Bond Aviation
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Hell bent on flying
I as a current instructor for Bond am very interested to read your post. It is interesting in that the comments you make regarding the ground school, SIM and base training TRTO portions of the course are “very good indeed”. I therefore think that you saying “stay far away” is a little unfair to the hardworking instructors and admin staff at Bond and is purely based on the situation you find yourself in with regards to line training provision on the B737.
As you know, and were no doubt aware when you started your course with them, the line training portion of your course is done through a third party airline and bond act purely as a broker for this portion of the course. They neither own, nor lease, nor operate any aircraft and are only a TRTO. Clearly I am aware that there have been problems and significant delays in providing the line training over the last 12 months. However, this I understand was outside there control and unforeseen due to an overnight fleet reduction within the airline completing the line training on their behalf. In fact I know that recent developments have seen a number of students begin there training (I have completed some of there recurrent training) as well as a deal being struck with another line training provider which has been offered as I understand it to all students in the queue at a discounted rate. I would be surprised if you are not either in the process of or have not already been rostered for recurrent SIM training / line training. If not could it be because of your attitude, people do not respond to threats and “rants” very well in my experience its not good CRM! Just a thought!
Also I may be wrong but have you actually paid for any line training with Bond? I understand that most, if not all of the students currently waiting for line training have not paid nor been asked to pay and therefore it is not like Bond have taken the money and run off into the sunset like some other flying training organisations have done in the past. They are doing there best to find other alternatives and communicate them to their students in a professional manner.
I have been in the industry for some time now and the business of paying for line training through Bond or any other provider for that matter on commercial operations is not as easy as going into a supermarket and buying your groceries. Things change, airlines change, fleets change, decision makers change, situations change etc. We are in a highly changeable industry and we as professional pilots who should be able to adapt. If you are not happy with the service you have got with regards to the line training, fine, move on and find another operator to do it with. Vote with your feet, they don’t owe you anything, you don’t owe them anything (do you?).
Also to say that they are still selling the programme and cannot fulfil there commitments is in fact not true at all. I have checked and the maximum line training offered on the B737 is 10 sectors and all students looking at completing that are now pre-warned that it is on an availability basis only and are being offered line training with another provider as I am sure you have been at a discounted rate.
I stay in touch with a number of students I have taught through Bond in the passed and all are more than satisfied with the training they have received and I can honestly say that of the many TRTO’s I have had the pleasure of dealing with Bond is one of the best.
Lookoutbelow
I as a current instructor for Bond am very interested to read your post. It is interesting in that the comments you make regarding the ground school, SIM and base training TRTO portions of the course are “very good indeed”. I therefore think that you saying “stay far away” is a little unfair to the hardworking instructors and admin staff at Bond and is purely based on the situation you find yourself in with regards to line training provision on the B737.
As you know, and were no doubt aware when you started your course with them, the line training portion of your course is done through a third party airline and bond act purely as a broker for this portion of the course. They neither own, nor lease, nor operate any aircraft and are only a TRTO. Clearly I am aware that there have been problems and significant delays in providing the line training over the last 12 months. However, this I understand was outside there control and unforeseen due to an overnight fleet reduction within the airline completing the line training on their behalf. In fact I know that recent developments have seen a number of students begin there training (I have completed some of there recurrent training) as well as a deal being struck with another line training provider which has been offered as I understand it to all students in the queue at a discounted rate. I would be surprised if you are not either in the process of or have not already been rostered for recurrent SIM training / line training. If not could it be because of your attitude, people do not respond to threats and “rants” very well in my experience its not good CRM! Just a thought!
Also I may be wrong but have you actually paid for any line training with Bond? I understand that most, if not all of the students currently waiting for line training have not paid nor been asked to pay and therefore it is not like Bond have taken the money and run off into the sunset like some other flying training organisations have done in the past. They are doing there best to find other alternatives and communicate them to their students in a professional manner.
I have been in the industry for some time now and the business of paying for line training through Bond or any other provider for that matter on commercial operations is not as easy as going into a supermarket and buying your groceries. Things change, airlines change, fleets change, decision makers change, situations change etc. We are in a highly changeable industry and we as professional pilots who should be able to adapt. If you are not happy with the service you have got with regards to the line training, fine, move on and find another operator to do it with. Vote with your feet, they don’t owe you anything, you don’t owe them anything (do you?).
