pay?
From September 2006, universities and colleges in England will be able to charge new full time home undergraduate students up to £3,000 a year. Amounts will vary between courses as well as between different universities and colleges. For more information please see Universities and Colleges Admissions Service's website http://www.ucas.ac.uk/.
No student will have to pay upfront. They can apply to defer their fee. Government will pay on their behalf and they will repay the fee loan after graduation.
Existing students will not be asked to pay variable fees.
Universities will only be allowed to charge more than the 'standard fee' of around £1,200 if they have signed up to an Access Agreement with the new Office for Fair Access (OFFA). This agreement will set out the universities proposals for improving access and the action they will take to promote fair access, including providing financial help, so that students from all backgrounds are encouraged to apply.
Will all English universities charge £3,000 for all of their courses?
No: some English universities have decided to charge lower fees for all their courses and other universities may decide to charge a lower fee for some of their courses. The Government's latest regulatory impact assessment estimates that around 9% of courses will charge a fee of less than £3000.
Are the student support systems different across the UK?
The above points refer to English students studying in England, however there are slightly different scenarios for English students studying in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and also for Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish students studying in England as well as in their respective home countries.
English students studying elsewhere in the UK will be charged up to the maximum figure below:
Wales: £1,200 in 2006/7 and £3,000 from 2007/8
Scotland: £1,700
Medicine courses in Scotland: £2,700
Northern Ireland: £3,000
What is the situation in Wales? What about students from Wales
The student finance system in Wales will remain the same until 2007/8. From then students living in Wales will be exempt from top-up fees at Welsh universities - but those living in England, Scotland or Northern Ireland will have to pay up to £3,000. Students living in Wales attending a Welsh university will be eligible for a £1,800 fee grant, so just have to pay the current flat-rate tuition fee of £1,200. Those attending university outside of Wales will still have to pay the full top-up fee amount. Further information is available at http://www.studentfinancewales.co.uk
What is the situation in Northern Ireland? What about students from Northern Ireland?
The order which allows universities in Northern Ireland to charge variable fees of up to £3,000 and which created a deferred repayment scheme was passed in April 2005. Further information is available at: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/05em1116.htm
Further information on the fee arrangements and student support arrangements for Northern Ireland students in Northern Ireland will appear shortly on the Department for Employment and Learning website at: http://www.delni.gov.uk/studentfinance
Students from Northern Ireland studying in England will be liable for the variable fees and information on the student support packages will be available shortly.
Students from Northern Ireland studying in Wales will be eligible for the same package of student support as if they were in Northern Ireland, but it is unclear what fee arrangements will be in place in Wales from 2006/07.
Students from Northern Ireland studying in Scotland will pay a fixed fee, likely to be between £1,700 and £1,900 a year. These students will be eligible for the same student support packages as if they studied in Northern Ireland.
What is the situation in Scotland? What about students from Scotland?
There have been no fundamental changes to the student support system for Scottish students studying in Scotland. There are no tuition fees but Scottish graduates pay a Graduate Endowment - a one-off payment at the end of their course. This is £2145 for 2005-06 and figures are not yet finalised for 2006-07. Students get a means tested loan towards their living costs and those from the poorest backgrounds are also eligible for a bursary.
English students studying in Scotland will pay a fixed-rate fee of £1,700 a year from 2006-07, with a separate rate of £2,700 for medical students. Payments may be deferred by taking out a loan, repayments will begin once graduates earn over £15,000. Students will be entitled to the same student support packages as in their home country
Scottish students studying in England will have to pay the variable fee, up to £3,000 a year. Payment may be deferred until after graduation by taking out a loan for fees. Repayments start once graduates are earning over £15,000. A means-tested maintenance loan will be available. Details are being finalised.
There is more detailed information on the Student Awards Agency for Scotland website:http://www.student-support-saas.gov.uk/
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Modern apprenticeships - all very well, but in a declining manufacturing environment in the UK, and coupled with many people (not me) looking down on them, you would be forgiven for dismissing them.
Work-based learning - again fine, if you know what you are doing, but if not, you are going to look like a drifter on any CV.
Work-based learning - again fine, if you know what you are doing, but if not, you are going to look like a drifter on any CV.
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Joffyh...I don't know were you are thinking of studying but those rates for accommodation are ridiculous.
If you are prepared to pay just under £100.00 for self-catered accomodation at uni you are crazy. The whole point of uni is to manage money well and stick to a budget, not to wack up debts and splash out on luxury.
My total student debt is £17,000 ! That is with 4 snowboarding tips, I also played paintball at a national level and my university team (uk champs)
I assume you didn't even consider the fact that MOST people actually get jobs whilst at uni, I worked in a Bar, got me in £200.00 a month.
