Training in Australia
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australian aviation training ??
Hey guys has any one very heard of http://www.australianaviationtraining.com/ as i recently have been about to apply to one their schools when i came across another school http://www.flying-school.com/ (national airline college) which had a disclaimer that its noting to do with the other school which worried me of the legitimacy of the school i was going go apply,
How ligit are the majority of flight schools you would find online?
How ligit are the majority of flight schools you would find online?
Join Date: Nov 2005
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First thing, look for a REAL address, I cant find on on the first website, but I do see a phone number on the bottom of the pages, but this is australian cell phone number !!!
Stay away from this one, its obviously an agency, or someone getting a cut for sending students to flying schools. In all my years in flight training, the only time I sawa agents work well and with no problems was the education agents found throughout sth east asia. With this site, use the course page to apply directly to one of the schools.
The second one is a legitimate school, you can also see that they are a registered training provider with a audited trust fund by the CRICOS number on the webpage.
Its quite different in Australia for schools to be able to take foreign students, they must go through a lot of hoops, be part of a association, have insurance to cover any losses to students in case they go broke and are audited annually to keep the approval. So in a sense Australia is much much more protective of foreign students that happens in the USA, or even Europe!
Plus the Australia student visa used to allow you some work privileges ( I dont know if it still does )!
ps the disclaimer on the second site is probably due to confusion with another well known flight school there, and has nothing to do with the agent on the first site.
Stay away from this one, its obviously an agency, or someone getting a cut for sending students to flying schools. In all my years in flight training, the only time I sawa agents work well and with no problems was the education agents found throughout sth east asia. With this site, use the course page to apply directly to one of the schools.
The second one is a legitimate school, you can also see that they are a registered training provider with a audited trust fund by the CRICOS number on the webpage.
Its quite different in Australia for schools to be able to take foreign students, they must go through a lot of hoops, be part of a association, have insurance to cover any losses to students in case they go broke and are audited annually to keep the approval. So in a sense Australia is much much more protective of foreign students that happens in the USA, or even Europe!
Plus the Australia student visa used to allow you some work privileges ( I dont know if it still does )!
ps the disclaimer on the second site is probably due to confusion with another well known flight school there, and has nothing to do with the agent on the first site.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Let me start by saying I don't work for this place (but I have done in the past).
Try TVSA (AKA BMSA). They are the one company and have a school in Moorabbin and in Bacchus Marsh (both near Melbourne) - very good reputation with employers.
The web site pretty much says it all - don't know the web address but try a search with TVSA - something should turn up.
Most schools in Aus are pretty good with a couple of notable exceptions.
PM me if I can help.
Try TVSA (AKA BMSA). They are the one company and have a school in Moorabbin and in Bacchus Marsh (both near Melbourne) - very good reputation with employers.
The web site pretty much says it all - don't know the web address but try a search with TVSA - something should turn up.
Most schools in Aus are pretty good with a couple of notable exceptions.
PM me if I can help.
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Hour building (Australia/New Zealand)
hello all,
is there any cheap place to make some hour-building in Australia or New Zealand? That would be great if it could be me/ir aswell.
thank you!
is there any cheap place to make some hour-building in Australia or New Zealand? That would be great if it could be me/ir aswell.
thank you!
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you might need to narrow-it-down a little to specific areas, especially in Auz as it' rather large!
Basair on the outskirts of Sydney (Bankstown) is a large place and will let you hour build and do ME/IR.
www.basair.com.au
There is at least one other school at Bankstown where you can hourbuild that I know of.
Flying in Auz is great...
Basair on the outskirts of Sydney (Bankstown) is a large place and will let you hour build and do ME/IR.
www.basair.com.au
There is at least one other school at Bankstown where you can hourbuild that I know of.
Flying in Auz is great...
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Yep, I did my PPL with Basair, they're a good bunch. And 152 rental will set you back the grand sum of around 50 quid an hour... You can go do the Sydney Harbour scenic, fabulous!!
