Licence Conversion to JAA
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Another FAA/JAA Question please
Is it possible for a FAA CPL holder to get just a JAA CPL excluding frozen atpl and what are the requirements to convert as well as the limitations?
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Hi,
Affraid not, you will have to do it in the aircraft, if you had enough time for the ATPL you could do ATPL to ATPL in the sim with a CAA Flight Ops Inspector.
I have just gone through all this in the last couple of weeks.
PM me if you have any other Q's
Affraid not, you will have to do it in the aircraft, if you had enough time for the ATPL you could do ATPL to ATPL in the sim with a CAA Flight Ops Inspector.
I have just gone through all this in the last couple of weeks.
PM me if you have any other Q's
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Realistic number of flying hours for the JAA conversion
Hey the reason that I'm writing is that in a month and half I plan to finish writing all 14 JAA exams in england, and then plan to do the flying part of my conversion. I know what the requirements are minimum 5 hours for the CPL, and then flight test, and then the multi flight test, and the 15 IR, and flight test. The questions is I know those are the minimums, but what is the realistic number of flying hours of the minimum I should budget for? thank you
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I would say on average 10 for the Commerical.
20 for the instrument.
A lot of students have the attitude that the conversion will be easy and they will complete in minimum hours. These students often struggle. It's not as easy as people think. There is a big difference between the FAA Commercial and JAA Commercial.
20 for the instrument.
A lot of students have the attitude that the conversion will be easy and they will complete in minimum hours. These students often struggle. It's not as easy as people think. There is a big difference between the FAA Commercial and JAA Commercial.
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I think people need to know the distinguishing facts between the JAA ATPL and FAA ATP.
Firstly in the UK you sit 14 exams of differing length after attaining your PPL normally. In the UK you generally start the IR with slightly higher hours, However upon attaining your CPL/IR you then have a fATPL. This is just a term used for the licence, there is in no effect an offical licence or document from the CAA confirming this status. So, cutting to the chase, in Europe you can fly the big jets in essence with 250ish hours minimum.
You can sit your FAA IR with a minimum of around 90hrs (PPL - min 40 and 50 hours x/c). The US IR is more about the day in question and not practiced to a flying by numbers type process (well I found anyway) as the UK is, you jump in the aircraft and the examiner says, 'have you been here before?', 'nope', 'well lets go' and you pull a SID for your home airport, STAR and VOR-A for Rwy 12 at AAAA, read through it quickly, call clearance for a tower en-route. The US licence tests more understanding of IR principals than the UK one which was more procedural and normally without many changes to the profile you practice in the sim a number of times, you can almost second guess the ATC calls you will receive.
In the US you get things thrown at you in the cockpit and have to make more split decisions i.e. 3 mins from a VOR you will get a 'hold on the 320 radial inbound, standard turns, you are flying on a heading of 020, work out your entry and your hold, situational awareness, etc. I did mine in a C172 and did an instrument approach as part of my Multi PPL to have it added to my licence. The did a CPL Multi (which is under VFR).
The big difference is in the US you aren't awared a ATP until you have 1,500 hours, of which 500 are multi-engine multi crew satisfying a certain weight or type requirement (it escapes me). Upon attaining this you then sit a skills test after already sitting a skills test paper of 100 questions which you did in the preceding 12 months.
Therefore here is my take. In the US you can attain a IR relatively early in your career and can buzz about honing your skills, gradually building up proficency of instrument flying and working up to larger aircraft as you work towards your goal. You then sit a test which is approximatley similar in content, to the UK Multi-IR which you sit in JARland with 250 hours.
Top those who say the US IR is just like an JAR IMC, well not really, maybe halfway between that and a full JAR IR, however it tests different skills to the JAR one. There are no surprises in JAR, plenty in the US, however and ILS here is the same as one over there, planes in UK airspace stall at the same airspeed as they do in the US. The big difference is you sit the major test in Europe generally with 250ish hours and the equivalent in the US with 1,500.
Both have pros and cons. I have my opinion but to avoid a bloodbath I will keep that to myself. I can't be arsed getting into a slanging match as I have my TR LST next week.
Firstly in the UK you sit 14 exams of differing length after attaining your PPL normally. In the UK you generally start the IR with slightly higher hours, However upon attaining your CPL/IR you then have a fATPL. This is just a term used for the licence, there is in no effect an offical licence or document from the CAA confirming this status. So, cutting to the chase, in Europe you can fly the big jets in essence with 250ish hours minimum.