Even in my final year i payed £55.00 a week for accommodation, nowhere near £70.00.
To me your figures are over exaggerated.
If you are prepared to pay just under £100.00 for self-catered accomodation at uni you are crazy. The whole point of uni is to manage money well and stick to a budget, not to wack up debts and splash out on luxury.
My total student debt is £17,000 ! That is with 4 snowboarding tips, I also played paintball at a national level and my university team (uk champs)
I assume you didn't even consider the fact that MOST people actually get jobs whilst at uni, I worked in a Bar, got me in £200.00 a month.
Even in my final year i payed £55.00 a week for accommodation, nowhere near £70.00.
To me your figures are over exaggerated.
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--> I know its off the point a bit - but it does depend where you go to uni as to how much you pay - I was in halls in London and i was paying £100 a week for self catering accom....and believe me, there was no luxury apart from no bills....
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4kBeta...
I was at University of Aston slap bang in the centre of Birmingham. There were only two choices for accommodation, £70 a week for a 1970s tower blocks with 12-18 people sharing two toilets and two showers or £97 a week for en-suite. The price I paid isn't that ridiculous, cheaper than Uni's such as Birmingham, Warwick, Bristol and many of the London ones...
Compared to most other people I did manage my money! I appreciate what you say about getting a job and I hadn't taken that into consideration, if I had stayed then yes I would have worked to help support myself.
Anyway, this topic isn't about how much we each paid for accommodation. You think my figures are over exaggerated, well I'm sorry but you don't know my situation and what would be the point in me lying? Perhaps my student debt would have been less but the way things were looking the figures I stated didn't seem too ridiculous, talk to any student at Aston and you'll find many will quote a similar amount!
I was at University of Aston slap bang in the centre of Birmingham. There were only two choices for accommodation, £70 a week for a 1970s tower blocks with 12-18 people sharing two toilets and two showers or £97 a week for en-suite. The price I paid isn't that ridiculous, cheaper than Uni's such as Birmingham, Warwick, Bristol and many of the London ones...
Compared to most other people I did manage my money! I appreciate what you say about getting a job and I hadn't taken that into consideration, if I had stayed then yes I would have worked to help support myself.
Anyway, this topic isn't about how much we each paid for accommodation. You think my figures are over exaggerated, well I'm sorry but you don't know my situation and what would be the point in me lying? Perhaps my student debt would have been less but the way things were looking the figures I stated didn't seem too ridiculous, talk to any student at Aston and you'll find many will quote a similar amount!
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Not arguing with you, but it really shows were you priorities were. £100 would be above the budget of many, possibly yours?
In regards to a job, most people can't surive at uni without a job, only source of income so it was a bit silly not to consider that.
Anyhow..
In regards to the central London comment, that is too be expected but your find most students recieve a larger loan for that and obviously working in London is usually a higher pay, even part-time, so it is all proportional.
In regards to a job, most people can't surive at uni without a job, only source of income so it was a bit silly not to consider that.
Anyhow..
In regards to the central London comment, that is too be expected but your find most students recieve a larger loan for that and obviously working in London is usually a higher pay, even part-time, so it is all proportional.
Last edited by 4KBeta; 17th Jan 2008 at 10:16.
Re-Heat, I believe tuition fees will all be somewhere approaching £3,000. If its a bit less then I'm happy to chuck in the cost of 10 course books to bring it up to £3k a year..
You seem to think that Modern Apprenticeship involve oily overalls and spanners.
The range of Modern Apprenticeship that I ran included Electrical Circuit Board Design, Non Destructive Testing, Electrical Engineering, IT, HR, Financial Management, Customer Service, Procurement, Marketing and Facilities Management. Lots of which is relevant to the Service or Public Sector as well as to the 13% of the economy which is still manufacturing.
We digress but I still maintain that a degree that is 5+ years old with little experience is a poor "fall back" insurance. A much much better safety net would be 4 years work in the real world on a MA scheme gaining ONC/HNC and NVQ qualifications.
The fact the former costs you and the later pays you then its a no brainer for the youngster whose actual goal is to become a commercial pilot.
University is rubbish but fun.
Cheers
WWW
You seem to think that Modern Apprenticeship involve oily overalls and spanners.
The range of Modern Apprenticeship that I ran included Electrical Circuit Board Design, Non Destructive Testing, Electrical Engineering, IT, HR, Financial Management, Customer Service, Procurement, Marketing and Facilities Management. Lots of which is relevant to the Service or Public Sector as well as to the 13% of the economy which is still manufacturing.
