"Cleared to Land"
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"Cleared to Land"
Could some one tell me just exactly does this mean in the USA? Over here in the UK it means that the runway is clear of any aircraft or any other obstruction and we may land on it. I have noticed that "Cleared to land" is often issued by tower when the previous landing aircraft has yet to vacate or I am number two. Would I be correct in saying that it means "Cleared to make your approach" and landing is up to you when the runway is clear?
Help!
Help!
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Ok to answer your question very carefully, of course as pilot in command you have the final authority as to whether to land the aircraft or not, just as you have the right to decline an LAHSO if you feel that your aircraft cannot safely come to a stop before the intersecting runway for example. So regardless of a clearance to land by the tower, if something doesn't feel right, you're not obliged to comply. I mean that's just the safest thing to do.
I have personaly never recieved a clearance to land when visually confirming that another aircraft or other obstruction was on the runway. I do know however that if travelling as a 'flight' with another aircraft, you may be allowed to land prior to the other aircraft clearing the active. I personally had to do this about a year ago. I believe that ATC have their specific distance requirements between aircrafts in such an example, however I can't recall the numbers off my head. Hopefully an air traffic controller can fill in this detail.
Hope I've helped some what...
I have personaly never recieved a clearance to land when visually confirming that another aircraft or other obstruction was on the runway. I do know however that if travelling as a 'flight' with another aircraft, you may be allowed to land prior to the other aircraft clearing the active. I personally had to do this about a year ago. I believe that ATC have their specific distance requirements between aircrafts in such an example, however I can't recall the numbers off my head. Hopefully an air traffic controller can fill in this detail.
Hope I've helped some what...
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It just means that you have received landing clearence.
In Atc openion, the spacing between 2 aircraft is such that the one on the ground will have enough time to vacate prior to your arrival.
Should the spacing be minimal, you might have a clearence to continue and to expect landing clearence on short final, or to continue and be prepared to go around.
Hope it helps
Sk3
In Atc openion, the spacing between 2 aircraft is such that the one on the ground will have enough time to vacate prior to your arrival.
Should the spacing be minimal, you might have a clearence to continue and to expect landing clearence on short final, or to continue and be prepared to go around.
Hope it helps
Sk3
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I have noticed that "Cleared to land" is often issued by tower when the previous landing aircraft has yet to vacate or I am number two.
Would I be correct in saying that it means "Cleared to make your approach" and landing is up to you when the runway is clear?
Part of every briefing when I know I have traffic ahead of me or on the runway, including released to takeoff, is a reminder to be prepared for a missed approach.
You may be cleared to land, and subsequently an aircraft cleared to takeoff from the same runway before your arrival. You'll be told this when you're given your landing clearance.
From the FAA ATC Pilot/Controller Glossary:
CLEARED TO LAND - ATC authorization for an aircraft to land. It is predicated on known traffic and known physical airport conditions.
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No. "Cleared to land," means cleared to land. Not cleared for approach, but just what it sounds like it says: "Cleared to land." You always have the final responsibility to determine if a clearance is safe. There are no exceptions.
if so, whats to stop a controller issuing a landing clearance to traffic at 10 miles?
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I think his/ her responsability is to guaranty you that the RWY is all yours when he/she clears you to land !
I noticed that when there is a departing traffic ahead of you, as soon as it rotates for take off, the runway becomes cleared for the following landing traffic ! even if the one ahead is still above the RWY
It is quite funny sometimes when you are cleared for an immediate take off because there is one landing A/C a mile behind you, you can hear the controller clearing to land the other one just at the moment in which your PNF calls "positive climb !"
Now another question, why do we say "cleared FOR take Off" and "cleared TO land" ?
I noticed that when there is a departing traffic ahead of you, as soon as it rotates for take off, the runway becomes cleared for the following landing traffic ! even if the one ahead is still above the RWY
It is quite funny sometimes when you are cleared for an immediate take off because there is one landing A/C a mile behind you, you can hear the controller clearing to land the other one just at the moment in which your PNF calls "positive climb !"
Now another question, why do we say "cleared FOR take Off" and "cleared TO land" ?
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AFAIK, the exact meaning of the "cleared to land" instruction depends where you are landing into.
In Britain, I have never heard a landing clearance issued before the preceding traffic has actually vacated the runway (or is airborne with enough separation) - ATC will even advise you of a "late landing clearance" if need be.
But landing in CDG, I have heard not one, but two aircraft behind us being cleared to land on the same runway - before we were even over the piano keys! Seems an acceptable procedure in Paris
Certainly ensures you take the first available rapid-exit taxiway...
Cheers
In Britain, I have never heard a landing clearance issued before the preceding traffic has actually vacated the runway (or is airborne with enough separation) - ATC will even advise you of a "late landing clearance" if need be.
But landing in CDG, I have heard not one, but two aircraft behind us being cleared to land on the same runway - before we were even over the piano keys! Seems an acceptable procedure in Paris
Certainly ensures you take the first available rapid-exit taxiway...Cheers
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Quite often you'll hear "Cleared to land (or touch & go) number 4, number 3 is on extended left base" at the airport I fly at.
My friend (who flies with the orange company) came over to revalidate his FAA papers last week was shocked to hear "Cleared to land number 3".
I guess it's not normal practise back home?
The guys and girls in the tower at KSEE need a a medal
My friend (who flies with the orange company) came over to revalidate his FAA papers last week was shocked to hear "Cleared to land number 3".
I guess it's not normal practise back home?
The guys and girls in the tower at KSEE need a a medal
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So that means the controller has absolved him/herself of responsibility right? if so, whats to stop a controller issuing a landing clearance to traffic at 10 miles?