Also to say that they are still selling the programme and cannot fulfil there commitments is in fact not true at all. I have checked and the maximum line training offered on the B737 is 10 sectors and all students looking at completing that are now pre-warned that it is on an availability basis only and are being offered line training with another provider as I am sure you have been at a discounted rate.
I stay in touch with a number of students I have taught through Bond in the passed and all are more than satisfied with the training they have received and I can honestly say that of the many TRTO’s I have had the pleasure of dealing with Bond is one of the best.
Lookoutbelow
Lookoutbelow
Whilst much of what you say is factually correct RW, I think it fails to address the central issue that students are attracted to go to Bond for their TR on the basis that line training is offered, yet the line training availability always seems to be 'next week' or 'next month'.
I am aware of students who enrolled on TR courses as long ago as March and April 2006, completing their TR one year ago, who still haven't received any line training. In other words, they have been kept in limbo for a whole year, waiting for line training they were offered, but which hasn't materialised. Many will have given up well paid jobs to start the Bond course after being assured it will be be completed in certain timescales, only to find that up to a year later they still haven't received a crucial component of their chosen course. It would seem that Hell-bent-on-flying is one such disgruntled student.
There are many TRTOs that potential jet pilots can go to for their TR training, but as I said, Bond appears to use the enticement of line training to attract students. The problem then is that many who pay for say a 737 TR with Bond but who then find that they can't get their line training might then go to say Ryanair to seek employment, only to learn that Ryanair would only accept a new 737 FO who had done a TR at their approved school. Unless that 737 pilot who has already shelled out over £20,000 to Bond is prepared to pay for their TR all over again (and who in their right mind would consider doing that?!), they have effectively excluded themselves from employment with the biggest 737 employer in the UK, by being lured to Bond and the offer of line training.
You yourself said:
"If you are not happy with the service you have got with regards to the line training, fine, move on and find another operator to do it with. Vote with your feet"
but the problem is most people are finding out about the lack of line training too late to realise the doors they are closing by starting a TR with Bond, when historically there is a low probability of completing line training in reasonable timescales.
It is interesting that your response above bears remarkable parallels to the one you wrote under the 'Astraeus' thread on 7th September 2005. It seems little has changed.
PM
Whilst much of what you say is factually correct RW, I think it fails to address the central issue that students are attracted to go to Bond for their TR on the basis that line training is offered, yet the line training availability always seems to be 'next week' or 'next month'.
I am aware of students who enrolled on TR courses as long ago as March and April 2006, completing their TR one year ago, who still haven't received any line training. In other words, they have been kept in limbo for a whole year, waiting for line training they were offered, but which hasn't materialised. Many will have given up well paid jobs to start the Bond course after being assured it will be be completed in certain timescales, only to find that up to a year later they still haven't received a crucial component of their chosen course. It would seem that Hell-bent-on-flying is one such disgruntled student.
There are many TRTOs that potential jet pilots can go to for their TR training, but as I said, Bond appears to use the enticement of line training to attract students. The problem then is that many who pay for say a 737 TR with Bond but who then find that they can't get their line training might then go to say Ryanair to seek employment, only to learn that Ryanair would only accept a new 737 FO who had done a TR at their approved school. Unless that 737 pilot who has already shelled out over £20,000 to Bond is prepared to pay for their TR all over again (and who in their right mind would consider doing that?!), they have effectively excluded themselves from employment with the biggest 737 employer in the UK, by being lured to Bond and the offer of line training.
You yourself said:
"If you are not happy with the service you have got with regards to the line training, fine, move on and find another operator to do it with. Vote with your feet"
but the problem is most people are finding out about the lack of line training too late to realise the doors they are closing by starting a TR with Bond, when historically there is a low probability of completing line training in reasonable timescales.
It is interesting that your response above bears remarkable parallels to the one you wrote under the 'Astraeus' thread on 7th September 2005. It seems little has changed.
PM
Last edited by pilotmike; 21st May 2007 at 21:04.
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Pilot Mike,
Everything I said in the above post is factually correct to the best of my knowledge.
Bond Aviation Solutions has trained around 400 pilots in nearly 5 years of trading both as part of Astraeus and since there separation last year. Of the 400 pilots, I would estimate 300 have completed line training to some degree. During that 5 years there have been two “bottle necks” to B737 line training, it has only ever effected the B737 and not the B757 I will point out.
