IMC training is it worth it?
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IMC training is it worth it?
Hi all,
Sorry if this questions been asked a million times already, new to Pprune and would like a bit of advice from those in the know.
Had my PPL for a few months now and have about 80-90 hours so far, now decided to go down the ATPL route and booked my class one medical today (getting worried about it already).
Is it worth doing the IMC course in order to build hours?
I posed the question to my instructors and got a mixed response. One said that there was no real advantage and that I would be wasting my money, another said that would possibly help from the point of view that airlines like to see structured hours building (as opposed to just burning holes in the sky) but depends if I had the money to blow on it, although he did seem to think that it may help with the IR if I got a bit of early experience in.
The other instructor said he thought it would be a good stepping stone to prepare me for the full instrument rating later on, and possibly help me with some of the questions in the ATPL exams. He also seemed to think that a bit of basic instrument training with flying time in less than perfect conditions would be a good experience.
Also, the weather is doing my head in at the moment as I can't get any hours in
so it would help me for hours building too!!!
Anybody got any thoughts or suggestions?
Sorry if this questions been asked a million times already, new to Pprune and would like a bit of advice from those in the know.
Had my PPL for a few months now and have about 80-90 hours so far, now decided to go down the ATPL route and booked my class one medical today (getting worried about it already).
Is it worth doing the IMC course in order to build hours?
I posed the question to my instructors and got a mixed response. One said that there was no real advantage and that I would be wasting my money, another said that would possibly help from the point of view that airlines like to see structured hours building (as opposed to just burning holes in the sky) but depends if I had the money to blow on it, although he did seem to think that it may help with the IR if I got a bit of early experience in.
The other instructor said he thought it would be a good stepping stone to prepare me for the full instrument rating later on, and possibly help me with some of the questions in the ATPL exams. He also seemed to think that a bit of basic instrument training with flying time in less than perfect conditions would be a good experience.
Also, the weather is doing my head in at the moment as I can't get any hours in
so it would help me for hours building too!!!Anybody got any thoughts or suggestions?
Yes, Do the IMC course as part of your structured hour building. Not only will it enable you to stay safe in IMC conditions, but it will also stand you in good stead when you come to do the IR. Ok, it may cost a bit more on the hourly rate but hey, who said flying was cheap?
My advice is make the hours flown during hour building, as useful as possible, rather than bashing the local area.
My advice is make the hours flown during hour building, as useful as possible, rather than bashing the local area.
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Could not agree more. Plus the hours will look a lot more appealing to a prospective employer than spam camming it about in cheap as chips 50 hour blocks.
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IMC
You may have seen this recent thread
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=277810
I think it is a difficult one
If you fly infrequently and need to brush up it is perhaps worth it
And should make you better pilot?
Would an airline be interested to see that you had done an IMC?
If there was an interesting bit to it maybe?
If there was a credit to the IR (and there is not) then it would make sense
The only hours credit I see is a hidden one in that with good training your IR might be easier and less chance of repeating stuff if you find IR tricky
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=277810
I think it is a difficult one
If you fly infrequently and need to brush up it is perhaps worth it
And should make you better pilot?
Would an airline be interested to see that you had done an IMC?
If there was an interesting bit to it maybe?
If there was a credit to the IR (and there is not) then it would make sense
The only hours credit I see is a hidden one in that with good training your IR might be easier and less chance of repeating stuff if you find IR tricky
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Turbine,
I think you are looking at it from the wrong angle. I understand in the commercial world the IMC is a mickey mouse ticket...but is it really?
1) Obtaining the IMC rating means the pilots skill needs to improve quiet substantially to the basic PPL pilots.
2) By the time the IMC rated pilots get their IR (if they are going commercial) they will have had more IMC/IFR experience than the average 55 fresh houred CPL/IR/ATPL. Which means more instrument approaches and procedures.
So I think the angle is not to look at the worth of the IMC but the experience it will provide the pilot. And as I mentioned I think the 15 hours it takes to get the IMC are more valuable hours in terms of quality than 30 hours cheap as chips package hours.
I think you are looking at it from the wrong angle. I understand in the commercial world the IMC is a mickey mouse ticket...but is it really?
1) Obtaining the IMC rating means the pilots skill needs to improve quiet substantially to the basic PPL pilots.
2) By the time the IMC rated pilots get their IR (if they are going commercial) they will have had more IMC/IFR experience than the average 55 fresh houred CPL/IR/ATPL. Which means more instrument approaches and procedures.
So I think the angle is not to look at the worth of the IMC but the experience it will provide the pilot. And as I mentioned I think the 15 hours it takes to get the IMC are more valuable hours in terms of quality than 30 hours cheap as chips package hours.
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That was quick, I didn't expect to get any responses until I checked back here tomorrow!!!
With a view to the response, I'll take a couple weeks off work and do the IMC as an intensive course once I manage to scrape together a few more quid. I just gave a large amount of my flying budget for this month to the CAA for the class 1 medical that I booked today for a couple of weeks time.
