Twin Star (DA42) - Glass vs Clockwork
god!Moving On
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Although the DA42 is significantly cheaper to operate in terms of fuel costs you do have to factor in the captial expenditure of buying a brand new aircraft at about £300,000 which is signicficantly more than your average second hand light piston twin training aircraft. Plus there will be uncertainties for operators of maintenance for a new aircraft, engine replacements (when and how much) etc.
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Yes but there are those still making a tidy profit from it, after all the ideal business cuts costs and charges more! But LFS is right, you have to pay the mortgage fees and Diamond UK's own sample ownership figures used to suggest factoring in hefty depreciation. Whether or not the price in real terms comes down when the dep slope smooths off is another matter.
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In my opinion the problem with this thing as a trainer, is the no manual control over the props and no mixture control.
Learn to fly twins in this thing, then start flying a Baron or 310 and they will eat you alive. All the cool displays aren't going to help much when a real twin VMC rolls on you just after departure.
Two more thoughts - I don't like the idea of liquid cooled engines, and, I wonder how it will hold up after years as a training aircraft.
Learn to fly twins in this thing, then start flying a Baron or 310 and they will eat you alive. All the cool displays aren't going to help much when a real twin VMC rolls on you just after departure.
Two more thoughts - I don't like the idea of liquid cooled engines, and, I wonder how it will hold up after years as a training aircraft.
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Missing the point
Everyone is missing the point.
It depends not on the plane but the pilot.
If the pilot plans to fly steam drive rust buckets for a few years, this is definitely the wrong aircraft for him.
However, if the point wants to transition onto a Learjet, Eclipse, Cessna jet or similar, it's amazingly similar avionics, jet-like power etc.
So there is no right answer - it depends on what you're preparing for next.
VT
It depends not on the plane but the pilot.
If the pilot plans to fly steam drive rust buckets for a few years, this is definitely the wrong aircraft for him.
However, if the point wants to transition onto a Learjet, Eclipse, Cessna jet or similar, it's amazingly similar avionics, jet-like power etc.
So there is no right answer - it depends on what you're preparing for next.
VT
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In my opinion the problem with this thing as a trainer, is the no manual control over the props and no mixture control.
Learn to fly twins in this thing, then start flying a Baron or 310 and they will eat you alive. All the cool displays aren't going to help much when a real twin VMC rolls on you just after departure.
Two more thoughts - I don't like the idea of liquid cooled engines, and, I wonder how it will hold up after years as a training aircraft.
Learn to fly twins in this thing, then start flying a Baron or 310 and they will eat you alive. All the cool displays aren't going to help much when a real twin VMC rolls on you just after departure.
Two more thoughts - I don't like the idea of liquid cooled engines, and, I wonder how it will hold up after years as a training aircraft.
Not really an issue in my opinion, before you fly a baron or 310 you would do the required difference/familirisation training. Anyone learning in the DA42 will obviously need a few hours difference training in say a clock n dial 6 lever twin...I'm planning to do my IR in the DA42 and have set aside 1k for some difference training in a convential twin shooting out some procedures and general handling.
Pre IR training us wannabes think of all the possible problematic issues, the IR rating is to teach you instrument flying, learning procedures...its not all about learning how to move 6 levers while shooting a procedure, the MEP rating teaches you that or ME type specific training!
At this present time we're all inexperienced at flying in the scenarios we're discussing and think of all the future problematic situations based on our current experience and knowledge...come the time we're maybe in a position to fly such aircraft we'ill be more experienced and clued up. (hopefully!)
Last edited by wbryce; 4th Dec 2006 at 11:33.
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In my opinion the problem with this thing as a trainer, is the no manual control over the props and no mixture control.
Learn to fly twins in this thing, then start flying a Baron or 310 and they will eat you alive. All the cool displays aren't going to help much when a real twin VMC rolls on you just after departure.
Two more thoughts - I don't like the idea of liquid cooled engines, and, I wonder how it will hold up after years as a training aircraft.