However, make sure you check well in advance the security requirements, just before I left (Jan last year) CASA had introduced a draconian requirement for virtually *every* pilot to carry an airside pass, and these were taking up to 6 months to issue
However, make sure you check well in advance the security requirements, just before I left (Jan last year) CASA had introduced a draconian requirement for virtually *every* pilot to carry an airside pass, and these were taking up to 6 months to issue
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Re:Hour building in Australia/New Zealand
I'm headin to Sydney in Oct and i'll be lookin to build as many hours as i can in the 8 months i'll be there.
any other advice from anyone about experiences they've had over there would be appreciated.
neilia-do u actually know of people who've had to wait 6 months for their special pilot's licence to come thru? i only sent mine off 2 weeks ago-thot that would be plenty time for them to sort it out!!
bugginout-i've been in correspondance with basair and they do seem like a good bunch.(i'd like to be pushed towards CPL standard while im hour building, do u think they' be happy to help?)
i'm gonna be livin nearer Hoxton park tho-have u got any info on the schools up there?
alberto-if u do end up goin to Oz, let me know-i'll be a stranger over there too.
cheers
any other advice from anyone about experiences they've had over there would be appreciated.
neilia-do u actually know of people who've had to wait 6 months for their special pilot's licence to come thru? i only sent mine off 2 weeks ago-thot that would be plenty time for them to sort it out!!
bugginout-i've been in correspondance with basair and they do seem like a good bunch.(i'd like to be pushed towards CPL standard while im hour building, do u think they' be happy to help?)
i'm gonna be livin nearer Hoxton park tho-have u got any info on the schools up there?
alberto-if u do end up goin to Oz, let me know-i'll be a stranger over there too.
cheers
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gsx,
The 6 months was for issue of an ASIC - Airside Identity Card - which is required if you're going to any airport that has RPT. Bankstown and Hoxton Park don't fall under this category, but a lot of airports that you might want to fly to do. There was a fairly active thread about them over on the D&G forum but all seems to have gone quiet now. Anyways, you can probably get away without one, it just means some of your more interesting flying destinations (Canberra for example) will be out of bounds. Have a word with schools, see what the situation is.
Basair were helping me out with CPL-targeted hours building - my instructor would set me "commercial" tasks, with a route and objectives, only given to me an hour prior to departure so I had to really sharpen up on flight planning & weather decisions.
A couple of schools at Hoxton Park - I don't know anything about them though:
http://www.phoenix.org.au
http://www.mcivers.com.au
It's not too far from Bankstown if you have your own transport.
Very jealous, wish I was heading back there!
- in fact I still might to finish off my CPL hours...
Neil
The 6 months was for issue of an ASIC - Airside Identity Card - which is required if you're going to any airport that has RPT. Bankstown and Hoxton Park don't fall under this category, but a lot of airports that you might want to fly to do. There was a fairly active thread about them over on the D&G forum but all seems to have gone quiet now. Anyways, you can probably get away without one, it just means some of your more interesting flying destinations (Canberra for example) will be out of bounds. Have a word with schools, see what the situation is.
Basair were helping me out with CPL-targeted hours building - my instructor would set me "commercial" tasks, with a route and objectives, only given to me an hour prior to departure so I had to really sharpen up on flight planning & weather decisions.
A couple of schools at Hoxton Park - I don't know anything about them though:
http://www.phoenix.org.au
http://www.mcivers.com.au
It's not too far from Bankstown if you have your own transport.
Very jealous, wish I was heading back there!
- in fact I still might to finish off my CPL hours...Neil
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By the way, CASA produce some handy guides you can download, if you want to do a bit of reading in advance...