You can sit your FAA IR with a minimum of around 90hrs (PPL - min 40 and 50 hours x/c). The US IR is more about the day in question and not practiced to a flying by numbers type process (well I found anyway) as the UK is, you jump in the aircraft and the examiner says, 'have you been here before?', 'nope', 'well lets go' and you pull a SID for your home airport, STAR and VOR-A for Rwy 12 at AAAA, read through it quickly, call clearance for a tower en-route. The US licence tests more understanding of IR principals than the UK one which was more procedural and normally without many changes to the profile you practice in the sim a number of times, you can almost second guess the ATC calls you will receive.
In the US you get things thrown at you in the cockpit and have to make more split decisions i.e. 3 mins from a VOR you will get a 'hold on the 320 radial inbound, standard turns, you are flying on a heading of 020, work out your entry and your hold, situational awareness, etc. I did mine in a C172 and did an instrument approach as part of my Multi PPL to have it added to my licence. The did a CPL Multi (which is under VFR).
The big difference is in the US you aren't awared a ATP until you have 1,500 hours, of which 500 are multi-engine multi crew satisfying a certain weight or type requirement (it escapes me). Upon attaining this you then sit a skills test after already sitting a skills test paper of 100 questions which you did in the preceding 12 months.
Therefore here is my take. In the US you can attain a IR relatively early in your career and can buzz about honing your skills, gradually building up proficency of instrument flying and working up to larger aircraft as you work towards your goal. You then sit a test which is approximatley similar in content, to the UK Multi-IR which you sit in JARland with 250 hours.
Top those who say the US IR is just like an JAR IMC, well not really, maybe halfway between that and a full JAR IR, however it tests different skills to the JAR one. There are no surprises in JAR, plenty in the US, however and ILS here is the same as one over there, planes in UK airspace stall at the same airspeed as they do in the US. The big difference is you sit the major test in Europe generally with 250ish hours and the equivalent in the US with 1,500.
Both have pros and cons. I have my opinion but to avoid a bloodbath I will keep that to myself. I can't be arsed getting into a slanging match as I have my TR LST next week.
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Some interesting questions at hand here...
first off - converting an FAA CPL to a JAA CPL after sitting the 14 exams can be fairly straight forward...if you do it in the US. From experience I can tell you that doing the CPL conversion in the UK is a totally different can of worms...so don't fall in the "training as required" trap.
Where UK and the US differ most are how the airspace is used, various procedures, and ATC R/T. Just getting used to the UK VFR chart - and learning that an ATZ may (or may not) be a controlled airfield.....or may even be as little as a ground/air radio (why they never managed to differenciate this on the chart is beyond me). Further you have MATZ and regional QNH settings in the UK...something not known for someone with US only experience. Class D airspace is not as friendly in the UK as it is in the US...and you generally have less space to move about on (England is after all not a very big country...considering how many ppl live here - and fly here).
Take it from someone who has gone the route....though the airplane itself flies the same wherever you are - you will have your hand full just remembering all the bits and bobs you need to do - and how the examiner wants you to fly the check ride. Unfortunately that may take more than the "training as required...5 hours...." as everyone seems to be quoting.
There is no JAR IMC....the IMC rating is a UK CAA thing....valid in UK airspace on a G-reg aircraft. And saying that the FAA IR is "halfway between" is not giving it enough justice. The FAA IR is quite equal to the JAA one, and far superior to the IMC rating (which was intended for PPLs..and is a great idea!)...just ask any of the biz-jet pilots buzzing around in their N-reg business jets in the UK.
If you do have an FAA IR though - you can paper convert it to a CAA IMC rating just by filling in the right forms...provided it is current within the past 12 months.
I've done my fair share of flying under both systems - instructed under both - been lost in both....but always found my way back. And I love them both for what they are. In the end I think this whole FAA, JAA debate is a bit far fetched....all that matters is where you wish to fly in the end. If that's Europe - fine; get the JAR stuff.....you will need it. If you plan to stay in the states....well; no way about it without the FAA stuff.
Remember that JAA is just as useless for commercial flying in the states as the FAA is in the UK....maybe even more so - yet to see a G-reg business jet in the US :P
first off - converting an FAA CPL to a JAA CPL after sitting the 14 exams can be fairly straight forward...if you do it in the US. From experience I can tell you that doing the CPL conversion in the UK is a totally different can of worms...so don't fall in the "training as required" trap.