Learn to fly twins in this thing, then start flying a Baron or 310 and they will eat you alive. All the cool displays aren't going to help much when a real twin VMC rolls on you just after departure.
Two more thoughts - I don't like the idea of liquid cooled engines, and, I wonder how it will hold up after years as a training aircraft.
There are always a few Luddites - thank God that the industry doesn't listen to them or we'd all be training on Tiger Moths and Dragon Rapides before trying to jump straight to an A320!
Tell, does your car have to be hand cranked to start? Do you have an ignition timing adjuster on the steering wheel? Is the ignition produced by a "hot tube" rather than one of those nasty, modern spark plug thingies? Got no seat belts and no speedo? Do you still have one mechanical brake operating on a single, rear, solid tyre shod wheel? Of course not - so why expect aeroplanes to stand still.
You learn to drive on a modern car because most cars are modern cars. If you then want to drive a Model T Ford or Austin Seven Chummy, you get some to do differences training for these dinosaurs. The same applies to the DA42 and old fashioned aeroplanes.
The future is here now and it has liquid cooled, diesel engines and EFIS displays in the cockpit.
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First time pass on the DA42 last week, I love that aircraft, so much easier and nicer to fly than a Sene**.
Subsequently got offered a job on a aircraft that is EFIS equipped due to my "experience" on glass cockpit
Subsequently got offered a job on a aircraft that is EFIS equipped due to my "experience" on glass cockpit
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Just Googled them:
http://www.papa-bravo.com/
From Bagby. If they're using G-DJET then this is sometimes leased out to other DA42 operators
http://www.papa-bravo.com/
From Bagby. If they're using G-DJET then this is sometimes leased out to other DA42 operators
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You could also try Egnatia Aviation in Greece, they seem pretty good on price (I think tax free if towards a commercial license). Never been there though so can't recomend it personally - http://www.egnatia-aviation.com/Fleet.htm
I just did it. Tax free, good price, awesome plane, awesome terrain, awesome weather for IR (lots of ice, low ceiling, bad visibility..)
The only bad thing is that the Twinstar spoiled me.. Can't really bother to fly old Cessna's anymore..
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Before doing the IR on a DA42, would there be any merit therefore in doing the MEP on a "conventional" AVGAS piston? I can do so on a PA34-220T Seneca II next door for about the same money as my current FTO's DA42, so there's little cost factor involved between the two choices.
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Whats the current situation with the DA42 and screens to simulate IMC? Egnatia tell me the its impossible to fit screens on the DA42 due to its canopy....were as we have UK DA42 operators which use the '42 for training which most likely use screens since its a requirement...
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Hard to say BR, doing it on the convential steam driven AVGAS drinker you will benefit in understanding the convential MEP operations early on...this may slow you down a bit in understanding the DA42 at the start of your IR and may not directly benefit you, it depends how easy the AC is to learn...since I haven't flown it yet, I can't quite say.
I planned to do some hours in a conventional MEP after the IR, mainly from my currency budget - this would still give the benefits your after IMO...
If you can ask the screens question at your FTO, then that would be great!
I planned to do some hours in a conventional MEP after the IR, mainly from my currency budget - this would still give the benefits your after IMO...
If you can ask the screens question at your FTO, then that would be great!
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I fly at SFC and the DA42 has screens, one big for the left window and 3 smaller than usual ones for the windscreen due to the canopy dimensions. you still can't see anything outside 
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Okay I had a look at the aircraft and FRASCA sim. This is going to be a tough decision as to wehter go steam, combination thereof or full glass, but the DA42 is definately ahead compared to the typical FTO trainer fleet. Plus the instruction seems okay.
AFT have had their screens custom-made.
AFT have had their screens custom-made.
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Whats the current situation with the DA42 and screens to simulate IMC? Egnatia tell me the its impossible to fit screens on the DA42 due to its canopy....were as we have UK DA42 operators which use the '42 for training which most likely use screens since its a requirement...