You are correct I did post a similar post back in Sep 2005 and this was about the time of the first bottle neck. You are also quite correct little has changed – that being line training is still a difficult product to supply, especially when you have no direct control over it. As I said on my previous post buying line training is not as easy as picking something off the shelf and paying for it and if you do not realise that when paying for a type rating course costing c.£16-20k then I suggest you as a professional pilot have not done your homework or research…as you rightly said this has been documented before both with Bond and other line training providers. Bond when asked about timescales for completing line training have always to my knowledge given “predicted” or “likely” timescales and I have often heard the phrase used “subject to operational availability”. Bond do not contract legally to timescales because of the very nature of the product and because they do not have direct control over it.
Interestingly I had to speak to a couple of colleagues last night on another matter, both were ex-Bond students, both completed line training during 2006 and both were in and out with 100Hrs in less than 6 months from the day they started the ground school. Both now work for Astraeus as FO’s on the B737.
I would also like to make you aware of the following:
12 B737-FO’s taken on by AEU in 2006 direct from completed 100Hr LT courses
6 B737-FO’s taken on in 2007 by AEU already direct from 100 Hr LT Courses
6 B757-FO’s taken on by AEU in 2007 already direct from LT Packages
At least 6 B757-FO’s taken on by AEU in 2006 from line training packages
That is just by AEU……..No other airlines…….
I believe that is the selling point of the Bond courses, the TRTO provides excellent training and provides a very real chance that you will get a job on completion. It does not work for all and that is made cleat before you start a course, nothing is promised! What is promised is excellent training in the TRTO, guaranteed base training, a friendly and conducive learning environment and value for money. I honestly believe that is delivered, time and time again by the TRTO.
You are correct there are a number of other TRTO’s that offer B737 TR training, how many even attempt to offer the line training product as a bolt on? Very few I suggest! That is because it is problematic and does not always run true to course. Again this is the aviation industry we are in and if you haven’t discovered it is unpredictable and highly changeable then I am very surprised. Bond get approx three calls a week from unhappy students who have signed up for just the basic TR at TRTO’s across Europe and subsequently the TRTO cannot even offer base training let alone line training….. The guys can’t even get the type on their licence!
With regards Ryanair etc, they do not offer hours on type as a bolt on to a SF TR course, you are comparing two completely different products here. All students have choices to make after qualifying with fATPL, some try flying instructing, some try cadetship schemes (FR / CTC ) some fire off endless CV’s, some pay for type ratings. Bond don’t force students to come on courses or sign up for line training, in fact they do very little marketing at all compared to many other FTO/TRTO’s most students come via word of mouth and that speaks volumes! Bond actually started offering the LT due to popular demand from the early students that enrolled on the TR courses.
I also disagree with you comment about “finding out to late” and the “doors closing” for students having completed line training. One of the largest line training providers advertises in the back of Flight International every week for about 10 Years and has been offering 300 Hrs LT on B737’s at only a slightly higher cost than Bonds 100 Hrs just as long. Not only that they work closely with Bond, with Bond being there preferred supplier of rated students from the UK and Bond are happy to introduce students to them and even facilitate a discount! However, the above company, the largest line training provider in the world that I am aware of, also suffer delays, not always there fault, it is the nature of the beast unfortunately! Again this is all well documented.
I will re-iterate, If you are unhappy for a product that you haven’t even paid for, that for reasons outside a company’s control they can no longer provide in the “anticipated” timescale, then you as a customer (all be it you haven’t paid) have the right to move on and find another supplier. It really is as easy as that, there is no contract.
Mike F I wish you well with your new job ….
Lookoutbelow
Everything I said in the above post is factually correct to the best of my knowledge.
Bond Aviation Solutions has trained around 400 pilots in nearly 5 years of trading both as part of Astraeus and since there separation last year. Of the 400 pilots, I would estimate 300 have completed line training to some degree. During that 5 years there have been two “bottle necks” to B737 line training, it has only ever effected the B737 and not the B757 I will point out.