Scroggs
Nicely said, Scroggs.
All a landing clearance means is that within the bounds of that country's rules there is no known impediment to you using the runway to land.
In other words, as long as *you* are satisfied it is safe, the tower controller should have met all that country's rules to allow you to use the runway to land. It is *always* your final responsibility to decide if a landing is the best course of action.
Doesn't matter if there's no aircraft ahead of you (landing *or* taking off) or if there's one lining up, nothing at all or 5 aircraft ahead of you. The ultimate responsibility lies with the PIC to decide if landing is the correct action.
All a landing clearance means is that within the bounds of that country's rules there is no known impediment to you using the runway to land.
In other words, as long as *you* are satisfied it is safe, the tower controller should have met all that country's rules to allow you to use the runway to land. It is *always* your final responsibility to decide if a landing is the best course of action.
Doesn't matter if there's no aircraft ahead of you (landing *or* taking off) or if there's one lining up, nothing at all or 5 aircraft ahead of you. The ultimate responsibility lies with the PIC to decide if landing is the correct action.
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The USA also have something called SOIR's (Simultaneous Operation of Intersecting Runways)
I believe this means (perhaps scroggs could confirm or deny) that you could be cleared to land whilst you're 10 miles away, with 4 aircraft in front of you, and a number of aircraft crossing your runway on the intersecting runway.
Sw
I believe this means (perhaps scroggs could confirm or deny) that you could be cleared to land whilst you're 10 miles away, with 4 aircraft in front of you, and a number of aircraft crossing your runway on the intersecting runway.
Sw
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In the US when they say something like "Cleared to land, number 4" all it means is you can land, after number 3 lands and clears the runway.
While the other airplane is on the ground rolling to the taxiway, they will clear you to land, I often hear, "Traffic Departing Active, Cleared to Land" or similair.
By doing this, it prevents confusion while on short final as to whether or not you received a landing clearance. This way you have the clearance, and if something doesn't look right you can choose to go missed. Normally when they do this, they will first ask if you have the traffic in sight, once you report "Traffic in sight" they will then clear you to land, since now you can maintain visual seperation.
All in all, it is just like any other clearance, in that it is the PIC's responsibility to know whether you can accept that clearance, and that if you accept it and cannot abide (in this cannot land for some reason) you must notify ATC.
While the other airplane is on the ground rolling to the taxiway, they will clear you to land, I often hear, "Traffic Departing Active, Cleared to Land" or similair.
By doing this, it prevents confusion while on short final as to whether or not you received a landing clearance. This way you have the clearance, and if something doesn't look right you can choose to go missed. Normally when they do this, they will first ask if you have the traffic in sight, once you report "Traffic in sight" they will then clear you to land, since now you can maintain visual seperation.
All in all, it is just like any other clearance, in that it is the PIC's responsibility to know whether you can accept that clearance, and that if you accept it and cannot abide (in this cannot land for some reason) you must notify ATC.
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SOIRs were re-named 'Land And Hold Short Operations' (LAHSOs) back in 1997. Most non-US operators (including UK) may not use LAHSOs, as their operating authorities are not convinced of the safety of such procedures. Experience at Boston, in particular, suggests they are right to be cautious! However, you may come across them if you are training in the USA on 'N' registered aircraft. If you do, learn all you can before you use them, and keep your wits about you!
Scroggs
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I think your all missing the obvious answer here.....
I think he means what does 'land after' mean..??
In this case its just as has been described. On GA airfields it is common to receive such an instruction. In which case its the PIC's discression to 'land after' the traffic ahead...i.e. when the runway is clear and landing is safe.
I think he means what does 'land after' mean..??
In this case its just as has been described. On GA airfields it is common to receive such an instruction. In which case its the PIC's discression to 'land after' the traffic ahead...i.e. when the runway is clear and landing is safe.
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Thaks guys, clear as mud. mr Guppy you are a Star. That was what I was looking for. The "official" line. Thank goodness I am of to Cuba for my next trip and this problem will not arise.
As a postscript the Trans Atlantic confusion works both ways. A couple of weeks back an American Airways 757 was following me into a large airport in the North West of England and he sounded most upset when he was not "Cleared to Land" on his handover to the tower. Guys, over here you will not be cleared to land until there is no one infront of you and no one on the runway.
As a postscript the Trans Atlantic confusion works both ways. A couple of weeks back an American Airways 757 was following me into a large airport in the North West of England and he sounded most upset when he was not "Cleared to Land" on his handover to the tower. Guys, over here you will not be cleared to land until there is no one infront of you and no one on the runway.
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Originally Posted by Windsheer
I think your all missing the obvious answer here.....
I think he means what does 'land after' mean..??
I think he means what does 'land after' mean..??
Originally Posted by doubledolphins
"Cleared to Land? Could some one tell me just exactly does this mean in the USA?
Scroggs
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Never heard that LAHSOs were suspended, might just be something in the Florida area. I know that they stopped Position and Hold, except for at Airports which applied for exemptions.
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Dear Mister Moderator. Why Did this thread end up here? When I posted it I was trying to get pilots like my self, but from the other side of the pond, to clear up a mystery that does have potential flight safety implications. If you pm me I might tell you what they are. I have been flying heavy jets to the USA for over 10 years now. I understand what I believe the answer to my qustion to be. I just wanted to hear from the horse's mouth. Not start a "Pi**ing contest on a "Wannabe's" forum. Thanks!
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I had no idea it had been moved, and I can't tell from its history where it's been moved from. Perhaps if you give me some more information, I can place it more effectively.
Scroggs
Scroggs
