working full time and going modular
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working full time and going modular
Hi all,
I'm planning to keep my current full time (mon-fri, 9-5) job whilst training via the modular route. I've worked out that by doing the PPL at weekends, then I have enough leave each year to hour build and do the ATPL exams. My problem comes with the IR and CPL - I dont have 6/8/10/12+ weeks off to do it all. So my question is, to those of you who have gone a similar route - how did you do it? Did you ask for unpaid leave? how did you go about talking your boss into it?! Or did you resign and then try to get another job afterwards? Any experiences / advice / comments welcome
I'm planning to keep my current full time (mon-fri, 9-5) job whilst training via the modular route. I've worked out that by doing the PPL at weekends, then I have enough leave each year to hour build and do the ATPL exams. My problem comes with the IR and CPL - I dont have 6/8/10/12+ weeks off to do it all. So my question is, to those of you who have gone a similar route - how did you do it? Did you ask for unpaid leave? how did you go about talking your boss into it?! Or did you resign and then try to get another job afterwards? Any experiences / advice / comments welcome
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Did the PPL at weekends. I did the ATPL groundschool evenings and weekends. I used my holidays for the brushup and exam weeks. Asked work for unpaid leave, but gave them 12 months notice for hr building, IR, CPL etc - reckoned the groundschool would take me 12 months, which it did. Did an MCC over a couple of weekends and evenings.
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Had a PPL already but did ATPL exams and CPL/ IR alongside work. Much the same as above - used leave for the brush-ups and exams and negotiated altered working hours for the flying training (I was in a shift job in a 7-day operation, which made for more flexibility than most might have). I was also fortunate that I could be honest with my employer about what I was doing and what it might lead to in the longer term...
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Thanks for the replies so far. I think I'm going to have to get a job which allows me to work shifts or more flexible hours... I get 25 days holiday plus public which isn't bad, but I'm not sure if it's going to be enough. I'm also not sure what my employer would think about unpaid leave - they know I'm learning to fly but I've told them its a hobby just now, I can't tell them it's a possible career so will have to make up some excuses. I guess I could say I want to be a part time instructor (which I've not ruled out) which is a good enough reason to need all the time off... 
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If your training goes from, say June to June, then in theory you'll get 50 days holiday - assuming you are given holiday at the start of each year. I carried over holiday from the previous year, so in my year of ATPL studies, I had around 35 days of holiday. If you're timing is really good, the brush-up courses will fall in the bank holiday week, thereby saving you a couple of 'holiday' days too.
People leave careers, change jobs, move on etc all the time; it's just a fact of life. My company have known about my aspirations for many years, and as long as you are working hard, and are a good performer, you'll find that most experienced managers will accept the situation. In my company, a few others have changed careers too. Someone went onto become a professional garden designer after a couple of years of study, another went to open a diving school, someone bought themselves a yacht and sailed the oceans, unfortunately being killed in the process. More recently, we had someone leave to become a photographer after several years of study.
People leave careers, change jobs, move on etc all the time; it's just a fact of life. My company have known about my aspirations for many years, and as long as you are working hard, and are a good performer, you'll find that most experienced managers will accept the situation. In my company, a few others have changed careers too. Someone went onto become a professional garden designer after a couple of years of study, another went to open a diving school, someone bought themselves a yacht and sailed the oceans, unfortunately being killed in the process. More recently, we had someone leave to become a photographer after several years of study.
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female wannabe,
I'm in exactly the same position, I get roughly the same annual leave entitlement and even if I combine it all together I could probably put together 7-8 weeks of full time training which would then leave me zero time for MCC. Everyone has a different set of personal circumstances and there are schools that do part time courses, and why not, after all you are paying them a lot of money!
I'm in exactly the same position, I get roughly the same annual leave entitlement and even if I combine it all together I could probably put together 7-8 weeks of full time training which would then leave me zero time for MCC. Everyone has a different set of personal circumstances and there are schools that do part time courses, and why not, after all you are paying them a lot of money!
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Hello,
I am doing my flying training while holding a 9-5 job, and soon to start university part-time evenings, in terms of time flexibility I have to admit that I do have great manager who is willing to help, I have offered to take him up during one of my flying lessons and he is very keen on the idea, I have 5 weeks off holiday entitlement plus another extra week for doing a couple of hours one Saturday per month, so in total 6 weeks. I believe it can be done if one is good with time management, planning and is willing to make sacrifices in order to achieve the ultimate goal of becoming a Pilot, no one will say it will be easy, but it is not impossible.