You are correct I did post a similar post back in Sep 2005 and this was about the time of the first bottle neck. You are also quite correct little has changed – that being line training is still a difficult product to supply, especially when you have no direct control over it. As I said on my previous post buying line training is not as easy as picking something off the shelf and paying for it and if you do not realise that when paying for a type rating course costing c.£16-20k then I suggest you as a professional pilot have not done your homework or research…as you rightly said this has been documented before both with Bond and other line training providers. Bond when asked about timescales for completing line training have always to my knowledge given “predicted” or “likely” timescales and I have often heard the phrase used “subject to operational availability”. Bond do not contract legally to timescales because of the very nature of the product and because they do not have direct control over it.
Interestingly I had to speak to a couple of colleagues last night on another matter, both were ex-Bond students, both completed line training during 2006 and both were in and out with 100Hrs in less than 6 months from the day they started the ground school. Both now work for Astraeus as FO’s on the B737.
I would also like to make you aware of the following:
12 B737-FO’s taken on by AEU in 2006 direct from completed 100Hr LT courses
6 B737-FO’s taken on in 2007 by AEU already direct from 100 Hr LT Courses
6 B757-FO’s taken on by AEU in 2007 already direct from LT Packages
At least 6 B757-FO’s taken on by AEU in 2006 from line training packages
That is just by AEU……..No other airlines…….
I believe that is the selling point of the Bond courses, the TRTO provides excellent training and provides a very real chance that you will get a job on completion. It does not work for all and that is made cleat before you start a course, nothing is promised! What is promised is excellent training in the TRTO, guaranteed base training, a friendly and conducive learning environment and value for money. I honestly believe that is delivered, time and time again by the TRTO.
You are correct there are a number of other TRTO’s that offer B737 TR training, how many even attempt to offer the line training product as a bolt on? Very few I suggest! That is because it is problematic and does not always run true to course. Again this is the aviation industry we are in and if you haven’t discovered it is unpredictable and highly changeable then I am very surprised. Bond get approx three calls a week from unhappy students who have signed up for just the basic TR at TRTO’s across Europe and subsequently the TRTO cannot even offer base training let alone line training….. The guys can’t even get the type on their licence!
With regards Ryanair etc, they do not offer hours on type as a bolt on to a SF TR course, you are comparing two completely different products here. All students have choices to make after qualifying with fATPL, some try flying instructing, some try cadetship schemes (FR / CTC ) some fire off endless CV’s, some pay for type ratings. Bond don’t force students to come on courses or sign up for line training, in fact they do very little marketing at all compared to many other FTO/TRTO’s most students come via word of mouth and that speaks volumes! Bond actually started offering the LT due to popular demand from the early students that enrolled on the TR courses.
I also disagree with you comment about “finding out to late” and the “doors closing” for students having completed line training. One of the largest line training providers advertises in the back of Flight International every week for about 10 Years and has been offering 300 Hrs LT on B737’s at only a slightly higher cost than Bonds 100 Hrs just as long. Not only that they work closely with Bond, with Bond being there preferred supplier of rated students from the UK and Bond are happy to introduce students to them and even facilitate a discount! However, the above company, the largest line training provider in the world that I am aware of, also suffer delays, not always there fault, it is the nature of the beast unfortunately! Again this is all well documented.
I will re-iterate, If you are unhappy for a product that you haven’t even paid for, that for reasons outside a company’s control they can no longer provide in the “anticipated” timescale, then you as a customer (all be it you haven’t paid) have the right to move on and find another supplier. It really is as easy as that, there is no contract.
Mike F I wish you well with your new job ….
Lookoutbelow
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Hell bent on flying,
I am assuming that dspite your "RHants" you still wish to complete your LPC/OPC in preperation for the line training we are currently arranging for you in GOT?
Regards
LOB
I am assuming that dspite your "RHants" you still wish to complete your LPC/OPC in preperation for the line training we are currently arranging for you in GOT?
Regards
LOB
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Actually in training with another provider now, start flying the line in the next few weeks!
You still failed to address the issue!
P.S you had all the money upfront which I am still trying to get back for the unnecessary Astraeus specific courses.
You still failed to address the issue!
P.S you had all the money upfront which I am still trying to get back for the unnecessary Astraeus specific courses.
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Lookout Below
Can you therefore please clarify the relationship between Bond and Astraeus, including who owns each company and their relationship with each other? I thought Astraeus owned Bond.
...the line training portion of your course is done through a third party airline and bond act purely as a broker for this portion of the course. They neither own, nor lease, nor operate any aircraft and are only a TRTO.
