The kiss of death... ??
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Manchester UK
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The kiss of death... ??
I took the GAPAN aptitude test a couple of years ago, - and to my chagrin only managed an "average" score...
Mucho disappointed and deflated... ( dreams of "the right stuff" evaporating.. )-
Anyway I tend to think that the most important qualities for success are committment, hard work, more hard work and motivation..- its got me within spitting distance of completing ( this year ) a 6 year medical (MBChB) degree and I aint no "natural" scholar.
I suspect there are probably many decent Aviators out there who have been successful - despite a similarly modest aptitude score.. - Am I right... ??
I'm not going to let it put me off... - and flying - eventually in some professional capacity is one more thing I will definitely do in life - sometime !..
Looking forward to hearing from you - and having my feeling concerned -that an average performance on GAPAN isn't the kiss of death to a flying career..
Mucho disappointed and deflated... ( dreams of "the right stuff" evaporating.. )-
Anyway I tend to think that the most important qualities for success are committment, hard work, more hard work and motivation..- its got me within spitting distance of completing ( this year ) a 6 year medical (MBChB) degree and I aint no "natural" scholar.
I suspect there are probably many decent Aviators out there who have been successful - despite a similarly modest aptitude score.. - Am I right... ??
I'm not going to let it put me off... - and flying - eventually in some professional capacity is one more thing I will definitely do in life - sometime !..
Looking forward to hearing from you - and having my feeling concerned -that an average performance on GAPAN isn't the kiss of death to a flying career..
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Mate if there's one thing I can tell you from many many years of instructing and airline flying it's that everyone is 'average'. We all have weaknesses and we all have strengths. I've seen a lot of people who I thought initially had as much natural flying aptitude as a hedgehog, move into the airlines just through sheer hard graft and strength of will. I've also seen people who I thought were naturals, just go and give it all away when the going got a bit tough.
Don't let it get to you honestly, gapan is a bunch of crusty old suit wearing orville-and-wilbur-contemporaries who for reasons known only to themselves seem to enjoy perpetuating the illusion that flying is actually difficult or in some way for the elite. They are far far removed from the reality of 21st century flying training let alone the modern employment market.
Don't let it get to you honestly, gapan is a bunch of crusty old suit wearing orville-and-wilbur-contemporaries who for reasons known only to themselves seem to enjoy perpetuating the illusion that flying is actually difficult or in some way for the elite. They are far far removed from the reality of 21st century flying training let alone the modern employment market.
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A good friend of mine went for the GAPAN tests, only to be told he was 'on the low side of average'. Didn't stop him being called 'well above average' by his flight instructor. The GAPANs are for all intents and purposes useless. God knows how many people have been put off commercial flying careers by these people.
This isn't just secondhand experience, I went myself and was confronted by tests to remember a string of numbers and letter (all with no context, i.e 56473 as opposed to 122.85, DFGDB as opposed to LIFFY). The funniest one was being required to keep a ball in the centre of a screen, and after a minute finding the controls reversed. Fair enough for a test pilot, but not a commercial candidate. I got an 'average, tending to slightly below average' by the way, and so far my instructors seem very pleased with my progress. So it's utter, utter toss. They'd be better off sticking us in front of MS Flight sim - at least that would be more representative.
Actually it was an interesting experience - coming out of the interview to be confronted by one of the owners of a certain flight training organisation (coincidentally one of the GAPAN briefers as well) to see if he could convince me to train with his school, while reeling from the news that I was 'below average'. On hearing this, he muttered that I shouldn't believe everything I hear! Ok he was right, but the connections are clear - get them in, take their money and then sell them a 'solution'.
Ignore their 1950s meanderings and get down to the business of flying and learning - that's the only way you'll know.
This isn't just secondhand experience, I went myself and was confronted by tests to remember a string of numbers and letter (all with no context, i.e 56473 as opposed to 122.85, DFGDB as opposed to LIFFY). The funniest one was being required to keep a ball in the centre of a screen, and after a minute finding the controls reversed. Fair enough for a test pilot, but not a commercial candidate. I got an 'average, tending to slightly below average' by the way, and so far my instructors seem very pleased with my progress. So it's utter, utter toss. They'd be better off sticking us in front of MS Flight sim - at least that would be more representative.
Actually it was an interesting experience - coming out of the interview to be confronted by one of the owners of a certain flight training organisation (coincidentally one of the GAPAN briefers as well) to see if he could convince me to train with his school, while reeling from the news that I was 'below average'. On hearing this, he muttered that I shouldn't believe everything I hear! Ok he was right, but the connections are clear - get them in, take their money and then sell them a 'solution'.
Ignore their 1950s meanderings and get down to the business of flying and learning - that's the only way you'll know.
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Confabulous, the difference between your experience and GAPAN's is that you only have experience of one candidate; they have experience of thousands. The statstical validity of your sample is non-existent; theirs is highly significant. In other words, if it came to deciding whose experience to rely on, you wouldn't feature highly in the shortlist.
That said, the trouble with any large-scale testing is that it tends to produce findings that rely on generalisations - well-founded ones, but generalisations nonetheless. As with all generalisations, there will be exceptions. That doesn't make the generalisation untrue.
GAPAN's tests are the same as those the RAF use, and they have a very high correlation with success in that kind of training. However, very few commercial students undergo a course of training that is as intensive and unforgiving as the RAF's, which means that a lower-aptitude student may well still pass. In fact, with the less-intensive course structure, the less able (by GAPAN's methods) student may well come good. In any case, when you are paying for the course (with some exceptions), many schools will allow you to keep throwing money at them until you pass! As you are the paying customer, how many FIs are going to tell you that you are below average? Not a recipe for continued business success...
Airlines, on the other hand, are more like the RAF. They don't want below-average people on their flight-decks. Their initial type training is intensive and has little flexibility for those who don't come up to speed quickly. If they don't have their own training system, they may not have a choice - until the first linecheck, anyway - but they will always try to get the best people they can. Some use the GAPAN system themselves, others use another way of testing aptitude before a candidate starts training. Such methods are inappropriate for those who've already undergone flying training, but sim checks and other checks achieve the same end.
At the end of the day, these things are just a guide. They are valuable when used in the right way. There is nothing wrong with an assessment of average; after all, you don't have to reveal that assessment to anyone if you don't want to.
Scroggs
That said, the trouble with any large-scale testing is that it tends to produce findings that rely on generalisations - well-founded ones, but generalisations nonetheless. As with all generalisations, there will be exceptions. That doesn't make the generalisation untrue.
GAPAN's tests are the same as those the RAF use, and they have a very high correlation with success in that kind of training. However, very few commercial students undergo a course of training that is as intensive and unforgiving as the RAF's, which means that a lower-aptitude student may well still pass. In fact, with the less-intensive course structure, the less able (by GAPAN's methods) student may well come good. In any case, when you are paying for the course (with some exceptions), many schools will allow you to keep throwing money at them until you pass! As you are the paying customer, how many FIs are going to tell you that you are below average? Not a recipe for continued business success...
Airlines, on the other hand, are more like the RAF. They don't want below-average people on their flight-decks. Their initial type training is intensive and has little flexibility for those who don't come up to speed quickly. If they don't have their own training system, they may not have a choice - until the first linecheck, anyway - but they will always try to get the best people they can. Some use the GAPAN system themselves, others use another way of testing aptitude before a candidate starts training. Such methods are inappropriate for those who've already undergone flying training, but sim checks and other checks achieve the same end.
At the end of the day, these things are just a guide. They are valuable when used in the right way. There is nothing wrong with an assessment of average; after all, you don't have to reveal that assessment to anyone if you don't want to.
Scroggs
