MCL - Is it Mickey Mouse?
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This thread is hillarious now all we need is the oxford johnies to come on and tell us they are right as well
I did my fATPL for around £45K modular, so with this new thingy being a similar cost why bother?
I did my fATPL for around £45K modular, so with this new thingy being a similar cost why bother?
Last edited by Frank Furillo; 27th Jul 2007 at 13:55.
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I have to reiterate that this IS a valuable dicussion. With the Pilot Shortage looming (AGAIN! Happens a lot these looming shortages, dont they?), umerous training organisations are once again attempting to out-do each other.
Then the real firecracker of the MPL is dropped into the frey.
I have been targetted by the marketing propaganda because of my position, but am VERY much aware of the institution in the far east that is touting the MPL the highest and proudest at the moment.
They are indeed opening up in Sharjah as well as having a branch in the far east and a link to the UK.
Their connection to Gulf Air / Emirates is an unknown to me personally, but I will check it out.
I am afraid this debate may sway this way and that, but one thing will remain true. There will be limitations on the MPL, just as there were in the case thinking of introducing that Glass Cockpit Only Instrument Rating. A good point which was raised is that that the cost of the normal (?) route is near identical to the new MPL. Between £35k - 40k - ish.
However, theres a simple choice to be made, and delving deep into the mysteries of the wordings and implications of the JAR bods may not help at the early inception stages of this new licence. Do you want to go tried-and-tested and risk that the MPL newbies scream past you to the jobs, but you can rest on the probability that things wont change that fast to allow that to happen, OR, take a leap and see if the new "fast track" works?
Personally, I think if I were looking to get trained now, and had my heart firmly on an airline position, I would seek out those people on or nearly through the MPL, and probe their experiences to the full. Have any got the jobs yet? What was the transition like? etc.
If it comes back mostly good and successful, then I would jump on board the new boat. That would be incentive enough for me!
BUT, I would be interested in hearing from any such people on here, and also, from my experience, my sector, the VIP Jet market sector, the MPL is being ignored utterly and is of no value here. Possibly due to lack of type rating available to MPL persons on applicable aircraft in this sector... who knows...
Anyway, keep up the investigations and discussions guys... it is all good!
WTAS
Then the real firecracker of the MPL is dropped into the frey.
I have been targetted by the marketing propaganda because of my position, but am VERY much aware of the institution in the far east that is touting the MPL the highest and proudest at the moment.
They are indeed opening up in Sharjah as well as having a branch in the far east and a link to the UK.
Their connection to Gulf Air / Emirates is an unknown to me personally, but I will check it out.
I am afraid this debate may sway this way and that, but one thing will remain true. There will be limitations on the MPL, just as there were in the case thinking of introducing that Glass Cockpit Only Instrument Rating. A good point which was raised is that that the cost of the normal (?) route is near identical to the new MPL. Between £35k - 40k - ish.
However, theres a simple choice to be made, and delving deep into the mysteries of the wordings and implications of the JAR bods may not help at the early inception stages of this new licence. Do you want to go tried-and-tested and risk that the MPL newbies scream past you to the jobs, but you can rest on the probability that things wont change that fast to allow that to happen, OR, take a leap and see if the new "fast track" works?
Personally, I think if I were looking to get trained now, and had my heart firmly on an airline position, I would seek out those people on or nearly through the MPL, and probe their experiences to the full. Have any got the jobs yet? What was the transition like? etc.
If it comes back mostly good and successful, then I would jump on board the new boat. That would be incentive enough for me!
BUT, I would be interested in hearing from any such people on here, and also, from my experience, my sector, the VIP Jet market sector, the MPL is being ignored utterly and is of no value here. Possibly due to lack of type rating available to MPL persons on applicable aircraft in this sector... who knows...
Anyway, keep up the investigations and discussions guys... it is all good!
WTAS
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Frank F,
Did you complete your ATPL for around 45k GBP and have completed an A320 type rating and also done the base trainung. Please let me know. What are you flying now with your ATPL.
pfd99
Did you complete your ATPL for around 45k GBP and have completed an A320 type rating and also done the base trainung. Please let me know. What are you flying now with your ATPL.
pfd99
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According to ICAO website, MPL is equivalent to CPL + IR. It doesn't say anything about limitation to one airline & one aircraft type.
I guess someone with MPL can become a captain once s/he finishes ATPL theory and log 1500 hours.
I guess someone with MPL can become a captain once s/he finishes ATPL theory and log 1500 hours.
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I read before, that the MPL does not limit on a specific aircfraft.
You're wrong!
It is limited on a specific aircraft of course.
Sorry it is in french from Canada, but there is a recent article about the new licence (rubbish in my opinion) and a lot of pilots are sceptical:
" Le 23 novembre 2006, l’Organisation de l’aviation civile internationale (OACI) a autorisé ses pays membres à inclure dans ses règlements de l’air un nouveau type de certification, la licence de pilote en équipage multiple (ou MPL pour multi-crew pilot licence).
Le titulaire de ce brevet pourra occuper la fonction de copilote dans un type d’appareil précis, à la suite d’une formation intensive d’un minimum de 240 heures, sur des petits avions et des simulateurs de vol. Un élève-pilote qui réussira la formation pour un Airbus 340, devra travailler uniquement sur ce type d’appareil. "
use tanslator.
the last sentence means : a student pilot who passed the course on A340 will only have to work on this aircraft.