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Hell bent on flying,
We should all be professionals on this forum, I understand that you have been inconvenienced and congratulate you on your development. I cannot personally comment on a rumour network about your individual case, it would not be appropriate as I am neither employed by the company nor know the full facts with regards to your situation. I think I have addressed the issue fully from my stand point. If you are not happy move on and you are and thats that...
I have explained the complexity about providing line training and tried for those that don't fully understand to calrify the situation. I have also tried on Bonds behalf to deffend their core business which is providing TRTO training as I think that they do a pretty good job of that!
As a professional pilot myself, I would urge you to also take a professional approach and communicate your plans officially to the bond admin team so they can offer your LPC and line training position to another student.
LOB
We should all be professionals on this forum, I understand that you have been inconvenienced and congratulate you on your development. I cannot personally comment on a rumour network about your individual case, it would not be appropriate as I am neither employed by the company nor know the full facts with regards to your situation. I think I have addressed the issue fully from my stand point. If you are not happy move on and you are and thats that...
I have explained the complexity about providing line training and tried for those that don't fully understand to calrify the situation. I have also tried on Bonds behalf to deffend their core business which is providing TRTO training as I think that they do a pretty good job of that!
As a professional pilot myself, I would urge you to also take a professional approach and communicate your plans officially to the bond admin team so they can offer your LPC and line training position to another student.
LOB
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Also Hell Bent on Flying,
How "are you trying to get money" out of bond for the AEU OCC course when as far as they are concerned you are due in the SIM next week and line training shortly after with AEU. They are saying you have not communicated the above to them and you are still apparently active in the system and they have had nothing to suspect otherwise......
How "are you trying to get money" out of bond for the AEU OCC course when as far as they are concerned you are due in the SIM next week and line training shortly after with AEU. They are saying you have not communicated the above to them and you are still apparently active in the system and they have had nothing to suspect otherwise......
. RW
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I am 99.9999999999% sure Richard... Phone me or someone at Bond up then and discuss your issues in a professional manner and then we don't need to "go round the houses" do we.
Lookoutbelow
You are to be commended on your long and thorough defence of Bond Aviaton Solutions' position as you see it. If there was an award for loyalty, you would surely be top of the list.
I would not ordinarily wish to prolong the discussion on the merits or otherwise of Bond's training in this public forum, but there are a few points you have raised which I feel deserve further comment - and publicly, as you have made your points in this public forum.
True, nothing was promised, but many students have been enticed by the 'strong assurances' given by a senior manager (who has since left Bond) that the line training would be completed within a month or two of completing the type rating. I was certainly given those assurances before considering starting a course with Bond. Sadly, those assurances haven't materialised for many students.
This sounds great - for those who did actually get the line training, but is no help to those who are still waiting. That is the whole point - people who get line trained invariably have no trouble finding employment. That is exactly the allure of the advertised Bond package. And that is exactly why the lack of line training is so hard to accept - especially when over £20,000 has been shelled out on the TR already by many students, who then feel stuck without receiving the 2nd half of the training package which they were expecting.
Possibly it is being reminded of these statistics which might make the distinct lack of line training for the past year much harder to bear for many who are still without a job or line training.
Quite! They offer a job, where you get paid to complete your line training with them after completing a self funded TR with their approved training provider. But by doing the TR with Bond and then not getting the line training effectively excludes students from switching to go that route, unless they are prepared to fully repeat their TR, at huge cost to themselves.
That was exactly my point about "finding out about the lack of line training too late to realise the doors they are closing by starting a TR with Bond".
I'm sure that when Bond manage to secure a steady, reliable source of line training on the 737 again, it will make them the excellent training provider which they aspire to be. Certainly the quality of the TR training was never in doubt, as you are (roj) aware.
I don't wish to prolong the debate publicly, but thank you for taking the time to respond to my earlier points. Thanks also for your good wishes, which are reciprocated.
PM
You are to be commended on your long and thorough defence of Bond Aviaton Solutions' position as you see it. If there was an award for loyalty, you would surely be top of the list.
I would not ordinarily wish to prolong the discussion on the merits or otherwise of Bond's training in this public forum, but there are a few points you have raised which I feel deserve further comment - and publicly, as you have made your points in this public forum.