Where UK and the US differ most are how the airspace is used, various procedures, and ATC R/T. Just getting used to the UK VFR chart - and learning that an ATZ may (or may not) be a controlled airfield.....or may even be as little as a ground/air radio (why they never managed to differenciate this on the chart is beyond me). Further you have MATZ and regional QNH settings in the UK...something not known for someone with US only experience. Class D airspace is not as friendly in the UK as it is in the US...and you generally have less space to move about on (England is after all not a very big country...considering how many ppl live here - and fly here).
Take it from someone who has gone the route....though the airplane itself flies the same wherever you are - you will have your hand full just remembering all the bits and bobs you need to do - and how the examiner wants you to fly the check ride. Unfortunately that may take more than the "training as required...5 hours...." as everyone seems to be quoting.
Top those who say the US IR is just like an JAR IMC, well not really, maybe halfway between that and a full JAR IR, however it tests different skills to the JAR one.
If you do have an FAA IR though - you can paper convert it to a CAA IMC rating just by filling in the right forms...provided it is current within the past 12 months.
I've done my fair share of flying under both systems - instructed under both - been lost in both....but always found my way back. And I love them both for what they are. In the end I think this whole FAA, JAA debate is a bit far fetched....all that matters is where you wish to fly in the end. If that's Europe - fine; get the JAR stuff.....you will need it. If you plan to stay in the states....well; no way about it without the FAA stuff.
Remember that JAA is just as useless for commercial flying in the states as the FAA is in the UK....maybe even more so - yet to see a G-reg business jet in the US :P
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Finals19,
If the pm you sent to thomasz is regarding the minimum hours required for the jar conversion I am sure there are a few of us here interested to find out what you have to say...At least I know I am!
Could you please either write the info here for the public or send me a pm too?
Unless offcourse it is irrelevant to the topic, in which case I sincerely apologise!
Cheers!
If the pm you sent to thomasz is regarding the minimum hours required for the jar conversion I am sure there are a few of us here interested to find out what you have to say...At least I know I am!
Could you please either write the info here for the public or send me a pm too?
Unless offcourse it is irrelevant to the topic, in which case I sincerely apologise!
Cheers!
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Canadian PPL -> JAA CPL
I am a British Canadian who holds a canadian PPL. With my British citizenship I was looking at converting over to JAA licenses and was looking for some help as to how this works and also what the industry is like over in Europe.
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
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Well, with only a PPL you will be not be given much, if any credit, although I believe a PPL is a minimum requirement to start your ATPL (or CPL) groundschool. I take it you are aware that over here, we tend to do all 14 Atpl exams to begin with rather than a CPL (some may do about 12 exams for CPL only - I think), and then go and do ATPL with 1500+ hours like in Canada.
My advice would be to do your Canadian CPL and Multi IFR (known over here as MEIR) and then convert them over here. For the CPL you only need to take the flight test (obvioulsy would need some prep with instructors etc) and for the MEIR you have to do a minimum of 15 hours training before flight test, of which 10 can be FNPTII sim and 5 in ME a/c.
It's been over 4 years now since I was in Canada and I can't comment on the industry over there, but here in the UK it is bouyant, so they tell me, but I've not had one interview yet. However, I'm 40 and you're 19, presumably with no wife and kids and that goes a long way to enable you to be flexible and mobile as well as appear less of a training risk to airlines !
Not sure how long you've been visiting this site for but all the info is on here if you look/do searches.
Good luck.
CG
My advice would be to do your Canadian CPL and Multi IFR (known over here as MEIR) and then convert them over here. For the CPL you only need to take the flight test (obvioulsy would need some prep with instructors etc) and for the MEIR you have to do a minimum of 15 hours training before flight test, of which 10 can be FNPTII sim and 5 in ME a/c.
It's been over 4 years now since I was in Canada and I can't comment on the industry over there, but here in the UK it is bouyant, so they tell me, but I've not had one interview yet. However, I'm 40 and you're 19, presumably with no wife and kids and that goes a long way to enable you to be flexible and mobile as well as appear less of a training risk to airlines !
Not sure how long you've been visiting this site for but all the info is on here if you look/do searches.
Good luck.
CG
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That will get you a CPL/IR, but not an ATPL.