We digress but I still maintain that a degree that is 5+ years old with little experience is a poor "fall back" insurance. A much much better safety net would be 4 years work in the real world on a MA scheme gaining ONC/HNC and NVQ qualifications.
The fact the former costs you and the later pays you then its a no brainer for the youngster whose actual goal is to become a commercial pilot.
University is rubbish but fun.
Cheers
WWW
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I still maintain that a degree that is 5+ years old with little experience is a poor "fall back" insurance.
(Apologies on your figures; I misread your post as having added £9k three times as 3 years' tuition fees). To clarify - the options you would weigh in that example are:
- £9k fees + £9k living costs - £earnings in holidays gross of tax as a student = £cost of uni
- £earnings of three years' post tax and costs
(of course, extending out to include graduate earnings might weigh on your decision as well, depending upon what you are able to earn post-uni).
Far easier to put the figures in each of the two above scenarios, in order to weigh the two options against each other transparently, than adding the lot together to present a "difference in cash position".
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I'm in a similar position to the original poster, although my position is a bit more complicated.
For a start, I wear glasses.
When I was younger I found out the regulations regarding commercial pilots' eye-sight and showed them to my optician, this was probably 4 or 5 years ago. My eyesight was within the boundaries but I doubt that would count for much at an interview where I'm sure it would be put down as an immediate negative against me, compared to the other potential employees to be interviewed.
Secondly, I’m already in my third year at university, studying (similarly) software development. While not really related to the industry I thoroughly want to be a part of (aviation, obviously), I have been living in Germany for the last five months as part of my placement year on my current course. Due to this I’ve picked up a bit of Deutsch in my time here which is of course a useful thing to have if I want to become a pilot, potentially flying around Europe – as well as the extra bullet point on my CV regarding studying in a foreign country to make me stand out from the crowd slightly.
However, I’ve been living at home during my time at university (bar this year away), so rather than being thousands in debt like most students I’m actually two to three thousand in the black – thanks to a well paid job with lots of overtime I had last summer. This does open up my options a bit.
I’ll be back in the UK next month and for the second part of my placement I need to get another job until the final year of my course starts in the summer, improving my finances even more. Due to this I have been very seriously considering spending what money I do have gaining a PPL on my own over the next year. I don’t really know what I’d do with it though; I just want to be up in the air and learning to fly as quickly as possible to be honest.
There’s always the possibility of going into an aviation-related course after my current one finishes, but some people in this thread have mentioned that they’re pretty useless. Thanks for the suggestions there though digitalsubstance, I just fired off an email to the course leader of the Bucks University one regarding applications. I’ve seen other courses before that offer training for your PPL and I always assumed that they were ‘free’ (as in, included as part of the tuition fee) – there’s no way that could be the case here since they’re offering a full CPL with IR, surely?
Anyway, thanks in advance for any information or help any of you guys can provide.
Sorry for the stupidly long post!
Dan
For a start, I wear glasses.
When I was younger I found out the regulations regarding commercial pilots' eye-sight and showed them to my optician, this was probably 4 or 5 years ago. My eyesight was within the boundaries but I doubt that would count for much at an interview where I'm sure it would be put down as an immediate negative against me, compared to the other potential employees to be interviewed.
Secondly, I’m already in my third year at university, studying (similarly) software development. While not really related to the industry I thoroughly want to be a part of (aviation, obviously), I have been living in Germany for the last five months as part of my placement year on my current course. Due to this I’ve picked up a bit of Deutsch in my time here which is of course a useful thing to have if I want to become a pilot, potentially flying around Europe – as well as the extra bullet point on my CV regarding studying in a foreign country to make me stand out from the crowd slightly.
However, I’ve been living at home during my time at university (bar this year away), so rather than being thousands in debt like most students I’m actually two to three thousand in the black – thanks to a well paid job with lots of overtime I had last summer. This does open up my options a bit.
I’ll be back in the UK next month and for the second part of my placement I need to get another job until the final year of my course starts in the summer, improving my finances even more. Due to this I have been very seriously considering spending what money I do have gaining a PPL on my own over the next year. I don’t really know what I’d do with it though; I just want to be up in the air and learning to fly as quickly as possible to be honest.
There’s always the possibility of going into an aviation-related course after my current one finishes, but some people in this thread have mentioned that they’re pretty useless. Thanks for the suggestions there though digitalsubstance, I just fired off an email to the course leader of the Bucks University one regarding applications. I’ve seen other courses before that offer training for your PPL and I always assumed that they were ‘free’ (as in, included as part of the tuition fee) – there’s no way that could be the case here since they’re offering a full CPL with IR, surely?
Anyway, thanks in advance for any information or help any of you guys can provide.
Sorry for the stupidly long post!
Dan