Bond when asked about timescales for completing line training have always to my knowledge given “predicted” or “likely” timescales and I have often heard the phrase used “subject to operational availability”
both were in and out with 100Hrs in less than 6 months from the day they started the ground school. Both now work for Astraeus as FO’s on the B737.
I would also like to make you aware of the following:
12 B737-FO’s taken on by AEU in 2006 direct from completed 100Hr LT courses
6 B737-FO’s taken on in 2007 by AEU already direct from 100 Hr LT Courses
6 B757-FO’s taken on by AEU in 2007 already direct from LT Packages
At least 6 B757-FO’s taken on by AEU in 2006 from line training packages
I would also like to make you aware of the following:
12 B737-FO’s taken on by AEU in 2006 direct from completed 100Hr LT courses
6 B737-FO’s taken on in 2007 by AEU already direct from 100 Hr LT Courses
6 B757-FO’s taken on by AEU in 2007 already direct from LT Packages
At least 6 B757-FO’s taken on by AEU in 2006 from line training packages
Possibly it is being reminded of these statistics which might make the distinct lack of line training for the past year much harder to bear for many who are still without a job or line training.
With regards Ryanair etc, they do not offer hours on type as a bolt on to a SF TR course, you are comparing two completely different products here.
That was exactly my point about "finding out about the lack of line training too late to realise the doors they are closing by starting a TR with Bond".
I'm sure that when Bond manage to secure a steady, reliable source of line training on the 737 again, it will make them the excellent training provider which they aspire to be. Certainly the quality of the TR training was never in doubt, as you are (roj) aware.
I don't wish to prolong the debate publicly, but thank you for taking the time to respond to my earlier points. Thanks also for your good wishes, which are reciprocated.
PM
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Mike,
I do not wish to win any kind of medal nor any accolades. I am posting because I do not believe Bond "aspire" to be a great training provider, they are. Just download the latest bond aviation information pack from the website and read the 10-15 genuine testimonials that have been collected.
You are obviously setting out to turn people away from training at bond which is disappointing as I personally believe that Bond is one of, if not the best independent TRTO in the UK. For every one slightly unhappy customer like you trust me there are 10's or even 100's of satisfied gainfully employed airline pilots that have a different slant on Bond, they are probably just too busy flying to be posting on here.....
As you say the assurances that you may or may not have been given from a senior company manager of Bond a long time ago, who has long since left the company, we can chat about until the cowes come home. The risks and delays in LT both with Bond/AEU and many other LT providers in the past are evident and well documented. Would you buy a car from a salesman because he said it was worth £20k or would you look at it and research it fully first? I know what I would do.. What I can safely say is that the current team at Bond are some of the most professional, hardworking, loyal and friendly individuals I have ever come across in the industry... Further more they do not miss sell products and if you ring up today to enquire about a LT course possible delays etc are pointed out and only 10 sectors is sold through the AEU scheme.
That is why I am posting to defend the staff and the company that pays their wages at the end of every month..
Also, you may be interested to know that Bond are now able to offer 300 Hrs of B737 line training at approx. the same cost, if not slightly more than the 100 Hr AEU package, inc tax, including all OCC / OPC / Safety training in Europe and they can start pilots line training in June / July and August and have confirmed dates. Of course this has already been offered to any guys currently waiting in the queue to give them further options. It is with a new LT provider / partner, predicted 80 Hrs flying a month flying and real opportunities to then be taken on by the LT provider following the course. That coupled with perhaps the lowest course price for an excellent B737-300-500 and NG Diffs course and guaranteed base training puts bond, I think, in a very positive position. Not to mention they now own and operate their very own B737-NG Full motion B737 SIM.
Mike farr from wanting to continue this post I think we should just let sleeping dogs lie and move on good luck on the 146.
All the best
LOB
I do not wish to win any kind of medal nor any accolades. I am posting because I do not believe Bond "aspire" to be a great training provider, they are. Just download the latest bond aviation information pack from the website and read the 10-15 genuine testimonials that have been collected.
You are obviously setting out to turn people away from training at bond which is disappointing as I personally believe that Bond is one of, if not the best independent TRTO in the UK. For every one slightly unhappy customer like you trust me there are 10's or even 100's of satisfied gainfully employed airline pilots that have a different slant on Bond, they are probably just too busy flying to be posting on here.....