The Sydney Basin Guide covers the procedures for Bankstown and Hoxton Park
http://www.casa.gov.au/pilots/pilotgde.htm
And the Visual Flight Guide is the general guide to VFR in Australia (it's a little out of date, but I don't think too much has changed)
http://www.casa.gov.au/pilots/flitgde.htm
Probably the single biggest change since publication is procedures at non-towered aerodromes, covered in this article...
http://www.casa.gov.au/fsa/2005/oct/33-35.pdf
The Sydney Basin Guide covers the procedures for Bankstown and Hoxton Park
http://www.casa.gov.au/pilots/pilotgde.htm
And the Visual Flight Guide is the general guide to VFR in Australia (it's a little out of date, but I don't think too much has changed)
http://www.casa.gov.au/pilots/flitgde.htm
Probably the single biggest change since publication is procedures at non-towered aerodromes, covered in this article...
http://www.casa.gov.au/fsa/2005/oct/33-35.pdf
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neilia
I am also looking at going to Basair for some hour building. I understand that you require a Certificate of Validation. Can i ask - did you arrange this prior to arriving in Sydney or did you sort it out as soon as you arrived?
I am also looking at going to Basair for some hour building. I understand that you require a Certificate of Validation. Can i ask - did you arrange this prior to arriving in Sydney or did you sort it out as soon as you arrived?
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Hi Steve,
I did PPL from scratch in Australia so didn't have to go through this process, but CASA have the info on their website -
http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/overbr.htm
Also Basair website:
http://www.basair.com.au/visiting.shtml
Sounds like the CV can be sorted fairly quickly, but if you're staying longer than 3 months you need a Special Licence which involves security checks and the CAA. Might be safest to contact CASA directly and see exactly what the score is.
By the way - it's just occurred to me that with the CPL hour building preparation, I already had a relationship with them - it takes time input from an instructor that they're effectively not getting paid for if you're on private hire rates. They probably will be happy to help out with it, but just thought I'd better add that disclaimer before you all turn up there saying "But Neil said..."..!!
n
I did PPL from scratch in Australia so didn't have to go through this process, but CASA have the info on their website -
http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/overbr.htm
Also Basair website:
http://www.basair.com.au/visiting.shtml
Sounds like the CV can be sorted fairly quickly, but if you're staying longer than 3 months you need a Special Licence which involves security checks and the CAA. Might be safest to contact CASA directly and see exactly what the score is.
By the way - it's just occurred to me that with the CPL hour building preparation, I already had a relationship with them - it takes time input from an instructor that they're effectively not getting paid for if you're on private hire rates. They probably will be happy to help out with it, but just thought I'd better add that disclaimer before you all turn up there saying "But Neil said..."..!!
n
Last edited by neilia; 30th Jul 2006 at 20:28.
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neil,
cheers for all the links. i'll give them a thorough read in the next few weeks(down at bristol just now finishin off the last few bits of ATPL's-so shouldn't really have time t b on pprune!!)
all that stuff about basair helpin u with ur commercial hour buildin is just what i'm after but so i'd be willing to pay more if they could help. i'll give em a shout n c what they say-don't worry i won't say u said so!
steve - as i said previously i sent all my paperwork off for my special pilots licence a few weeks ago, i emailed a bloke called David Garnock, [email protected], at CASA who helped me thru the whole process. It's not too difficult just a bit time consuming gettin all the signatures.
Liam
cheers for all the links. i'll give them a thorough read in the next few weeks(down at bristol just now finishin off the last few bits of ATPL's-so shouldn't really have time t b on pprune!!)
all that stuff about basair helpin u with ur commercial hour buildin is just what i'm after but so i'd be willing to pay more if they could help. i'll give em a shout n c what they say-don't worry i won't say u said so!
steve - as i said previously i sent all my paperwork off for my special pilots licence a few weeks ago, i emailed a bloke called David Garnock, [email protected], at CASA who helped me thru the whole process. It's not too difficult just a bit time consuming gettin all the signatures.
Liam
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Two suggestions.
1. If you want twin hours try Gawne Aviation in Shepparton. They have a Seneca going out at $320ph AIRSWITCH, which works out cheaper than most places charge for a Seminole. And this was without purchasing a block (and most places will discount for block rates if you ask). I was there a few weeks ago and they seem very professional.
2. For single hours consider hiring an RAA registered aircraft. Much cheaper and licencing is much easier and cheaper. PM for some suggestions in this department.
Whichever you choose make sure you do a trip well away from the east coast, into the "Real Australia" (eg Camerons Corner where you taxi for fuel outside the only shop for 100's of miles, or Birdsville were the Hotel is 20 metres from the aircraft parking area..........yes I could go on!)