I read the whole article, they will use Full flight for the course.
In fact, a student pilot who want to fly a 737, will do a course on full flight 737.
here the link of the article. sorry it is in french, but i guess, or i hope that many people learned french at school
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20.../6584/CPSOLEIL
You're wrong!
It is limited on a specific aircraft of course.
Sorry it is in french from Canada, but there is a recent article about the new licence (rubbish in my opinion) and a lot of pilots are sceptical:
" Le 23 novembre 2006, l’Organisation de l’aviation civile internationale (OACI) a autorisé ses pays membres à inclure dans ses règlements de l’air un nouveau type de certification, la licence de pilote en équipage multiple (ou MPL pour multi-crew pilot licence).
Le titulaire de ce brevet pourra occuper la fonction de copilote dans un type d’appareil précis, à la suite d’une formation intensive d’un minimum de 240 heures, sur des petits avions et des simulateurs de vol. Un élève-pilote qui réussira la formation pour un Airbus 340, devra travailler uniquement sur ce type d’appareil. "
use tanslator.
the last sentence means : a student pilot who passed the course on A340 will only have to work on this aircraft.
I read the whole article, they will use Full flight for the course.
In fact, a student pilot who want to fly a 737, will do a course on full flight 737.
here the link of the article. sorry it is in french, but i guess, or i hope that many people learned french at school
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20.../6584/CPSOLEIL
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You are correct - you train for the A340, you only fly the A340. but like any otehr license, you need to convert if you want to fly another aircraft.
The whole point of the MPL is to get you into the RHS of an airliner in 12 months so of course - it will only be on that aircraft. And just like an ATPL, if your type rated on a 340, you can't go and fly on a 737! We know this.
I've done some further research and it seems that the MPL has even more limitations. For example, you learn the SOP of the airline (if the school is afiliated with an airline) or the SOP of the aircraft your training on. So perhaps I was wrong to assume that the pilot with a Type rating has a greater advantage than one with an ATPL.
At the end of the day, the airline you join may have its own SOP so you have to go on this course anyway - regardless of your experience on type.
I dunno. its a tough one.
The whole point of the MPL is to get you into the RHS of an airliner in 12 months so of course - it will only be on that aircraft. And just like an ATPL, if your type rated on a 340, you can't go and fly on a 737! We know this.
I've done some further research and it seems that the MPL has even more limitations. For example, you learn the SOP of the airline (if the school is afiliated with an airline) or the SOP of the aircraft your training on. So perhaps I was wrong to assume that the pilot with a Type rating has a greater advantage than one with an ATPL.
At the end of the day, the airline you join may have its own SOP so you have to go on this course anyway - regardless of your experience on type.
I dunno. its a tough one.
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I don't think they will be able to entertain my enquiry on the basis that the UK CAA at present do not/have not addopted the the latest Amendment no. 7 of JAR-FCL1 which contains all the JAA-MPL nitty gritty. UK ANO and the CAA PLD department are all based on JAR-FCL Amendment 5. 
Last edited by .Aero; 13th Sep 2007 at 23:03.
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God elp us !!!
Just a veiw from the left hand seat of a 78 tonne jet.
Most of the new integrated course first officers I see are only just able to land the jet, won't do a visual approach and are very reluctent to disengage the autopilot above 500ft and as for command decisions........................ that is a long way off!
The Modular guys are usualy much better, with the ability to hand fly the jet to an exeptable standard and are capable of reasonable "command decisions".
This multi crew licence is a disaster in the making and is the invention of accountants and people who have no idea what airline flying is all about and is the next money making plan by the integrated training providers, after all they charge the integrated students about £20,000 more than modular students for the same licence!
Why don't you prospective pilots get together and Kick the whole MCL and integrated course thing into touch.
If you all boycotted the integrated courses and went down the modular route you would all be £20,000 better off and IMO better pilots for it, the industry would have no option to employ you because of the pilot shortage.
The only people that the integrated course benifits is the training providors and the airlines who are all getting money and tax breaks at your expence.
Most of the new integrated course first officers I see are only just able to land the jet, won't do a visual approach and are very reluctent to disengage the autopilot above 500ft and as for command decisions........................ that is a long way off!
The Modular guys are usualy much better, with the ability to hand fly the jet to an exeptable standard and are capable of reasonable "command decisions".
This multi crew licence is a disaster in the making and is the invention of accountants and people who have no idea what airline flying is all about and is the next money making plan by the integrated training providers, after all they charge the integrated students about £20,000 more than modular students for the same licence!
Why don't you prospective pilots get together and Kick the whole MCL and integrated course thing into touch.
If you all boycotted the integrated courses and went down the modular route you would all be £20,000 better off and IMO better pilots for it, the industry would have no option to employ you because of the pilot shortage.
The only people that the integrated course benifits is the training providors and the airlines who are all getting money and tax breaks at your expence.
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A and C, you might want to copy your post into "Rumours and News" thread "More needed, Less interested".
Only the totally bonkers airline industry could possibly argue that a pilot with little experience is more useful than an experienced commercial pilot who is either moving from single crew to multi crew ops or from a light to a heavy machine. It might be harder to teach an old dog new tricks but you just can't buy experience.
Only the totally bonkers airline industry could possibly argue that a pilot with little experience is more useful than an experienced commercial pilot who is either moving from single crew to multi crew ops or from a light to a heavy machine. It might be harder to teach an old dog new tricks but you just can't buy experience.
