Getting an ME before CPL and doing some hour-building on twins?
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Getting an ME before CPL and doing some hour-building on twins?
Assuming it were economically viable and you could find someone willing to hire a Diamond Twinstar to an hour-builder, is there any point doing an ME at 70 hours P1 so that you have 20-30 hours twin time before CPL + IR?
You'd end up with an fATPL including nearly 50 hours twin time, but that's not really the point in the wider scheme of things in the job market; it's more that you have to build those pre-CPL 150 hours somehow and if it's not prohibitively expensive, why not get some twin hours on your logbook? It might even help with the IR?
Thoughts, debate, criticism? I'm ready!
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Well if you have the finances there is no problem. I think the main reason we wait for cpl to do this is to offset the costs of cpl/me/ir in doing your training for these as one contimuing training course.
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In my experience the only course we have here in the UK that benefits students on their CPL and IR is the IMC course!!!
speak to someone about it. It will make your CPL and IR a walk in the park if taught well.
speak to someone about it. It will make your CPL and IR a walk in the park if taught well.
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If it's economically viable then do it. It's got to be more fun than a C150/152 or whatever SEP you care to mention. For me, keeping the costs down during hours building plays a part but you have to do the course at some stage. Just keep an eye on minimum requirements for CPL such as PIC time, not that a ME rating will eat into this much at all. If it's more hours at CPL/ME/MEIR that you're looking for, take a look at PAT as some of their options for these courses will give you nearly 50 hrs twin time. I agree the IMC would be best to help working towards IR, but then again there's some good training software such as RANT XL that will also help you to work towards IR at a much lower cost but it is only a procedural training aid and no substitute for hands on flying.
Thread Starter
Good points all. I must admit I like the idea of the IMC as it would help with my hour-building. What, pray tell, is PAT?
Incidentally, the Twinstar hour-building would cost about £133 p/h wet including group monthly payments if you went to www.aircraftgrouping.com for 6 months.
I suppose you would have to factor in Multi engine type conversion training, Multi engine checkouts, and Garmin 1000 multi engine glass cockpit training, all at £45 per hour, plus higher landing fees.
If you're doing the IR in a Twinstar and would have to convert anyway, you may save time or money later on. Who knows...it's all so blimmin' expensive anyway!
Incidentally, the Twinstar hour-building would cost about £133 p/h wet including group monthly payments if you went to www.aircraftgrouping.com for 6 months.
I suppose you would have to factor in Multi engine type conversion training, Multi engine checkouts, and Garmin 1000 multi engine glass cockpit training, all at £45 per hour, plus higher landing fees.
If you're doing the IR in a Twinstar and would have to convert anyway, you may save time or money later on. Who knows...it's all so blimmin' expensive anyway!
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Your problem might be finding a suitable aircraft, or more so getting someone to hire you it with your minimum hours. Insuarnce companies will probably stipulate you need 'x' number of hours P1 time etc etc. Your probably better posting in the private flying forum, you might get a better response there. As far as an IR is concerned, prior ME time would certainly be beneficial but much more so if you do it in the same type of aircraft as the one you do the initial ME rating in. That way you wont have to learn a whole new aircraft again ie. speeds, power setings, systems etc.
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Hi Mike,
Yes, I think the insurance angle might be a problem in practise.
But it does occur to me that there's nothing to stop any PPL holder with over 70 hours PIC paying to do an IR at most flying schools and seeing as many flying schools use the DA-42 for IR training, insurance cover is probably not as much a problem as the concerns a group might have over the welfare of their plane!
I'm not sure the Private forum would be of much help on this one. I can't imagine a private owner of a DA-42 lending it to anyone! I wouldn't, but then I'll never be able to afford one. It's more a question of economics. Only groups or flying clubs would be able to hire it out at a reasonable rate - hence Aircraft Grouping or a few of the US schools come to mind.
As for the continuity issue - I know of at least one highly recommended Flying School whose commerical training involves the CPL in Warrior/Arrows, then ME in a Piper Seneca, and then a switch to DA-42 for the IR. As that's what I'll be doing, I was thinking getting DA-42 experience beforehand might be worthwhile.
Yes, I think the insurance angle might be a problem in practise.
But it does occur to me that there's nothing to stop any PPL holder with over 70 hours PIC paying to do an IR at most flying schools and seeing as many flying schools use the DA-42 for IR training, insurance cover is probably not as much a problem as the concerns a group might have over the welfare of their plane!
I'm not sure the Private forum would be of much help on this one. I can't imagine a private owner of a DA-42 lending it to anyone! I wouldn't, but then I'll never be able to afford one. It's more a question of economics. Only groups or flying clubs would be able to hire it out at a reasonable rate - hence Aircraft Grouping or a few of the US schools come to mind.
As for the continuity issue - I know of at least one highly recommended Flying School whose commerical training involves the CPL in Warrior/Arrows, then ME in a Piper Seneca, and then a switch to DA-42 for the IR. As that's what I'll be doing, I was thinking getting DA-42 experience beforehand might be worthwhile.
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But it does occur to me that there's nothing to stop any PPL holder with over 70 hours PIC paying to do an IR at most flying schools and seeing as many flying schools use the DA-42 for IR training, insurance cover is probably not as much a problem as the concerns a group might have over the welfare of their plane!
Mike,
not quite sure what you mean by that. 'yes' absolutely you can go to any school with the necessary requesites and sign up for an IR but remember you are under instruction, sat alongside a suitably qualified instructor. Insurance requirements are much different in that case as opposed to perhaps trying to 'solo' hire the same aircraft from the same school. For example - I did my IR at my local school in a senceca II, but surprise surprise they dont do solo hire.
As for the private flying forum, you will probably find lots of private owner ME pilots who may be able to help you out. I still think its worth a shot
Mike,
not quite sure what you mean by that. 'yes' absolutely you can go to any school with the necessary requesites and sign up for an IR but remember you are under instruction, sat alongside a suitably qualified instructor. Insurance requirements are much different in that case as opposed to perhaps trying to 'solo' hire the same aircraft from the same school. For example - I did my IR at my local school in a senceca II, but surprise surprise they dont do solo hire.
As for the private flying forum, you will probably find lots of private owner ME pilots who may be able to help you out. I still think its worth a shot
Thread Starter
Thanks Mike,
As you say, the reality of insurance for solo hire does not mimic that of dual hire, so I'm not hopeful. My school do advertise solo hire for all aircraft but I've no idea what other caveats exist.
I'll stick something on the Private Flying Forum.
Thanks
As you say, the reality of insurance for solo hire does not mimic that of dual hire, so I'm not hopeful. My school do advertise solo hire for all aircraft but I've no idea what other caveats exist.
I'll stick something on the Private Flying Forum.
Thanks
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PAT
Mikehotel152,
Just to clarify PAT:http://www.pat.uk.com/selecting.html
Look at options 3 & 5 for multi hours. Thinking about these for myself.
Noz
Just to clarify PAT:http://www.pat.uk.com/selecting.html
Look at options 3 & 5 for multi hours. Thinking about these for myself.
Noz