1. If you want twin hours try Gawne Aviation in Shepparton. They have a Seneca going out at $320ph AIRSWITCH, which works out cheaper than most places charge for a Seminole. And this was without purchasing a block (and most places will discount for block rates if you ask). I was there a few weeks ago and they seem very professional.
2. For single hours consider hiring an RAA registered aircraft. Much cheaper and licencing is much easier and cheaper. PM for some suggestions in this department.
Whichever you choose make sure you do a trip well away from the east coast, into the "Real Australia" (eg Camerons Corner where you taxi for fuel outside the only shop for 100's of miles, or Birdsville were the Hotel is 20 metres from the aircraft parking area..........yes I could go on!)
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AVID or ASIC?
They both cost the same amount of money and for that reason, I'd say it's better you apply for an ASIC. If you need to fly to an alternate, you won't have to worry about whether you're legal or not to land there.
Goes without saying that the sooner you apply for it the better, but 6 months or longer and you'd have to be one of the unlucky ones.
I got my ASIC back in 5 weeks.
http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/licence/fees.htm
Goes without saying that the sooner you apply for it the better, but 6 months or longer and you'd have to be one of the unlucky ones.
I got my ASIC back in 5 weeks.
http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/licence/fees.htm
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Training in Australia/NZ as opposed to Europe or Africa Detailed
Hello all, great site by the way, ive been doing alot of reading and getting informed, however because this site is pruned so often i havent been able to find an answer to the following....
I am lucky enough to have dual citizenship, French (EU) and New Zealand (aus/nz basically). I live normally in Sydney Aust but am currently in Nice France visiting family and later backpacking northern Africa, Europe, and Asia I am 20 btw. Obviously you can see that travelling is no problem for me.
My questions are:
____________________________________________
**What are peoples oppinions on training in Aus/NZ or EU, from what I gather Aus will be cheaper than the UK but what about the rest of EU?
redsnail You would be better off using the Australian (or NZ) CPL to get a job flying in the great outback or Africa to build valuable and interesting experience before tackling Europe.
____________________________________________
** Irealise that if i gained my commercial license in Aus/NZ i would have to transfer to the EU equivilant which would be about 100 hours flight time am i correct or have i researched wrong?
redsnail Not quite right. If you hold an Australian CPL and IR (known as CIR = command instrument rating) then you'd have to do the flying to convert that, certainly wouldn't need 100 hours. The exact hours are a mystery to me. I did it another way. You'd also have to do the 14 JAA ATPL exams. If you'd done the Australian ATPL exams then you'd find that experience and knowledge a benefit.
____________________________________________
**If i do gain my comercial license i would have no problem working anywhere in the world, be it asia, africa, europe or aus/nz to gain hours and to see what division of flying is for me, commercial or whatever. I am also not against working for aid companies such as UN, Red Cross to get hours even if pay is only enough to survive, who knows maybe some years seeing whats going on in parts of the wolrd may be really beneficial to me, cant be dior and LV bags everywhere all the time can it?? For example would gaining my license in Aust make it difficult to gain work in Africa / EU and vice versa?
redsnailI believe there would be some form of conversion required for a SA license if you held an Aus/NZ lic. To convert the Aus to NZ or vice versa is extremely simple. It might only be a paper exercise, not sure. The 2 countries have aligned their respective authorities. You'd need to check with CASA (Australia) and NZ's regulatory authorities.
____________________________________________
**Is gaining a license in Africa a worthwhile idea to research into or is it different to EU / AU?
redsnail The Australian ATPL* (or CPL + CIR and ATPL exam subjects) is good for Asia and African nations. The conversion is usually an Air Law exam or something like that. Possibly an IR check ride etc. Those specific things you'd need to check.
____________________________________________
I am not asking for information on gaining medicals and trying a flight first, maybe this is a good idea for a sticky or adding into a FAQ because i havent found a thread where different countries have been summarised next to each other detailing, type of license, transf costs / procedures and likely hood of certain types of works on the different continents.