I am doing my flying training while holding a 9-5 job, and soon to start university part-time evenings, in terms of time flexibility I have to admit that I do have great manager who is willing to help, I have offered to take him up during one of my flying lessons and he is very keen on the idea, I have 5 weeks off holiday entitlement plus another extra week for doing a couple of hours one Saturday per month, so in total 6 weeks. I believe it can be done if one is good with time management, planning and is willing to make sacrifices in order to achieve the ultimate goal of becoming a Pilot, no one will say it will be easy, but it is not impossible.
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Shift work is how I managed to get it done (ATPL's, and CPL/IR/MCC) unpaid leave was also negotiated for the final part of the IR. It's not an easy route but some of us have no choice. It took me 2.5 years to get through what I thought would take me 18mts But it makes the reward of blasting off down the runway for a 4 sector day all the sweeter! Good luck and persistence definately pays off.
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I work in a small company and so extra hours are every day common, however I was able to shoehorn 2-3 Hr a day for ATPLs, I already have PPL. I managed to get a 1.5 month leave to finish the exams and hour building, when I come back I will work on a 4 day/week basis leaving 3 days for training.
I think it really depends on the company needs, we are working shifts so there is always a mean to sort things out.
I got the feeling from other posts that IR would preferably not be done part time as it can be tough
I think it really depends on the company needs, we are working shifts so there is always a mean to sort things out.
I got the feeling from other posts that IR would preferably not be done part time as it can be tough
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Thanks for the replies. I'm now considering telling my employer what I'm up to - nearer the IR/CPL stage anyway. I've figured out that I won't get my PPL till mid 2007, so can probably do 1 set of ATPLs in 2007, then the other 2 in 2008. If I can save up enough leave (I can only carry over 7 days per year) then I'll start the IR in 2008 and by that stage will know how things stand with my boss.
I guess if I can't get a couple of months unpaid leave then I'll just have to resign and hopefully get another job afterwards... unlikely to walk straight into a flying job me thinks Over the last week I have seriously been considering chucking the job, selling the flat and going integrated... but then I'd be homeless and skint and possibly unemployed..... It would be so much quicker though - going the modular route is going to take me 4 years at the very least.
I guess if I can't get a couple of months unpaid leave then I'll just have to resign and hopefully get another job afterwards... unlikely to walk straight into a flying job me thinks
Over the last week I have seriously been considering chucking the job, selling the flat and going integrated... but then I'd be homeless and skint and possibly unemployed..... It would be so much quicker though - going the modular route is going to take me 4 years at the very least.
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If you have the flat and can afford to chuck in the job etc, sell the flat and go integrated to Jerez and get it over with - I don't think you will do anything for your continuity by your plan below, as a full time job is not really compatible with intensive training.
What sort of job is it that you do?
I know you are looking for advice on the modular route, but hear me out for a few posts.
What sort of job is it that you do?
I know you are looking for advice on the modular route, but hear me out for a few posts.
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I'm a software developer... only been doing it for about a year so the money isn't fantastic. I think I 'd probably get about £20k "profit" from the flat, so if I was to take £40 of debt and then not get an airline job straight away, I wouldn't be able to make the loan payments as well as rent/mortgage, bills etc on my current salary. Oh and I need my parent's permissioin legally before I can sell the flat (they paid the deposit) and I know they won't agree!
If I go modular and can keep my job then I can pretty much fund everything apart from the IR as I go along. (My parents are more likely to contribute something if they know I'm not "throwing myself off the housing ladder" and "throwing away a perfectly good career" (we've talked extensively about this!)) So if I took say 3 months unpaid leave from work, I'd get the IR, the CPL and maybe MCC etc all done and only have maybe £20k of debt which is manageable on my current salary if I don't get a flying job.
I'd love to go integrated for the amount of time it takes, but even if I had the money, I think I'd grudge paying £60k for something which costs £35k on the modular route....