As you say the assurances that you may or may not have been given from a senior company manager of Bond a long time ago, who has long since left the company, we can chat about until the cowes come home. The risks and delays in LT both with Bond/AEU and many other LT providers in the past are evident and well documented. Would you buy a car from a salesman because he said it was worth £20k or would you look at it and research it fully first? I know what I would do.. What I can safely say is that the current team at Bond are some of the most professional, hardworking, loyal and friendly individuals I have ever come across in the industry... Further more they do not miss sell products and if you ring up today to enquire about a LT course possible delays etc are pointed out and only 10 sectors is sold through the AEU scheme.
That is why I am posting to defend the staff and the company that pays their wages at the end of every month..
Also, you may be interested to know that Bond are now able to offer 300 Hrs of B737 line training at approx. the same cost, if not slightly more than the 100 Hr AEU package, inc tax, including all OCC / OPC / Safety training in Europe and they can start pilots line training in June / July and August and have confirmed dates. Of course this has already been offered to any guys currently waiting in the queue to give them further options. It is with a new LT provider / partner, predicted 80 Hrs flying a month flying and real opportunities to then be taken on by the LT provider following the course. That coupled with perhaps the lowest course price for an excellent B737-300-500 and NG Diffs course and guaranteed base training puts bond, I think, in a very positive position. Not to mention they now own and operate their very own B737-NG Full motion B737 SIM.
Mike farr from wanting to continue this post I think we should just let sleeping dogs lie and move on good luck on the 146.
All the best
LOB
Last edited by lookoutbelow; 23rd May 2007 at 12:50.
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I like many other students completed my type rating with bond and found the instruction and line training excellent, taking no more than 6 months from initial groundschool to finishing just over 100 hrs line training. One year later i now have 700 hrs on type and for me it was certainly the best decision i made, we only seem to ever hear the negative sides to bond on pprune and i know there are many more students like myself who benefited greatly from doing the type rating and line training.
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I agree out of many TRTOs researched (yes I'm still at that stage 
) I feel Bond were the BEST. Always informative, helpful and conveyed a rather genuine feel to all correspondence whether on the phone, email or in person, simple as that. Numerous other TRTOs didn't even have the decency to respond let alone provide satisying answers to my queries and some that did really made feel as if I had interrupted their day afterall I was replying to an advertisement their company had posted!
It is indeed a lot of money to put together for training and thus as "look out below" mentioned you must do your own thorough research. I feel that the disgruntled amongst you might well have made things worse for yourselves by failing to work together in resolving your problem(s). Perhaps your expectations were far too consumer based lacking any practicality or flexibility so often required in aviation. Just a thought mind, as I've said I have not yet begun my Type Training but attitude is paramount from what I've seen so far.
There are instances of such behaviour littered throughout my training where the 'next guy' has an issue and ... how can I put this hmmm ..... used a sledge hammer to crack a walnut. This kind of thing never wins you friends especially when you enact your attitude upon those very people attempting to help you. Problems invariably always stem from people and thus require an equivalent 'personal' interaction to resolve in turn.
) I feel Bond were the BEST. Always informative, helpful and conveyed a rather genuine feel to all correspondence whether on the phone, email or in person, simple as that. Numerous other TRTOs didn't even have the decency to respond let alone provide satisying answers to my queries and some that did really made feel as if I had interrupted their day afterall I was replying to an advertisement their company had posted! It is indeed a lot of money to put together for training and thus as "look out below" mentioned you must do your own thorough research. I feel that the disgruntled amongst you might well have made things worse for yourselves by failing to work together in resolving your problem(s). Perhaps your expectations were far too consumer based lacking any practicality or flexibility so often required in aviation. Just a thought mind, as I've said I have not yet begun my Type Training but attitude is paramount from what I've seen so far.
There are instances of such behaviour littered throughout my training where the 'next guy' has an issue and ... how can I put this hmmm ..... used a sledge hammer to crack a walnut. This kind of thing never wins you friends especially when you enact your attitude upon those very people attempting to help you. Problems invariably always stem from people and thus require an equivalent 'personal' interaction to resolve in turn.
Last edited by boogie-nicey; 23rd May 2007 at 21:10.
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Boogie-nicely, I have read most of your posts over time and have found them to be well thought out etc....I am not saying that the 'next guy' is right, but there are several students of Bond who are rather dissatisfied with the service they have recived and are not prepared to post on here.