I realise this is a very detailed question but as it is answered even in parts I will edit my post so that individual questions have answers so it will be easy in the future for other people who search.
If i have overlooked a thread somewhere and this has been answered even in parts I am sorry, but as you can see I have put time into this so just let me know rather than flame. I also didnt post in the wannabe pilot thread that has been merged alot just incase it is suitable for another thread, if not please murge no issues here
Thank you in advance
Alex
I am lucky enough to have dual citizenship, French (EU) and New Zealand (aus/nz basically). I live normally in Sydney Aust but am currently in Nice France visiting family and later backpacking northern Africa, Europe, and Asia I am 20 btw. Obviously you can see that travelling is no problem for me.
My questions are:
____________________________________________
**What are peoples oppinions on training in Aus/NZ or EU, from what I gather Aus will be cheaper than the UK but what about the rest of EU?
redsnail You would be better off using the Australian (or NZ) CPL to get a job flying in the great outback or Africa to build valuable and interesting experience before tackling Europe.
____________________________________________
** Irealise that if i gained my commercial license in Aus/NZ i would have to transfer to the EU equivilant which would be about 100 hours flight time am i correct or have i researched wrong?
redsnail Not quite right. If you hold an Australian CPL and IR (known as CIR = command instrument rating) then you'd have to do the flying to convert that, certainly wouldn't need 100 hours. The exact hours are a mystery to me. I did it another way. You'd also have to do the 14 JAA ATPL exams. If you'd done the Australian ATPL exams then you'd find that experience and knowledge a benefit.
____________________________________________
**If i do gain my comercial license i would have no problem working anywhere in the world, be it asia, africa, europe or aus/nz to gain hours and to see what division of flying is for me, commercial or whatever. I am also not against working for aid companies such as UN, Red Cross to get hours even if pay is only enough to survive, who knows maybe some years seeing whats going on in parts of the wolrd may be really beneficial to me, cant be dior and LV bags everywhere all the time can it?? For example would gaining my license in Aust make it difficult to gain work in Africa / EU and vice versa?
redsnailI believe there would be some form of conversion required for a SA license if you held an Aus/NZ lic. To convert the Aus to NZ or vice versa is extremely simple. It might only be a paper exercise, not sure. The 2 countries have aligned their respective authorities. You'd need to check with CASA (Australia) and NZ's regulatory authorities.
____________________________________________
**Is gaining a license in Africa a worthwhile idea to research into or is it different to EU / AU?
redsnail The Australian ATPL* (or CPL + CIR and ATPL exam subjects) is good for Asia and African nations. The conversion is usually an Air Law exam or something like that. Possibly an IR check ride etc. Those specific things you'd need to check.
____________________________________________
I am not asking for information on gaining medicals and trying a flight first, maybe this is a good idea for a sticky or adding into a FAQ because i havent found a thread where different countries have been summarised next to each other detailing, type of license, transf costs / procedures and likely hood of certain types of works on the different continents.
I realise this is a very detailed question but as it is answered even in parts I will edit my post so that individual questions have answers so it will be easy in the future for other people who search.
If i have overlooked a thread somewhere and this has been answered even in parts I am sorry, but as you can see I have put time into this so just let me know rather than flame. I also didnt post in the wannabe pilot thread that has been merged alot just incase it is suitable for another thread, if not please murge no issues here
Thank you in advance
Alex
Last edited by notneo; 3rd Aug 2006 at 20:09.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
"I realise that if i gained my commercial license in Aus/NZ i would have to transfer to the EU equivilant which would be about 100 hours flight time am i correct or have i researched wrong?"
Not quite right. If you hold an Australian CPL and IR (known as CIR = command instrument rating) then you'd have to do the flying to convert that, certainly wouldn't need 100 hours. The exact hours are a mystery to me. I did it another way. You'd also have to do the 14 JAA ATPL exams. If you'd done the Australian ATPL exams then you'd find that experience and knowledge a benefit.
You would be better off using the Australian (or NZ) CPL to get a job flying in the great outback or Africa to build valuable and interesting experience before tackling Europe.