If I go modular and can keep my job then I can pretty much fund everything apart from the IR as I go along. (My parents are more likely to contribute something if they know I'm not "throwing myself off the housing ladder" and "throwing away a perfectly good career" (we've talked extensively about this!)) So if I took say 3 months unpaid leave from work, I'd get the IR, the CPL and maybe MCC etc all done and only have maybe £20k of debt which is manageable on my current salary if I don't get a flying job.
I'd love to go integrated for the amount of time it takes, but even if I had the money, I think I'd grudge paying £60k for something which costs £35k on the modular route....
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You're 21 and would prefer to go modular - why not apply to GAPAN for a couple of years for the Somers scholarship (you have just missed this year), apply to the Women Pilots Association for a bursury (not sure of name or what is available but it exists), and just work for a year or so more, while trying to do anything aviation that you can to build the CV.
Though I realise that the lure of aviation is appealling and you can work while you wait for a job, you are still young, if your age in your details on the left is correct!
Move to an aviation software company maybe - unless you are very secure in yours perhaps - such as a GDS like Cendant, Sabre, Amadeus?
Though I realise that the lure of aviation is appealling and you can work while you wait for a job, you are still young, if your age in your details on the left is correct!
Move to an aviation software company maybe - unless you are very secure in yours perhaps - such as a GDS like Cendant, Sabre, Amadeus?
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Yep, my age is correct! Although only for another week or so 
My PPL will take at least another year, so after that I will be applying to any scholarships I can find... I quite fancy the highland airways or air atlantique one... I'm not desperate to go straight for a jet job. I pretty much have the cash saved up for the PPL, so this year and the year when I do ATPL exams I will be able to keep saving. Then if I dont' get a scholarship/sponsorship (what are the chances!) then I may well give up my job and at least go full time modular. I have plenty of time to decide - just trying to get as much advice on all the options as possible.
I'd love to move to an aviation software company... I've never managed to find out the names of any, so thank you! I will look into it.
My PPL will take at least another year, so after that I will be applying to any scholarships I can find... I quite fancy the highland airways or air atlantique one... I'm not desperate to go straight for a jet job. I pretty much have the cash saved up for the PPL, so this year and the year when I do ATPL exams I will be able to keep saving. Then if I dont' get a scholarship/sponsorship (what are the chances!) then I may well give up my job and at least go full time modular. I have plenty of time to decide - just trying to get as much advice on all the options as possible.I'd love to move to an aviation software company... I've never managed to find out the names of any, so thank you! I will look into it.
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Well that would set you into the right position if once you finish the PPL and get a Class 1, you go for GAPAN for example next May/June, use the BWPA (on thought I think it is the British Women Pilots Association) etc.
At least you have plently of time to decide as you say - just bear in mind that although you might not be desperate to get a jet job now, and prop flying is interesting, jet jobs pay the salaries that allow you to get out of debt and set up home, and live more than thinking about the next repayment.
How about SITA as well for software?
At least you have plently of time to decide as you say - just bear in mind that although you might not be desperate to get a jet job now, and prop flying is interesting, jet jobs pay the salaries that allow you to get out of debt and set up home, and live more than thinking about the next repayment.
How about SITA as well for software?
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Hi wannabe,
I am in similar suituation as of you. Wanted to become a pilot eversince from childhood, completed my Bachelors in Aeronautical Engg and even completed my Masters in Airport Planning & Management. I am 24, at the moment, I am working as a Airport Engineer for one of airport consultancy. I am preparing for ground exams for PPL. Hopefully task is complete my exams before Dec/2006. Flying will be completed by July/2007 for PPL.I work seven days and use my lunch breaks and evenings to study for ground exams.
I believe, if you want to achieve something then, you will do it, no matter wat it takes it. Recently went to get my JAA Class 1 on my birthday by taking day off from work.
Applied to GAPAN for ATPL scholarship and recieved a turning down letter for next interview. Hoping to apply next year again. My advise to you is just remain motivated and you will achieve what you want.
Nyways good luck.
Sam
I am in similar suituation as of you. Wanted to become a pilot eversince from childhood, completed my Bachelors in Aeronautical Engg and even completed my Masters in Airport Planning & Management. I am 24, at the moment, I am working as a Airport Engineer for one of airport consultancy. I am preparing for ground exams for PPL. Hopefully task is complete my exams before Dec/2006. Flying will be completed by July/2007 for PPL.I work seven days and use my lunch breaks and evenings to study for ground exams.