Thankyou all for your advice.
With a view to the response, I'll take a couple weeks off work and do the IMC as an intensive course once I manage to scrape together a few more quid. I just gave a large amount of my flying budget for this month to the CAA for the class 1 medical that I booked today for a couple of weeks time.
Thankyou all for your advice.
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My personal opinion is that if you are going on to do the CPL/IR training as soon as you get to 150hrs then I wouldn't bother. I didn't, and it didn't affect my IR one bit, I still obtained a FTP, and still did well on the course, even at the age of 33.
The other consideration is the money, if you absolutely need your 100hrs P1 by the time you apply for your CPL/IR then the 15hrs? (it is 15 isn't it?) flown on the IMC won't count as P1 thus meaning an extra 15hrs to be paid for to fly P1.
If money is no object then I would definitely go for it and do it, but only you know your situation and how you stand finacially etc etc.
gcolyer, in the grand scheme of things 15hrs more in IMC, or even 30 more hrs in IMC in an SEP won't make a blind bit of difference when applying for jobs?
Dean
The other consideration is the money, if you absolutely need your 100hrs P1 by the time you apply for your CPL/IR then the 15hrs? (it is 15 isn't it?) flown on the IMC won't count as P1 thus meaning an extra 15hrs to be paid for to fly P1.
If money is no object then I would definitely go for it and do it, but only you know your situation and how you stand finacially etc etc.
gcolyer, in the grand scheme of things 15hrs more in IMC, or even 30 more hrs in IMC in an SEP won't make a blind bit of difference when applying for jobs?
Dean
Last edited by Deano777; 26th Jun 2007 at 22:20.
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What I am syaing is the 15 hours experience and then whatever else IFR experience you build up after is far better than the cheap as chips bundled spamcan hours.
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gcolyer I hear you, and you are right, but will this make you more marketable to the airlines? 30 odd hrs in IMC? (15 for the course + some) I can't see it having that much of an impact unless it's twin time
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I did one years back, never used it in anger and dont believe it to be that useful a rating. Save your money, plough it in to more twin time either during your CPL or IR training. You can practise instrument approaches and procedures on a PC these days. Get yourself an instrument trainer such as RANT.
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Good point about getting multi time. I and a fairly point point about using RANT. Howerver uncertified (un loggable) sims are not as good as getting in IMC conditions.
Maybe the airlines don't give a monkeys about an IMC rating, but I personally think it is worth doing in between the PPL and IR.
Maybe the airlines don't give a monkeys about an IMC rating, but I personally think it is worth doing in between the PPL and IR.
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IMC a very good idea !
As stated above the airlines don't give a toss about the IMC but your bank balance might!
In my 31 years in the aviation business the IMC was the one of hardest things that I have done (the other was the A320 ground engineers course) learning to fly on instruments is something that is totaly new to you and no matter how much "microsoft" time you have there is no substitute for real flying.
Having got IMC the training for the IR was just practice and getting a bit more polish on the performance.
Take a hard look at the cost of an hour or two of extra training on a twin at the end of the CPL course and you will see that the IMC at flying club rates is a very good buy.
Why not take a week and do the IMC on the Channel Islands and take advantage of the low tax, lack of VAT and the well equiped airfields with a lot of IFR traffic, now that would be a good start towards an IR without breaking the bank.
In my 31 years in the aviation business the IMC was the one of hardest things that I have done (the other was the A320 ground engineers course) learning to fly on instruments is something that is totaly new to you and no matter how much "microsoft" time you have there is no substitute for real flying.
Having got IMC the training for the IR was just practice and getting a bit more polish on the performance.
Take a hard look at the cost of an hour or two of extra training on a twin at the end of the CPL course and you will see that the IMC at flying club rates is a very good buy.
Why not take a week and do the IMC on the Channel Islands and take advantage of the low tax, lack of VAT and the well equiped airfields with a lot of IFR traffic, now that would be a good start towards an IR without breaking the bank.
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Agreed about real IMC being better than a sim. Unlikely that you will do the IMC rating in real IMC conditions though? I seem to remember having to wear a silly hat whilst flying an aircraft that was not approved for instrument flight. This unfortunately is the case when doing a rating such as an IMC, you wont do it in the correct equipment, an aircraft with probably only 1 VOR an ADF that barely works, no HSI and no RMI. You will be bumbling around the country side off route in class G airspace. A far cry from what you will be dealing with flying an aerpoplane properly equipped for IFR flight in controlled airspace. How about getting one of your pilot buddies, a silly hat and the cheapest club aircraft as described above, get him to be safety pilot and go and practise flying on instruments. You can practise all you like without shelling out all that extra dosh. Its a pointless rating that hands you the bare minimum skills for IFR flight, I dont think any pilot should go near weather unless they are fully qualified and current instrument rated.