See the world. Enjoy your flying. Then move on up to the jets.
Sure, it isn't the same as going "straight to the RHS of a shiny jet" but you won't regret the experience and fun.
Not quite right. If you hold an Australian CPL and IR (known as CIR = command instrument rating) then you'd have to do the flying to convert that, certainly wouldn't need 100 hours. The exact hours are a mystery to me. I did it another way. You'd also have to do the 14 JAA ATPL exams. If you'd done the Australian ATPL exams then you'd find that experience and knowledge a benefit.
You would be better off using the Australian (or NZ) CPL to get a job flying in the great outback or Africa to build valuable and interesting experience before tackling Europe.
See the world. Enjoy your flying. Then move on up to the jets.
Sure, it isn't the same as going "straight to the RHS of a shiny jet" but you won't regret the experience and fun.
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I don't want to go straight into the right hand seat to be honest, I want to use flying as a means to travel the world and see places I normally wouldnt plan on going to.
When you say you did it a different way could you explain a little??
Also are the licenses the same in aus/nz to south africa? or is a conversion required?
When you say you did it a different way could you explain a little??
Also are the licenses the same in aus/nz to south africa? or is a conversion required?
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I believe there would be some form of conversion required for a SA license if you held an Aus/NZ lic. To convert the Aus to NZ or vice versa is extremely simple. It might only be a paper exercise, not sure. The 2 countries have aligned their respective authorities. You'd need to check with CASA (Australia) and NZ's regulatory authorities.
I held an Australian ATPL with +500 hours multi pilot time when I converted my Aus lic to a JAA one. So I didn't need to do a "CPL" or "IR" conversion per se, I just did a type rating on a JAR 25 a/c observed by a CAA examiner and that was my IR and lic check done in one go.
The Australian ATPL* (or CPL + CIR and ATPL exam subjects) is good for Asia and African nations. The conversion is usually an Air Law exam or something like that. Possibly an IR check ride etc. Those specific things you'd need to check.
It wouldn't matter whether it was a JAA lic, a CASA lic etc. Most countries expect some sort of conversion to take place. It can be like Europe that expects you to do 14 exams plus about 20 hours flying (IR stuff and maybe CPL stuff) or like Australia that expects a bridging exam, an IR exam, and a CIR flight check. (Maybe a CPL check too.)
The specifics of what you need to convert is dependant on your experience (hours) and actual license held.
I've used my quals to see pretty much all of Australia, now flown in the US (a tiny bit) and all over Europe, North Africa, Middle East, Russia and bits of the Atlantic. No 2 days are the same.
I held an Australian ATPL with +500 hours multi pilot time when I converted my Aus lic to a JAA one. So I didn't need to do a "CPL" or "IR" conversion per se, I just did a type rating on a JAR 25 a/c observed by a CAA examiner and that was my IR and lic check done in one go.
The Australian ATPL* (or CPL + CIR and ATPL exam subjects) is good for Asia and African nations. The conversion is usually an Air Law exam or something like that. Possibly an IR check ride etc. Those specific things you'd need to check.
It wouldn't matter whether it was a JAA lic, a CASA lic etc. Most countries expect some sort of conversion to take place. It can be like Europe that expects you to do 14 exams plus about 20 hours flying (IR stuff and maybe CPL stuff) or like Australia that expects a bridging exam, an IR exam, and a CIR flight check. (Maybe a CPL check too.)
The specifics of what you need to convert is dependant on your experience (hours) and actual license held.
I've used my quals to see pretty much all of Australia, now flown in the US (a tiny bit) and all over Europe, North Africa, Middle East, Russia and bits of the Atlantic. No 2 days are the same.
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Fast Track Pilot Training - Australia
Guys and Girls,
Have any of you heard of Fast Track Pilot Training in Australia? If yes, do you have any information that you can provide in regards to quality of training and other issues that we tend to be concerned with when choosing flight schools abroad.
Have any of you heard of Fast Track Pilot Training in Australia? If yes, do you have any information that you can provide in regards to quality of training and other issues that we tend to be concerned with when choosing flight schools abroad.