I believe, if you want to achieve something then, you will do it, no matter wat it takes it. Recently went to get my JAA Class 1 on my birthday by taking day off from work.
Applied to GAPAN for ATPL scholarship and recieved a turning down letter for next interview. Hoping to apply next year again. My advise to you is just remain motivated and you will achieve what you want.
Nyways good luck.
Sam
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Working while modular
I've done it, got the t-shirt.
I'm still employed in current my day job, looking for FO positions (watch this space! ). Finished MCC about 3 weeks ago.
I did the whole lot part time around my day job. Took vacations for the exams, and brush up weeks. I chose London Met as they do 3 modules with 1 week brush ups on each (actually 3 x 4 day) so the number of days off for that was minimal, plus I work in East London so could dovetail some of the exams around work. (on days where there was one exam, or two short ones, I took a 1/2 day off, popped into London Met, took the exam and went back to work).
This I did last year with the final set of exams early this year using holiday carried over from 2005.
I did the CPL flight training weekends and some evenings, and I did the IR kind of full time, but a 4-6pm or 6-8pm training slot each day, and worked 7-3 on those days, so I actually didn't need a whole lot of time off for that. A week of for the MCC actually leaves me with 1/2 of my annual holiday entitlement left right now!
Its hard work and you need to be dedicated, but I came out with high first time passes (>95%) in ATPLs and first times in the flight training.
The upshot of all this is I still have a professional, well paid career whilst looking for the first flying job.
If you want to make it happen, are willing to put the work in and find some training providers which make the logistics simpler, then its possible.
Edit to add - If you are on the housing ladder and already have a career (as opposed to a job) then my advice would be to do everything in your power to keep these. By all means follow your dreams, but also don't sell your future to do so.
Also wheres the rush - if you are 21 then when you were born, I was coming up towards my 'O' levels (too old for GCSE's even!)
I've done it, got the t-shirt.
I'm still employed in current my day job, looking for FO positions (watch this space!
). Finished MCC about 3 weeks ago.I did the whole lot part time around my day job. Took vacations for the exams, and brush up weeks. I chose London Met as they do 3 modules with 1 week brush ups on each (actually 3 x 4 day) so the number of days off for that was minimal, plus I work in East London so could dovetail some of the exams around work. (on days where there was one exam, or two short ones, I took a 1/2 day off, popped into London Met, took the exam and went back to work).
This I did last year with the final set of exams early this year using holiday carried over from 2005.
I did the CPL flight training weekends and some evenings, and I did the IR kind of full time, but a 4-6pm or 6-8pm training slot each day, and worked 7-3 on those days, so I actually didn't need a whole lot of time off for that. A week of for the MCC actually leaves me with 1/2 of my annual holiday entitlement left right now!
Its hard work and you need to be dedicated, but I came out with high first time passes (>95%) in ATPLs and first times in the flight training.
The upshot of all this is I still have a professional, well paid career whilst looking for the first flying job.
If you want to make it happen, are willing to put the work in and find some training providers which make the logistics simpler, then its possible.
Edit to add - If you are on the housing ladder and already have a career (as opposed to a job) then my advice would be to do everything in your power to keep these. By all means follow your dreams, but also don't sell your future to do so.
Also wheres the rush - if you are 21 then when you were born, I was coming up towards my 'O' levels (too old for GCSE's even!)
Last edited by AlexL; 3rd Jul 2006 at 10:37.
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I don’t think that I have a great deal to add to this thread.
I completed my training whilst holding down a full time job – also as a Software Engineer. I completed my PPL and hour building at the weekends. I did my groundschool in the evenings after work and used my annual holidays to complete the brush ups and the CAA exams. The CPL and the IR were completed using unpaid leave, although not in the same year and I used annual holiday to complete my MCC. I am soon about to start an FI course. The plan is to do three weeks full time, using this years leave and complete the course at the weekends.
There are a couple of notes of caution that I would sound –
Completing your groundschool in your spare time whilst having a reasonably demanding career will effectively rob you of ‘having a life’ and is a potential relationship killer. It took me two years to do the groundschool, putting in about 4 hours work a night. I basically came in, ate my tea, studied and went to bed. I do not know if there is a Mr Wannabe in your life but living like that is tough. With hindsight I could have done much less work and got through as the brush ups are fantastic – I am one of life’s ‘over preparers’ unfortunately.
