ATPL before PPL complete?

[ccopter]

Hello - I am struggling to complete my PPL GST due to great british weather. My timescale for flight training is already sliding dangerously out of kilter!!! Is there anything stopping me studying distance learning or rese quietly before i complete the PPL? One option i am thinking of is to order ATPL studies from Bristol or similar and start study rather than waiting for weeks until the weather is right for my PPL.

Am i right in thinking that it is only at the exam stage of the ATPL where PPL is required. Am i breaking any rules by ordering course before PPL is actually finished?

Any advice please?

[GoldenMonkey]

I believe it is OK to do what you suggest.
Just have a word with the schools and so long as they are OK with it... go for it.
So long as you don't loose focus on passing the GST that is!

[Mercenary Pilot]

You can't sit any ATPL exams unless you have had your PPL for 3 months. That doesn't stop you studying though.

[neilia]

You might find that the schools won't let you enrol for ATPL studies unless you hold a PPL - this is certainly the case with Oxford. If you're close to PPL completion perhaps they will make an exception, only way to find out is to ask them.

If they won't let you enrol straight away, be careful of just buying materials - chances are you will end up having to pay for them again when you actually enrol on a course.

[matt_hooks]

I didn't realise you needed a PPL to do the ATPL exams. Is there a different rule for integrated courses as only two people out of the 16 on my course have PPL's yet we are all quite happily sitting, and in some cases even passing, the ATPL theory stuff!

[Mercenary Pilot]

Yes the integrated course has different rules & regulations, you can start without ever even sitting in an aircraft.

I dont think you actually get a PPL during an integrated course, I may be wrong about that though (I went through Modular training).

[Lucifer]

Originally Posted by Mercenary Pilot

I dont think you actually get a PPL during an integrated course, I may be wrong about that though (I went through Modular training).

Well, you effectively do, as you have an SEP rating on a CPL/IR, which once lapsed in its own right is a PPL.

[Mercenary Pilot]

As I understand it. If you cant finish your integrated course for whatever reason, you dont get a PPL out of it.

[matt_hooks]

You complete the training for a PPL, and if your relevant flight tests are carried out by a CAA examiner then you can apply for a PPL. Most people don't bother tho, just add the SEP rating to their licence at the end of the course.
And yes you can start an integrated course with no flying at all, one of the guys on my course has never even been inside a light a/c, let alone flown one!

[Lucifer]

Originally Posted by Mercenary Pilot

As I understand it. If you cant finish your integrated course for whatever reason, you dont get a PPL out of it.

No - the other way around - you have to finish to get the rating on the CPL, or apply as noted below!

[potkettleblack]

Oxford may well not sell you a set of manuals for the ATPL's but I am pretty sure Bristol will and you can self study as much as you want whilst you finish off the PPL.

[Hour Builder]

It is a requirement to HOLD an ICAO PPL (A) at least before starting any ATPL theory course. Bristol didnt check mine, but they should have done. You may need to have a PPL for at least 3 months before taking any ATPL exams, but you definately need it issued before they should enrol you on the course. Whether they actually check is a different matter.

ATPL(A) Modular Theoretical Knowledge Course

The aim of this course is to train pilots who have not yet received the theoretical knowledge instruction during an integrated course, to the level of theoretical knowledge required for the ATPL(A). Applicants will be required to complete 650 hours of ATPL theoretical knowledge instruction at an Approved FTO within a period of 18 months. An applicant shall be the holder of a PPL(A) (excluding NPPL) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1.

HB

[hobbit1983]

Since Bristol allow you to study at your own rate before taking the exam (within the time limits for sitting ATPL exams of course) why not purchase/acquire the textbook(s) and start to study them now? So that when you enroll on a distance learning course, you're already ahead?

[neilia]

Because when you enrol onto the course it's likely you'll have to pay for the materials all over again as part of the course fee.

You can buy Oxford's books direct from Jeppesen if you want, but if you then enrol with Oxford you will pay the full course fee and they'll send you another set of books.

Check it out before you part with your money!

[littco]

Originally Posted by Mercenary Pilot

You can't sit any ATPL exams unless you have had your PPL for 3 months. That doesn't stop you studying though.

Don't agree, I got my ppl on the 4th April and sat my 1st set of ATPL exams on the 5 th June, I make that 2 months!! May be I was lucky?

[obi-nu]

Guys,
Just been reading this thread... really interesting! I've just completed my JAA (UK) PPL (passed last tuesday!) and i would like to take my flying further... i didnt know about this requirement for the ATPL exams!!

Im not sure what to do next though (was directed to the long winded thread on 'becoming an airline pilot' but just found lots of contradictory information and different opinions/ ways to go about it!

I have been thinking about hour building over in the states and would like to get my IR? next or go the whole way... CPL/ATPL but im not sure how to go about it/ best/ cheapest route now i have my PPL??

I dont really understand the whole 'process' except that you need an ATPL to fly commercially!!

Could anyone please point me in the right direction??!

[0-8]

You can't sit any ATPL exams unless you have had your PPL for 3 months

I'm not sure about the 3 months requirement but you are technically required to have a PPL before your sitting your ATPL's.

I say technically as I know of several cases where students have completed all 14 exams without holding a PPL. In each case the student assumed that if there was a problem the school or the CAA would alert them, but neither asked so they continued on.

I really wouldn't recommend it though as the CAA would be within its rights to make you resit the exams if it found out!

[Mercenary Pilot]

I say technically as I know of several cases where students have completed all 14 exams without holding a PPL. In each case the student assumed that if there was a problem the school or the CAA would alert them, but neither asked so they continued on.

That’s interesting, the case I know of only came to light when the student in question put in for the exams. At which point the CAA E-mailed the school to say that the student hadn't held the PPL for long enough.

I guess the best course of action (as always) is, if in doubt, E-mail the CAA. If you have it in writing (or at least typing) then there wont be any nasty comebacks.

It surprises me how people will take what is said here (As well meaning as most of us are) as gospel and won’t check with the CAA. It's one of the only things the CAA do for free so you may as well take advantage. Besides, you could save yourself alot of heart ache and more importantly lots of cold hard CA$H!!!!

[Bandit650]

PPL flying whilst studying ATPL

Can anyone offer any suggestions to what kind of flying whilst doing an ATPL ground course (not at exactly the same time obviously) is likely to contribute the most towards the CPL/MEIR training?
VFR Nav?
Instruments? (do IMC rating?)
Long trips?
Night?
International?
Busy Airspace / Airports?

I want to be doing something of high constructive value to the next step when not heads down in books.

Cheers

[Finals19]

Bandit,

I am in a similar situation as you are (hope to start a foreign licence conversion to JAA in January)

Obviously PPL flying around for fun is costly if you are ground studying for your fATPL, so there has to be some benefit..

Once or twice a month, plan a flight that covers a bit of everything you have mentioned, in particular a bit of radio navigation and IMC if you can. General handling is kind of incorporated into this anyway (depending on your current experience and/or skills level) If you can incorporate an approach into it, all the better (or even a simulated approach in open FIR if you have a safety pilot with you)



PS: On that note, I PM'd you..