As you say attitude is paramount, but sometimes you can still be walked all over even with the right attitude.
Good luck with whatever direction you take.
FF
As you say attitude is paramount, but sometimes you can still be walked all over even with the right attitude.
Good luck with whatever direction you take.
FF
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Are these base and line training problems only found on the 73, or have 75 students encountered the same issues?
Personally I don't have the budget for line training anyway, but I would like to hear from ex-75 bond students if you are out there.
PM's are welcome if you would prefer
Personally I don't have the budget for line training anyway, but I would like to hear from ex-75 bond students if you are out there.
PM's are welcome if you would prefer
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I get it now Captain Frank Furillo from Hill Street Blues.... memories.
I welcome all comments and I don't wish to upset anyone nor rubbish their views however my mention of "thorough research" was aimed at minimising the risk and not nullifying it. I realise that there is only so much research one can undertake on potential training within the aviation sphere. At best it'll give a silhouette of the training organisation or school so I'm not advocating that somehow you chaps haven't done your homework I'm sure you most certainly have. You probably were also patient, diplomatic and understanding throughout the training but there really might have been instances where Bond were unable to accomodate the line training for you, in other words a genuine excuse though an excuse nevertheless.
In all financial and commercial dealings there's always a percentage of 'parties'
who get a raw deal. No doubt there are people who hail the great service they got upon driving their new car out of a showroom and have been in love with their new purchase ever since. Whereas another equivalent customer is seething about both car and showroom staff during all apsects of the sale and the subsequent after sales care. I'm sure this scenario can be painted across all industries and Aviation has it's fair share of such a situation too. Bond probably have their supporters too but they'll also have a percentage of students (how can I put this) for whom the roulette wheel stopped on the wrong number. This isn't how a training organisation should be a 'game of chance' but more a case of life itself where you were just unlucky.
Bond do appear to have set up alot of people for their line training so it's not a complete lie but maybe they need to be fair and explain that it's probable or depending on the time of year you undertake your course might not necessarily match the annual industry cycle thus bottlenecks there. There are all manner of possible situations and/or explanations which only Bond really know about and I'm ceratinly no expert at all.... But try and negotiate with them to at the very least recover something . I sincerely wish you chaps all the best don't think I'm against you in any way, as I always say quite simply weren't all in it together.
I feel for you guys .....
I welcome all comments and I don't wish to upset anyone nor rubbish their views however my mention of "thorough research" was aimed at minimising the risk and not nullifying it. I realise that there is only so much research one can undertake on potential training within the aviation sphere. At best it'll give a silhouette of the training organisation or school so I'm not advocating that somehow you chaps haven't done your homework I'm sure you most certainly have. You probably were also patient, diplomatic and understanding throughout the training but there really might have been instances where Bond were unable to accomodate the line training for you, in other words a genuine excuse though an excuse nevertheless.
In all financial and commercial dealings there's always a percentage of 'parties'
who get a raw deal. No doubt there are people who hail the great service they got upon driving their new car out of a showroom and have been in love with their new purchase ever since. Whereas another equivalent customer is seething about both car and showroom staff during all apsects of the sale and the subsequent after sales care. I'm sure this scenario can be painted across all industries and Aviation has it's fair share of such a situation too. Bond probably have their supporters too but they'll also have a percentage of students (how can I put this) for whom the roulette wheel stopped on the wrong number. This isn't how a training organisation should be a 'game of chance' but more a case of life itself where you were just unlucky.
Bond do appear to have set up alot of people for their line training so it's not a complete lie but maybe they need to be fair and explain that it's probable or depending on the time of year you undertake your course might not necessarily match the annual industry cycle thus bottlenecks there. There are all manner of possible situations and/or explanations which only Bond really know about and I'm ceratinly no expert at all.... But try and negotiate with them to at the very least recover something . I sincerely wish you chaps all the best don't think I'm against you in any way, as I always say quite simply weren't all in it together.
I feel for you guys .....
Last edited by boogie-nicey; 13th Jun 2007 at 15:34.
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Bond Orlando
The training facility you heard about leaving students stranded in the middle of their training is Bond-Orlando. Paperwork is a disaster!!! Several pilot's temporary licenses expired due to not sending in paperwork on a timely manner. All they want is your cash!!