Using all of your annual holiday to complete training each year will not endear you to a partner who is less than thrilled about you working every waking hour of the day as you won’t get to take time off together.
Completing the training this way is very longwinded and this is not really what airlines want to see. It took me several years to achieve the final objective. Although the handful of contacts I built along the way have all found airline jobs apart from one (who has already posted on this thread) I would not put money on me doing the same.
I think that you are underestimating the cost of completing this training. There is a longstanding notion within these forums that a modular course costs £35,000 and an integrated course costs £70,000. I have maintained a spreadsheet that records all of my flying and training expenses since my very first PPL lesson (don’t ask why, I think it is the same gene that makes me an ‘over-preparer’) Right now my modular course is topping out at around the cost of your integrated, although that includes all of the flying that I have done (not technically all training) and also the cost of my unpaid leave. I dread to think what the ‘real’ cost of an integrated course is.
If I had my time over, was single and had the money available I would have gone integrated in a heartbeat. Unfortunately it is just not a practical proposition for most of us. If you do elect to stay in full time work and go modular you just have to approach it like you would climbing a mountain – just keep taking one step at a time and eventually you will get to the top.
I completed my training whilst holding down a full time job – also as a Software Engineer. I completed my PPL and hour building at the weekends. I did my groundschool in the evenings after work and used my annual holidays to complete the brush ups and the CAA exams. The CPL and the IR were completed using unpaid leave, although not in the same year and I used annual holiday to complete my MCC. I am soon about to start an FI course. The plan is to do three weeks full time, using this years leave and complete the course at the weekends.
There are a couple of notes of caution that I would sound –
Completing your groundschool in your spare time whilst having a reasonably demanding career will effectively rob you of ‘having a life’ and is a potential relationship killer. It took me two years to do the groundschool, putting in about 4 hours work a night. I basically came in, ate my tea, studied and went to bed. I do not know if there is a Mr Wannabe in your life but living like that is tough. With hindsight I could have done much less work and got through as the brush ups are fantastic – I am one of life’s ‘over preparers’ unfortunately.
Using all of your annual holiday to complete training each year will not endear you to a partner who is less than thrilled about you working every waking hour of the day as you won’t get to take time off together.
Completing the training this way is very longwinded and this is not really what airlines want to see. It took me several years to achieve the final objective. Although the handful of contacts I built along the way have all found airline jobs apart from one (who has already posted on this thread) I would not put money on me doing the same.
I think that you are underestimating the cost of completing this training. There is a longstanding notion within these forums that a modular course costs £35,000 and an integrated course costs £70,000. I have maintained a spreadsheet that records all of my flying and training expenses since my very first PPL lesson (don’t ask why, I think it is the same gene that makes me an ‘over-preparer’) Right now my modular course is topping out at around the cost of your integrated, although that includes all of the flying that I have done (not technically all training) and also the cost of my unpaid leave. I dread to think what the ‘real’ cost of an integrated course is.
If I had my time over, was single and had the money available I would have gone integrated in a heartbeat. Unfortunately it is just not a practical proposition for most of us. If you do elect to stay in full time work and go modular you just have to approach it like you would climbing a mountain – just keep taking one step at a time and eventually you will get to the top.
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Originally Posted by AlexL
If you are on the housing ladder and already have a career (as opposed to a job) then my advice would be to do everything in your power to keep these.
Living up here in Edinburgh doesn't give much opportunity for doing things part time unfortunately. I know GCNS in glasgow does the ATPL distance learning course, so going there would cut down on the amount of leave needed, but I would have to travel somewhere south to do the flying part - more money, more time!
Rote 8 - I'm single, so working every waking hour doesn't bother me too much. I found uni quite hard going and found I was doing the come in from lectures, eat dinner infront of pc, work until 2am, go to bed, get up, go to uni, come back, eat.... I didn't enjoy it much, but if I could do it once, then I can do again...
I have to say I think my thinking is gradually turning to either negotiating unpaid leave, or leaving my job in a couple of years and doing the CPL/IR/MCC full time....