If you do the conversion route, you will still need to do the ATPL theory. For this you will get a 200 hours reduction for holding a JAA CPL and a further 200 hours for a JAA IR. IIRC the total ATPL theory is 650 hours. So factor in 250 hurs study into the above suggestion, that's about 3 months full-time I reckon.
If you do the conversion route, you will still need to do the ATPL theory. For this you will get a 200 hours reduction for holding a JAA CPL and a further 200 hours for a JAA IR. IIRC the total ATPL theory is 650 hours. So factor in 250 hurs study into the above suggestion, that's about 3 months full-time I reckon.
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OZ to UK license conversion
Hi everyone,
First of sorry if I have posted this in the wrong section. My question is in regards to finding work in the UK. I currently fly in Australia, I have 1000hrs MECIR and ATPL subjects. I understand I'd need to do the JAA theory. Would I need to do all of the exams and what would the job propects be with the above quals. I also have dual citizenship. Thanks in advance for any replies.
Cheers
Jenko
First of sorry if I have posted this in the wrong section. My question is in regards to finding work in the UK. I currently fly in Australia, I have 1000hrs MECIR and ATPL subjects. I understand I'd need to do the JAA theory. Would I need to do all of the exams and what would the job propects be with the above quals. I also have dual citizenship. Thanks in advance for any replies.
Cheers
Jenko
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I think you will need to complete and approved 650 hour groundschool and pass all 14 ATPL exams. This is what I am doing at the moment.
I believe to be exempted from the full groundschool you need more than 1500 hours on two-pilot aircraft, and you still need to pass the 14 exams. Great huh!?
I can't help you regarding the work situation, although it's got to be better than here.
Cheers,
Ben.
I believe to be exempted from the full groundschool you need more than 1500 hours on two-pilot aircraft, and you still need to pass the 14 exams. Great huh!?
I can't help you regarding the work situation, although it's got to be better than here.
Cheers,
Ben.
Last edited by Benny71; 4th Apr 2007 at 13:03.
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If you are thinking of moving to Europe to fly I would suggest not worrying about the Aust ATPL subjects, and go straight for the UK JAA ATPL theory credits, then convert your Aust CPL to a frozen UK ATPL.
If you eventually want to return to Oz I think you would only have to sit the ATPL Air Law exam to convert your UK ATPL to an Australian ATPL.
If you eventually want to return to Oz I think you would only have to sit the ATPL Air Law exam to convert your UK ATPL to an Australian ATPL.
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You really do have your work cut out for you. I'm married to an Italian citizen and I've got visa issues to overcome until my citizenship application is processed. It just makes it infinitely harder unless you hold an EU passport.
Do you have any European heritage, Irish or British perhaps? You might have the right to abode in the UK if your granparents were British for example.
Also, I hope you've got your finances sorted. Converting your licence in the UK is going to cost you big time if you're paying with Ozzie dollars. The CAA's charged compared to the CASA's will leave you in shock. Shame the opportunities aren't that great in Aus but my wife and I are looking on this being a hopefully great adventure.
PM me if I can be of any help.
Do you have any European heritage, Irish or British perhaps? You might have the right to abode in the UK if your granparents were British for example.
Also, I hope you've got your finances sorted. Converting your licence in the UK is going to cost you big time if you're paying with Ozzie dollars. The CAA's charged compared to the CASA's will leave you in shock. Shame the opportunities aren't that great in Aus but my wife and I are looking on this being a hopefully great adventure.
PM me if I can be of any help.
Last edited by Benny71; 5th Apr 2007 at 09:29.
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Ozy to Pohmy
hey guys wondering if anyone knows what’s involved in converting an oz CPL to British CPL? also have just finished oz ATPL theory would I have to do another JAA ATPL theory or would I be able to get the experience to hold the full oz licence and then get it converted?
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To be exempted from sitting the 14 CAA ATPL exams you need more than 3000 hours on aircraft > 30,000kgs. Even then you still need to pass the Human Performance and Air Law exams.
Otherwise if you have at least 1500 hours on two-pilot aircraft you need to pass all 14 ATPL exams, but are exempted from formal groundcourse component.
If you don't fit into any of the above you need to enrol in a formal groundschool by either distance or full time, and pass the 14 exams.
Cheers.
Otherwise if you have at least 1500 hours on two-pilot aircraft you need to pass all 14 ATPL exams, but are exempted from formal groundcourse component.
If you don't fit into any of the above you need to enrol in a formal groundschool by either distance or full time, and pass the 14 exams.
Cheers.